News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)  (Read 254755 times)

Zerox

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #240 on: November 29, 2010, 01:17:46 am »
Ah yay a release with some export functionality I'm quite excited. Though admittedly without the ability to view DS models at all in this version it's not as useful to me. Though progress is always welcomed in any area. Thanks Low Lines.

MegamanX

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
    • View Profile
    • X Translations
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #241 on: November 29, 2010, 05:19:40 am »
It doesn't close on me now when I open a game with it.  That's cool.  Wish there was more I could do with it.  The few things I have don't have any of the supported file formats.  Haha.  Keep up the good work.

Lexou

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • a mantaray
    • View Profile
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #242 on: November 29, 2010, 03:54:19 pm »
So, I'm guessing this means you completely abandoned 3d support... :'(

Kudos, though, for the release.

Low Lines

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
    • lowlines
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #243 on: November 29, 2010, 04:11:09 pm »
So, I'm guessing this means you completely abandoned 3d support... :'(

Kudos, though, for the release.
Not at all...A few posts back I stated my milestones and what I wanted to have done before I released the next version. The things I wanted to achieve are mostly done now, which means it was time to release it. The aim here is to start releasing more frequent builds with small updates as opposed to one or two major updates every 2-3 months like I have been. Now I'm not saying I'm going to be releasing weekly builds or anything like that, but as soon as I do anything significant, I'll release it so people can use it.

3D support is the next thing on my list, in fact I'm working on textures right now...Sorry if I confused you :thumbsup:

Koetsu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #244 on: November 29, 2010, 07:04:20 pm »
When you get to the motions, the 3D files I sent you a couple months ago should still be useful. Really standard DS stuff.

Rhys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
    • CN
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #245 on: November 29, 2010, 07:26:37 pm »
You're like a programming god Low Lines XD how did you manage to figure out the formats for all of these files? I really struggle to work out what it all means when looking at it in a hex editor.

Low Lines

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
    • lowlines
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #246 on: November 29, 2010, 11:24:54 pm »
@Rhys
I think in fact only about 5-10% of the figuring out was done by me, the rest is off of docs other people have written, with a BIG kudos to Garyong who's been helping me figure out the sprite formats. Understanding how to read the hex is something that takes a while, though it helps to have a decent hex editor too! My app's hex editor sucks, but hopefully that will get better in the future!

@Koetsu
NSMB, Ben 10, Harvest Moon, Pokemon, and Zelda are my prime resources for debugging 3D stuff, mostly because they've got a wide variety of all the 3D file types, which are easy to locate since I've memorized the rom layouts. There were also some models from Ben 10 which still weren't rendering properly in the old build (such as Hex). Harvest Moon also has the most warped bones list which require stuff to be rendered in a specific order.

I think it's going to be a lot of work just getting Textures and Models supported, so motions/animations are still a fair way off yet :p

@Status
Textures are taking a while, mostly because I have to improve the data structure for graphics to allow for non-paletted/compressed/etc formats, as well as accessing internal assets, I've also been going over and updating the spec now that I'm a bit better at understanding the file structures.

You can view the updated spec here, and I haven't updated any of the 2D docs, just in case anyone checks :p

Toa of Mirrors

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #247 on: November 30, 2010, 03:08:41 pm »
How come 2.5 and 3.0 were steps down? I thought we'd have more ability to work with MDL0s, not less! With my Java decompiler I can read the class codes myself, but I still can't rig it to both be able to view NSBMDs with custom bone opcodes correctly (2.0) AND have the ability to export the files in some way (0.2, 3.0?). Is there any way to just make 0.2 able to read BMD0s like 2.0 and still be able to export the models with 3D Via?

I'm sorry I upset the topic starter. I really don't understand the program at all.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 09:54:31 pm by Toa of Mirrors »

Low Lines

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
    • lowlines
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #248 on: November 30, 2010, 04:07:59 pm »
How come 2.5 and 3.0 were steps down? I thought we'd have more ability to work with MDL0s, not less! With my Java decompiler I can read the class codes myself, but I still can't rig it to both be able to view NSBMDs with custom bone opcodes correctly (2.0) AND have the ability to export the files in some way (0.2, 3.0?). Is there any way to just make 0.2 able to read BMD0s like 2.0 and still be able to export the models with 3D Via?
Okay this isn't even written nicely. Not only have you shown that you have not read anything from this thread (which has constantly talked about this), but you have also quite bluntly pissed on all the work that has been done to get to 3.0. Yes it doesn't support 3D stuff at this time, but the interface and 2D format support cannot be a step down from previous versions since with Garyong's help, we've gotten a much more complete spec on most of the formats than what I had before. I know that some people don't give a rats arse about anything but exporting models, and I think that if its such a big deal, that they should write their own programs or just wait, instead of trying to hack my program to do something it can't. People are welcome to complain, but please make sure you READ THE THREAD before complaining like this, it isn't fair on me and I'm sure no one else likes to read stuff like this.

Toa of Mirrors

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #249 on: November 30, 2010, 04:52:13 pm »
I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to upset anyone, I just was looking for some way to convert BMD0s to other meshes. Why is it that everyone becomes angered whenever I inquire about programming methodology?

Ryusui

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4989
  • It's the greatest day.
    • View Profile
    • Tumblr
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #250 on: November 30, 2010, 05:03:42 pm »
Legit complaint, incendiary tone. NSBMD support is coming; he already said it's the next thing he'll be working on. Be patient.
In the event of a firestorm, the salad bar will remain open.

Rhys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
    • CN
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #251 on: November 30, 2010, 05:12:48 pm »
also he made it quite clear he doesn't want people decompiling his code, so don't be surprised if he refuses to help you

Toa of Mirrors

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #252 on: November 30, 2010, 05:15:59 pm »
It doesn't matter, since I can't make heads or tails of it anyway.  God, I feel so foolish now. :banghead:

Low Lines

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
    • lowlines
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #253 on: December 01, 2010, 07:21:52 pm »
Support for viewing textures in both NSBTX & NSBMD files has been added. However it seems that palettes and textures can be clones of the same data, which is also probably likely for other formats as well. At the moment I've only implemented it when decoding palettes because the size/end offset isn't specified in the data structure, so it would normally crash if the next palette offset is before the current one (when using the next palette offset to calculate the palette size). The associated texture is also generally cloned whenever there is an instance of a cloned palette.

Does anyone know of an open source (or well documented) model format that supports bones? I've been looking around and as far as I can tell only the major proprietary formats actually support them, meaning the really complex files with no documentation :banghead:.

Ryusui

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4989
  • It's the greatest day.
    • View Profile
    • Tumblr
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #254 on: December 01, 2010, 07:55:46 pm »
Does this help any?

http://www.anim8or.com/resources/an8_format.txt

I'm still looking.
In the event of a firestorm, the salad bar will remain open.

Low Lines

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
    • lowlines
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #255 on: December 01, 2010, 08:07:43 pm »
Wells what would be ideal is if there's one that can be opened by proper 3D editors, or else exporting them to another format would be pointless. The other alternative I can think of is writing a custom I/O plugin for those apps, with possibly a custom bones format or something, though I only know my basic way around 3D editors and have not touched the scripts either, so that would be beyond me. IIRC someone wrote an importer script for gamecube models?

[edit]

The Maya ASCII format doesn't look too hard to write an exporter for, however I think that it is limited to Maya.
FBX seems to be openable by both Maya and 3DS Max, and it does have an ASCII version also. Probably the best option out of what I can find so far. But if people know of better options, I'm all ears...
I suppose what the real question is, which apps do people use? Does anyone use Blender?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 08:35:10 pm by Low Lines »

Rhys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
    • CN
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #256 on: December 01, 2010, 09:03:31 pm »
What about Obj? As far as I know pretty much every 3D editor supports it, so it'd be ideal for exporting to, no idea if it supports bones though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obj

Low Lines

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
    • lowlines
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #257 on: December 01, 2010, 09:43:17 pm »
Quote from: Wikipedia
The OBJ file format is a simple data-format that represents 3D geometry alone — namely, the position of each vertex, the UV position of each texture coordinate vertex, normals, and the faces that make each polygon defined as a list of vertices, and texture vertices. Vertices are stored in a counter-clockwise order by default, making explicit declaration of normals unnecessary.

Unless I've read it wrong, that means it only stores the geometry. I'm definitely going to try and support 3DS and Obj, since they're like the most common formats on the net, people will just have to realize that these formats do not export bones/joints.

I've got the 3D UI up and running. It was mostly just a copy and paste job from my old code, however I really have to rethink my data structures. I also figured out how to apply on-screen information, which is done by simply painting over the top of the 3d Panel instead of relying on the JOGL libraries. It's actually much better since its not limited to the basic text drawing methods plus I can also paint graphics etc on top if I choose. Am also experimenting with displaying multiple camera views, though its not a focus at the moment so it will probably be disabled in the next build...But just something to maybe look forward to in the future :)


It is going to take time to properly plan out the data structures, plus it looks like I'll have other (paid) work to do during most of the day starting from next monday up until I go back to uni, so I will probably have less time to spend working on it. I do plan to work on this as much as possible in my free time though, so never fear :)

Tater Bear

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #258 on: December 01, 2010, 10:42:57 pm »
I know next to nothing about 3D stuff, but I read an article about the industries leaders wanting to create a universal 3D file format.
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-363.htm <--- That is the format.
http://www.web3d.org/x3d/specifications/x3d/ <--- Here is another popular file format.

BRPXQZME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
  • じー
    • View Profile
    • The BRPXQZME Network
Re: The Console Tool (by Low Lines)
« Reply #259 on: December 01, 2010, 11:32:08 pm »
Remember VRML? No? Good.
we are in a horrible and deadly danger