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Author Topic: [Fangame] Megaman: Power Up!! (New title, New format)  (Read 100883 times)

Disch

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2008, 09:32:05 am »
I think that stuffmade with famitracker is compatible ith any game that has a standard soud system i.e. no special chips, which MM5 doesn't.

I havn't studied the mm5 sound system fully yet, so I don't really know.

There isn't really a "standard sound system" when it comes to NES games.  Each game has a music driver which may be unique to that game.  Although I believe MM5 has an engine that is shared by several Capcom titles.

Anyway, my point is you probably won't be able to use something like famitracker unless you cut up and rework its driver to match MM5.  There's more to being compatible than just not using the extra sound chips.  You have to consider RAM conflicts, code execution time (somewhat -- Famitracker is probably quite a bit slower than what MM5 does, since it has more features), and last but certainly not least, sound effects.

In any event.. getting a pre-made tracker to work would probably be more trouble than it's worth, so I'd scrap that idea.  In all likelyhood you'll have to do this the old fashioned way:  edit the score in a hex editor.  I'm sure MM5's format is documented somewhere -- I recall there being an incomplete MM3 music editor -- and I'm reasonably sure MM5 uses the exact same engine (MM3-MM6 all share the same engine, iirc, along with other capcom titles like Little Mermaid and others I can't remember now but bbitmaster has a big list of).

Piotyr

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2008, 12:12:45 pm »
Seems like a pretty cool idea. Although I wonder why so many people are taking the newer Megaman games and downgrading the graphics to 8 Bit. I would have expected someone to actually take a game like Rockman and Forte and redo a classic Megaman game in the new style.

With rockman 7 its because it ended up a bit laggy thanks to limits in the hardware not overcome till rockman and forte.
I would like to see a 7 remake in rockman and forte or even a fix to 7 to make it not lag up at points.
Also many believe that megaman lost something in going from 8 to 16bit.
Just like they believe that megaman x lost something in going to the playstation.

johnny

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2008, 12:49:22 pm »
Seems like a pretty cool idea. Although I wonder why so many people are taking the newer Megaman games and downgrading the graphics to 8 Bit. I would have expected someone to actually take a game like Rockman and Forte and redo a classic Megaman game in the new style.

With rockman 7 its because it ended up a bit laggy thanks to limits in the hardware not overcome till rockman and forte.
I would like to see a 7 remake in rockman and forte or even a fix to 7 to make it not lag up at points.
Also many believe that megaman lost something in going from 8 to 16bit.
Just like they believe that megaman x lost something in going to the playstation.

Well the only thing I can see being a difficulty is the fact that Rockman and Forte has the stage select screen set up like a flow chart. Its not the normal stage select screens. Also in many Megaman games there are no intro stages and halfway point stages. The only Megaman games that have this are Megaman 7, 8, Rockman and Forte, and Powered Up. So I guess remaking any other Megaman game in the Rockman and Forte style other than 7, would probably be a huge project.

As for Megaman losing something it has nothing to do with graphics IMO. Think about Castlevania on the NES and Super Castlevania 4 on the SNES. Both awesome games where even the upgrade in graphics took nothing away from it. With Megaman, I think it has to do with adding in stuff by default to make it really complex and rediculous, such as all the side quests like collecting letters, CDs and other hidden useless items. Also the annoying Rush BS, Beat, Auto, Roll Shop and other stuff whereas before that the concept of Megaman was fairly simple. Which is where Megaman 9 went right. It was simple yet the game was very challenging. Also some people claim when they added slides and charge shots it made the game too easy for some. Although to be honest I found Megaman 2 to be alot easier than most of the Megaman games which came afterwards. But anyways I think people liked Megaman 9 because of its strong similarity to Megaman 2. Listen to alot of the music which is the same as Megaman 2. Also if you listen to Concrete Man's stage music, its very reminiscent of Wood Man's Stage. Especially at the very beginning.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 01:01:12 pm by johnny »

Vanya

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2008, 11:44:48 pm »
I think that stuffmade with famitracker is compatible ith any game that has a standard soud system i.e. no special chips, which MM5 doesn't.

I havn't studied the mm5 sound system fully yet, so I don't really know.

There isn't really a "standard sound system" when it comes to NES games.  Each game has a music driver which may be unique to that game.  Although I believe MM5 has an engine that is shared by several Capcom titles.

Anyway, my point is you probably won't be able to use something like famitracker unless you cut up and rework its driver to match MM5.  There's more to being compatible than just not using the extra sound chips.  You have to consider RAM conflicts, code execution time (somewhat -- Famitracker is probably quite a bit slower than what MM5 does, since it has more features), and last but certainly not least, sound effects.

In any event.. getting a pre-made tracker to work would probably be more trouble than it's worth, so I'd scrap that idea.  In all likelyhood you'll have to do this the old fashioned way:  edit the score in a hex editor.  I'm sure MM5's format is documented somewhere -- I recall there being an incomplete MM3 music editor -- and I'm reasonably sure MM5 uses the exact same engine (MM3-MM6 all share the same engine, iirc, along with other capcom titles like Little Mermaid and others I can't remember now but bbitmaster has a big list of).

Those are some very good points there.
I'm currently taking a break from this project to in order to concentrate on my school work for the rest of the year. I'll be back with some sort of an update in early January '09. In the mean time I'll look into the music stuff in my free time.

Until next time, Happy Holidays!
^_^

SeraphSight

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2008, 03:07:05 am »
If we're going on megaman rants, i can contribute too! 

I always liked 1-6, 9, and x1-3.  for some reason, when they gave the floor a 3d feel, it made it feel different, and not in a good way.  7-forte, and x4+ had the odd feeling, though x4 felt better due to zero being awesome and not getting an overpowered double-buster-saberwave combo, and was actually made into full other character unlike in x3 where he was only a stagerunner, and even then X got better eventually.

I wish i could see x4 and up in the x1-3 snes style, it worked really well, in my opinion. 

oh, and while i'm just being an opinion-giver, capcom, toss Axl plz.



Otherwise, i'm keeping an eye on this project, looks good, real good.

johnny

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2008, 12:54:20 pm »
If we're going on megaman rants, i can contribute too! 

I always liked 1-6, 9, and x1-3.  for some reason, when they gave the floor a 3d feel, it made it feel different, and not in a good way.  7-forte, and x4+ had the odd feeling, though x4 felt better due to zero being awesome and not getting an overpowered double-buster-saberwave combo, and was actually made into full other character unlike in x3 where he was only a stagerunner, and even then X got better eventually.

I wish i could see x4 and up in the x1-3 snes style, it worked really well, in my opinion. 

oh, and while i'm just being an opinion-giver, capcom, toss Axl plz.



Otherwise, i'm keeping an eye on this project, looks good, real good.

So you're saying if a classic Megaman game was in fact redone, it would be better to use an early Megaman X engine for it rather than the Rockman and Forte engine? Sounds cool to me. But remaking the classic games in X style would basically make it a bit more hard edge I guess. Which is kinda out of the ordinary for that series.

Vanya

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2008, 03:38:12 pm »
Sounds cool to me. But remaking the classic games in X style would basically make it a bit more hard edge I guess. Which is kinda out of the ordinary for that series.

Not really. The only thing that gives MMX it's 'hard edge' is the graphic style and writing.

I had considered the idea of using MMX as a base for a MM remake, but the lack of extensive documentation andmy own lack of ASM skill stopped me from using it. However it might be something to condiser for a future hack. ^_^

johnny

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2008, 04:57:11 pm »
That sounds like an awesome idea Vanya. I'd be more than willing to help out on a project like that any way I could. But to be honest I think it would prob be easier to make a homebrew if that was the case rather than a Rom Hack.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 05:16:41 pm by johnny »

Vanya

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2008, 01:01:02 am »
That is absolutely true. ;D

johnny

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2008, 06:07:45 pm »
Well I guess the idea behind that would be like Megaman X: Deja Vu. Basically taking X and putting him up against modified Megaman Classic Robots. Of course making them look like more hard edge. The music as well. I'm sure with the many game engines it could be done. But for me the way I could help out is probably Research and Development. An example is I would take stats as to how many shots it takes Megaman to kill each enemy in a Megaman Game, how much damage Megaman can take from each enemy, which boss weapons can effect each enemy and which ones can't, where you find secret 1ups and other stuff, etc etc. Likely if we took Megaman 4 for example someone who is good with graphics could make revamped sprites for the robot masters as well as an X themed tileset for the backgrounds for the stages. I helped on a project which did this sort of thing with Castlevania 3. It was called Castlevania Chronicles: Dracula's Curse. I did the Research and Development on that project which was hell. Unfortunately the project went nowhere. You can see a demo of it though here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36VMKOoKo0

The original prototype was created in Blitz Basic. Of course Blitz Basic at the time couldn't do transparent effects so the engine was ported to C at the time. Now Blitz Basic 3D is basically there and could do 2.5D. Alpha and Transparent effects could be possible now. So a Megaman game would work IMO.

Anyways my idea would be an intro stage to Megaman 4 also. Maybe one where Megaman is chasing down Protoman and has a short battle with him at the beginning.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 06:34:14 pm by johnny »

Vanya

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2008, 01:31:19 am »
Interesting ideas. We'll see what happens in the coming year. Right now I'm seriously considering dropping the MM5 romhack and going with a gamemaker format instead. I have the Megaman engine by Damaged for GameMaker. It seems to be pretty good and it's open source. If I use it as a base I could get Mega Man: Powered Don finished much quicker. The down side is it would be playable for PC only. ^_^

Killa B

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2008, 11:17:12 am »
Interesting ideas. We'll see what happens in the coming year. Right now I'm seriously considering dropping the MM5 romhack and going with a gamemaker format instead. I have the Megaman engine by Damaged for GameMaker. It seems to be pretty good and it's open source. If I use it as a base I could get Mega Man: Powered Don finished much quicker. The down side is it would be playable for PC only. ^_^
Please don't. This is one of the few current projects I'm interested in, so please don't take it away from me! :laugh:

No matter what anyone might tell you, it's a proven scientific fact that GameMaker is totally ass.* It's not portable, and even on Windows it runs like crap. I, as well as quite a few others on this board, use Linux. And while Wine is a great piece of software, I avoid using it whenever possible. If you don't care about Linux, think about this: an NES hack will also be able to run on PSP, DS, GP2x, Pandora, etc. It'll also run on too many consoles to even name.

If you switch to GameMaker, it defeats the whole purpose of romhacking! :'( Don't you want to bend the system to your will, and make it your bitch? :D Anyone can make a PC game, but only a minority of the world's population** can make an NES romhack. Be one of the few, the proud.

* I sometimes take liberties with the words "proven" and "scientific"
** This might sound like an exaggeration
I always dreamed of doing a Pokemon hack

johnny

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #72 on: December 22, 2008, 10:37:08 am »
It doesn't necessarily have to be a ROM hack to be portable. Beats of Rage is portable and thats not a ROM hack. I actually use Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex at home and I believe Beats of Rage can run on that as well as consoles and windows. But yeah avoid using premade engines that are Windows only. The whole idea of working with a Homebrew is to give yourself and others many options. Not really to take options away. Just a little advice. But I would suggest to do whatever is easier for you while at the same time making the finished product portable so all can play it.

Vanya

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #73 on: December 22, 2008, 04:09:01 pm »
OK.
I'll take all that into consideration.
I may even go ahead and make both versions.
It all depends on many factors.
GameMaker runs fine on my PC and it's pretty old.

SeraphSight

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2008, 02:42:35 pm »
GameMaker runs fine on my PC and it's pretty old.

haha, because it's made for windows.  Now, i don't have anything other than a PC myself, but i knowpeople who use macs and Linux and to get windows stuff to run, they have to first emulate windows as if that's not terrible enough but the thought of having to emulate the os just to emulate the game has me really pitying those without the specific os an engine runs on.  haha... 

It'd be like getting a DS or PSP emulator to play snes games on.  :o

Vanya

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2008, 11:38:31 pm »
Except GameMaker isn't an emulator. :)

johnny

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2008, 06:11:26 pm »
Well whatever you decide to do man it sounds like great concepts came out of this thread.

Edit: Also for those wondering I tested Gamemaker 7.0 in Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex running under Crossover/Wine. It installs but it does not run. I'm assuming since this is the case that most, if not all Gamemaker applications will not run under Linux.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 12:23:40 pm by johnny »

BRPXQZME

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2008, 01:33:53 pm »
I dunno, Clickteam software itself didn’t (doesn’t?) run under Wine too well for a while, but the games produced thereby were pretty much manageable (just not good performers).

There’s no way of knowing unless you check.
we are in a horrible and deadly danger

johnny

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2008, 09:49:26 pm »
Well I tried one game in it. I dunno if it was just the game or what but there were sound issues and Z is listed as the jump key and it doesn't work. The game did run though. Although I dunno if this is just the way Gamemaker is or the way it ran under Linux but it seems very choppy to me.

BTW heres the game I tried:

http://www.yoyogames.com/games/show/3656

Heres another one that wouldn't work at all:

http://www.yoyogames.com/games/launch/51295

Seems with Intrepid Ibex running Gamemaker games is hit or miss.

In any case my advice Vanya is to use something else. I'm sure theres plenty of software out there which can allow you to make a homebrew which can run well on all platforms. I believe I've run this Gamemaker software before I just couldn't remember what it was called until I just played these games. I believe the games ran terrible on Windows as well. So yeah...again I'd say go with other software.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 09:58:48 pm by johnny »

Killa B

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Re: New Mega Man 5 hack: Mega Man Powered Down
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2008, 09:58:32 pm »
In any case my advice Vanya is to use something else. I'm sure theres plenty of software out there which can allow you to make a homebrew which can run well on all platforms.
There's also plenty of software that would allow you to finish your Megaman 5 hack!

In fact, it will probably be much easier to do than writing your own Megaman engine. Not to mention there will be a lot more people who will play it.
I always dreamed of doing a Pokemon hack