News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project  (Read 94802 times)

Scapetti

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #120 on: March 31, 2016, 01:03:23 pm »
Yes, that's what I thought. I messaged Artemis251 about it on reddit. There is a version of Link's Awakening which has the 'g', 'p', 'q' and 'y' raised up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MytQ2AdhACE at 12:02 But I'm not sure if this is an official translation. There is also a German version which manages to fix the problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj9rbYjNlJM I don't know much about hacking but if the font was grabbed from Link's Awakening to begin with, and the code is perhaps similar? Would it be possible to look into the German version of Link's Awakening for a solution... or perhaps just raise the 'g', 'p', 'q' and 'y'... or maybe just remove the accent again :(

mutawarrior

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #121 on: March 31, 2016, 02:22:12 pm »
Hey, I'm not sure what all changes still need to be made, but I fixed the title screen and made a better naming screen. For those interested, the naming graphics start at 0x4F599 and the letters that get added to the player's name are at 0xB7D7.



Here's a zip with the patches. USC, I hope I was supposed to use your patch on the translation, 'cos that's what I did. Things worked in the 3 minutes or so that I played of it to test things. If the patch was s'pposed to be on the JP version, let me know and I can get my changes on that instead. The zip linked below has patches for the JP version and for USC's.

Clicky-clicky!

I'm guessing the title was changed to be more consistent with Hemingway's For Whom The Bell Tolls novel. I never read the novel, but when the title of the game is changed to The Frog For Whom the Bell Tolls, it implies that the bell tolls for a single frog, which is not the case. The lives of many characters in the game depend on the tolling of the Spring Bell, including Prince Richard and all his men. This is even indirectly true regarding the Prince of the Sable Kingdom who doesn't directly need the ringing of the bell to revert to his human form as a result of buying Mandola's potion, but he does depend on it at the end because defeating Delarin is a collective effort that is not possible without the help of Richard and his men who are all frogs when the battle against Delarin begins.

So I think keeping it For The Frog The Bell Tolls is more accurate, though I think it should be changed to For The Frog, The Bell Tolls with that comma. By leaving out the word "Whom", it is more accurate in my opinion because it applies to the frog species or anyone who was transformed into a frog. Adding the term "Whom" adds an implication that makes it sound like the bell only tolls for a single frog, which is certainly not the case. Even when a streamer friend from Japan saw me playing the original cart on my Super Game Boy on stream, he made a comment how the title means "the bell rings for the frog" which is consistent with the originally translated title. He definitely did not use the term whom in his translation. It seems to me that adding "Whom" to the title to make it more consistent with the title of the Hemingway novel is something that is not in the literal translation.

I don't speak Japanese, but I'm guessing if they wanted "Whom" in the title, it would be there and there would be a "Dare ni" (which a Japanese speaking friend told me is Whom in Japanese) somewhere in the Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru romanization. Anyway good work, and I just wanted to throw my input for consideration before it's too late.

March 31, 2016, 03:00:20 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
By the way, does anyone know if there's a flag that reacts to when the Prince of Sable is accompanied/followed by a character? I'm specifically looking for a flag that responds to when Ore Supply follows you as you hire them and when Madeline follows you when you go to rescue her.

If there's a table of all the identified flags (in 8-bit) & what they do somewhere, I would be very grateful if someone can let me know where I can find it. I've been working on an achievement set over at Retro Achievements and am more than halfway done. I was able to identify a lot of them myself and some I made guesses for, so I'd like to know if my guesses are accurate or not & update the notes I made accordingly.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 03:00:20 pm by mutawarrior »

Midna

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #122 on: March 31, 2016, 04:12:23 pm »
Grape juice is a wonderful idea and something I think many other games have done in the localisation process for wine. The sprite doesn't need to be changed. When has the Zelda series explicitly mentioned alcoholic drinks? I know Earthbound in particular changed beer to coffee. I don't think they would have a main health item as wine in America because it encourages a lot of heavy drinking and the whole legal age thing. Grape juice is implicit and works I think.

Chateau Romani in Majora's Mask is implied to be an alcoholic mixed drink (in the 3DS remake a character gets a hangover after drinking it), and 8-10-year-old Link is still allowed to drink it. On top of that, the pub in Twilight Princess explicitly serves alcohol.

My post was facetious, by the way. The point I was trying to make is that there's no real value in censoring the wine. Kids in real life are allowed to drink wine at Christian communion services (even if it's only a sip), so what's the big deal?

Artemis251

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #123 on: March 31, 2016, 05:08:40 pm »
Alright, so I modded the letters a bit to fit the accents. They now don't match the original Link's Awakening font, but they should be more readable. What we *could* do is just remove the accented letters from the naming screen, just as Link's Awakening had done. Then, it'd be pretty seamless and we wouldn't have to worry about the inverted breve melting into the letters due to lack of space.



As for th' title, I honestly don't have a passionate argument one way or the other. I messaged Tomato, a professional translator friend of mine, to get his two cents. On the one hand, Sakurai called it specifically 'The Frog For Whom the Bell Tolls'. On the other hand, getting it close to what it was intended to parody would be great, as that's 2 levels of translation shed off (akin to having google translate translate a passage to and from 2 languages and getting something weird back).

Anyone with two cents, I'd love to hear what you think. Also I love having exact change, and those cents add up. :)

mutawarrior

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #124 on: March 31, 2016, 05:32:35 pm »
I'm not sure who Sakurai is or if he was involved with the development of the game, but my 2 cents is that if he was, I'd say it would have weight as it being an official title. If he wasn't involved in the game, then my 2 cents would say not to take it as canon/official. I am curious as to what your friend Tomato has to say though.

By the way Artemis, given your familiarity with this game & the work you put into the hack, would you happen to know if there is a table/list of identified memory addresses/flags for Kaeru  that is published anywhere on the internet? I'm looking to see if I can verify some of the guesses I made and maybe even find flags that I haven't been able to identify yet for the achievements I'm making over at Retro Achievements. I really want to find out if there are flags that correspond to characters/things that follow you, namely the members of Ore Supply, Madeline, the Mammoth, and the mined gold. I'd greatly appreciate it if I can be directed to such a thing if it exists. Or if you or someone else has a list compiled in a file or something and can post it in this thread, that would also be sufficient.

Scapetti

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #125 on: March 31, 2016, 07:53:21 pm »
Ahh sorry, I replied to you on Reddit before I looked here! Looks great! Though yeah, I do think we should remove the accents on the name screen (so it is like Link's Awakening). I personally don't think they're necessary. It is an American translation and I'm sure very few American names have accents. I'm also wondering if the new é even needs the extra pixel to the right of the accent. Perhaps it should stay two pixels and then it is still like the original Link's Awakening font... or do you think that looks super bad? What do you think...

Also, I totally think Sakurai's comment gives the title weight as an official title whether he was involved with the original game or not. I mean they made a whole new 3D model of the main character for Smash Bros. That's a new involvement where he wouldn't just get the title of the game wrong. Also Smash Bros games are usually very accurate with their trophy descriptions and Nintendo history. The whole point of those games are to pay tribute to Nintendo's history. I would say it is the ONLY official title we have, so it is better to go off than an approximated translation. Also, Tomato is awesome, I love his legends of localisation series. Honestly, if I wanted someone to redo the translation for this game it would be him for sure! (Ask him and I will love you forever).

To Midna, yeah, I know what you mean about the wine thing, but I'm just trying to think about what Nintendo would do if they were going to do it officially. I don't think they would keep it as wine. But it's not really necessary; some people prefer censored translations for that authentic Nintendo experience while others prefer to keep things uncensored.

Artemis251

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #126 on: March 31, 2016, 08:39:06 pm »
Alright, so there's a bit to tackle:

mutawarrior: Truth be told, I did not do much hacking in this title. For the first release, I provided ryanbgstl with the graphics and he put 'em in. I also read over his script and gave him a doc with some proofreading and typos/changes, but I have no idea if anything I gave him was considered or not. Beyond that, this naming screen is the first time I really touched the code.

That said, I've done an extensive amount of manipulation of Link's Awakening, which was said to use Kaeru no Tame Ni as a base. If the two are anything alike, I'd check the save file for a flag. In LA, there's a byte to signify when Marin's following you, so it may be the same with this game. Get a save file before and after getting something following you and do a compare. I'd be surprised if it wasn't in there somewhere. For the flags, I'd be just as clueless you as you going into it. If it were for LA, I could give you a pretty full map of the save file, but that doesn't really do you much good, probably.

As for Sakurai, he didn't have anything to do with the game, I don't believe. Also, I don't think he should get merit based on including the assist trophy in Smash -- I doubt the team really delved much into localizing names for overseas releases. However, his account is the only official Nintendo employee's take on the title to my knowledge, so that gets a little merit in my eyes.

Tomato said: "At that level it's just personal preference I feel, both are trying to link to the original title in a different way". So it's really a coin toss to him as well.

For the wine thing, I'm all for my translations being closer to the real thing than getting the process close to what Nintendo would've released. Let's be honest, here: the audience of this hack are more mature gamers who want to check out old titles for the consoles of yesteryear. We don't need to worry about corrupting kids much I don't think. ;)

As for the é, it looked too flat when adding the extra pixel, and deleting the other side or shifting it over makes it meld into the 'e' too much. The letter sections could be remade to make the caps in the first column, lower case in the second, and numbers in the third, but the Z will always be alone due to being #26 in 5-long divisions. Changing the screen so it doesn't make groups of 5 would require some in-depth ASM hacking for controlling the cursor, and I'm way too busy developing my own game to want to get waist-high in that. Besides, I'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to ASM hacking -- I don't really know what tools are handy. Last time I did Z80 reverse engineering, I essentially had to go through tons and tons of subroutines to even figure out what was going on and where functions even started. I'm sure there're tools that make it easier, but I'm oblivious to them. (Though suggestions would rock if anyone has any!)

I'll give it some time to maybe get a few more people's ideas on the subject before submitting the revised version. I'll also go ahead and get rid of the extra letters. There'll be a line of spaces instead, but it's probably better than an incomplete set of accented letters.

Scapetti

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #127 on: March 31, 2016, 09:18:12 pm »
Yes, I think it would look nicer as columns with the capitals in the first, and lower case in the second and numbers in third. In A Link to the Past the name creation screen has a dash, full stop and comma after the Z. They have those three symbols twice, for upper case and lower case. And after the numbers they have !?()

So this is how I think it could look:

ABCDE   abcde    01234
FGHIJ    fghij      56789
KLMNO  klmno    !?()
PQRST   pqrst
UVWXY  uvwxy
Z-.,        z-.,

Also, I think you misunderstood me about the é, I didn't mean adding a pixel as that would indeed look too flat. I meant removing the top far right pixel, see this mock up: http://imgur.com/f2EFQ5Q
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 09:27:53 pm by Scapetti »

Artemis251

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #128 on: March 31, 2016, 10:10:33 pm »
Good idea with the letter layout. I'll get on that. :)

As for the é, the letters are naturally italicized; the accent doesn't look like it's over the e in your example (at least to me).

mutawarrior

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #129 on: March 31, 2016, 10:36:26 pm »
Thanks. I checked Link's Awakening already but whoever did the achievements in that game barely made any notes regarding the flags, so I'd have to check them all I guess, which will probably take a very long time unless I'm lucky.

Scapetti

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #130 on: March 31, 2016, 11:21:11 pm »
Good idea with the letter layout. I'll get on that. :)

As for the é, the letters are naturally italicized; the accent doesn't look like it's over the e in your example (at least to me).

Okay, perhaps you're right, I'm in half minds :) Did you see my reddit message with what I said about sprucing up the title screen? To make it more like the Japanese version and so it has more of an impact when the intro finishes. That the letters I think could be taller and brighter, as well as perhaps all caps? Just an idea

SCD

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #131 on: April 01, 2016, 02:09:20 am »
I did a little edit on the title screen to make it look better, I changed the lowercase "t" on the word "the" to a uppercase "T" so it would stand out more on the title screen.

Here's the image:


Let me know if you want to use it for the project and I'll put a download link here.

Zynk

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #132 on: April 01, 2016, 02:59:58 am »
In titles, articles (the, a, an), prepositions (for, in on, with) and conjunctions (and, or) are lowercased.

"The Frog for Whom the Bell Tolls"

http://grammar-monster.com/lessons/capital_letters_title_case.htm

you can try and type it
http://titlecapitalization.com/

ppl often capitalizes "Of" which is incorrect.

Scapetti

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #133 on: April 01, 2016, 06:33:22 am »
Yes, sorry, and Sakurai's post has 'for' with a capital as in 'The Frog For Whom the Bell Tolls' as you can see here:

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYoByIR5hQ

But what I actually meant was to have ALL letters capital, so it would be 'THE FROG FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS'

Sorry for the misunderstanding and thanks for the trouble

Artemis251

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #134 on: April 01, 2016, 09:42:47 am »
I'm in agreement with Zynk. I thought the 'for' should have been lower case, but I was kind of blindly following Sakurai's notation. I'm not really in favor of CAPS LOCKing the title, though. The simple title screen doesn't look terribly bad, but if you want something snazzier, I'm open to ideas. If anything, I'd be more for making it look closer to the Japanese title. I may give that a whirl and see what I get.

In the mean time, I'll be away for the next few days, so don't expect much until late this weekend. :)

Scapetti

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #135 on: April 01, 2016, 02:07:36 pm »
I'm in agreement with Zynk. I thought the 'for' should have been lower case, but I was kind of blindly following Sakurai's notation. I'm not really in favor of CAPS LOCKing the title, though. The simple title screen doesn't look terribly bad, but if you want something snazzier, I'm open to ideas. If anything, I'd be more for making it look closer to the Japanese title. I may give that a whirl and see what I get.

In the mean time, I'll be away for the next few days, so don't expect much until late this weekend. :)

Yes, I only want it more like the Japanese :) we wouldn't want it hard to read so I do think a simple font is nice, but I still think it could be a little larger like the Japanese font. But no, not terrible at all! That's why I've only just now mentioned it as an extra little thing. Just thought maybe it could be a little more, you know? And personally I'd rather you blindly followed Sakurai in terms of the 'For' :P And then making it look closer to the Japanese, yes :) Enjoy your weekend!

ryanbgstl

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #136 on: April 01, 2016, 02:49:22 pm »
I haven't had a chance to read through and think about the recent lengthy posts yet. Since there is interest in an updated patch, I'll try to do that and also dig up my old stuff when I get a chance.

mutawarrior

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #137 on: April 01, 2016, 08:01:35 pm »
I haven't had a chance to read through and think about the recent lengthy posts yet. Since there is interest in an updated patch, I'll try to do that and also dig up my old stuff when I get a chance.

Ryan if you have a list or table of memory address flags whose purposes you identified, would you be able to post it here or PM it to me (let me know here if you PM it so I know to check since I'll probably miss it otherwise). I have a bunch of them already identified and some that I made guesses for and there are some I'm hoping to find but haven't isolated yet.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Scapetti

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #138 on: April 01, 2016, 08:07:23 pm »
I haven't had a chance to read through and think about the recent lengthy posts yet. Since there is interest in an updated patch, I'll try to do that and also dig up my old stuff when I get a chance.

Oh hey! You are alive! Yes, there is a lot of interest :) You did a very awesome job with this, thank you

Eien Ni Hen

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Re: Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru Fan Translation Project
« Reply #139 on: April 02, 2016, 01:47:57 pm »
Hey guys! I was the translator for this game, although I think the script went through a couple revisions afterwards. My guess is that some of the dialogue was shorted due to space limitations.

Looking at your last post, some of the problems are related to American English versus the rest of the world. :)
Practice is used as both a noun and a verb, naive is an accepted way of writing the word (as is princess's), and the commas are a style choice. "How dare he!" is a statement of outrage, not a question.

Quoting this for emphasis. Specifically, it's acceptable to forego accent marks in American English. For example, words like naive, eclair, and fiance are normally written without accent marks. And commas work a bit differently, too.

Please let me know if you have any questions about the translation and I'll answer them to the best of my ability. :)
Soon the super karate monkey death car would park in my space. But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey.