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Author Topic: FF7 NES Chinese Translation  (Read 141352 times)

Vanya

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2008, 11:17:47 pm »
Might I suggest Glove instead of gauntlet?

Glove is shorter and encompasses more items as a gauntlet is just a metal glove anyway.

Lindblum

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2008, 12:55:48 am »
"Glove", "Gauntlet", it doesn't matter which is shorter because I use an icon in place of the word, and I'm imagining something more like a wristguard.  Besides, the glove icon () will probably be used for Tifa weapon names.  The best prospect for now is the Ring icon from FF3j ().  I could never even tell it was a ring until I saw the walkthroughs. 
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Vanya

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2008, 09:56:25 am »
That's a good idea. That would make it more of a generic accessory slot. thereis merit to a certain amount of ambiguity in these things at times. =)
I greatly look forward to playing the finished product! =)

Alex

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2008, 12:03:55 pm »
My life finally has meaning :D

I believe I might have figured out what may be screwing up the animated BGs.  The 6th Dialog block starts at 0x79011. 
In the original file it ends at 0x7EF7C.  With my patch, since English eats more script space, it ends at 0x7FF31. 
The limit is the start of a graphics block at 0x7FFD0. 
It turns out there was a block hiding from 0x7F110-0x7F724.  This is bad, but the consequences have been mercifully minor. 
I could move some text to the empty space after the block, but even ignoring it I am tight on space (and there are still a few lines left to translate there). 
Should I find myself unable to compress the text to these constraints, I may have to get greedy and corrupt that block. 

About the 4 armor categories, the original translates to Helmet/Armor/Shinguards/Cape.  Since this is unfaithful to the PSX game, I have no need to be faithful to this. 
I settled for translating it to Helmet/Armor/Shinguards/Gauntlet (with icons), since Gauntlets best substitute for Bangles from the PSX game.  I'll probably change it around to Helmet/Armor/Gauntlet/Cape in light of new information on Plate/Mail/Leather/Cloth classes. 

Though it pains me to give up the 16x16 icons, I plan to trade them in for the classic 8x8 icons, which will allow me to fit one more letter into Weapon/Armor/Spell names. 

Good decision on the translation.

Darkdata

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2008, 07:33:53 pm »
Watching what this game does in the ppu viewer for text scares me. D:

This game was built on duct tape and glue.

Any chance of expanding the "Att" "Mag" etc into full words?

Edit:
Might want to look into that.


Refreshed to the right tiles after a bit (not like above), happened when I used the magic restore.


This looks like RESt, could use a better name maybe?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 07:56:05 pm by Darkdata »

Lindblum

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2008, 09:44:16 pm »
You're welcome.  That's what I get for not running the patch through the usual diagnostic battery before posting it up.  The problem happened often with the Lizalfos and Pteragons and Mandrakes, and I mentioned it in passing pages ago.  It hasn't been this bad before.  I can *maybe* track it down. 
I tried to push "Atk " and "Mag " out to 5 chars ("Fight" and "Magic"), bit that made it much worse, and if I use 4 chars and the last isn't a space it looks like crap when event text runsthewordstogether.  I'm trying the patch and several tweaked builds, but I don't see your error come up when I run this particular patch.  I've tried Nestopia, FCEUX, with and without PPU viewer.
The Chinese can build entire sentences with only a few symbols and no spaces.  I am in envy.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 10:01:01 pm by Lindblum »
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akadewboy

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2008, 09:49:48 pm »
Darkdata by any chance did you have the PPU Viewer window open when you saw those errors? I've noticed that the PPU Viewer window (and Name Table window) sometimes causes lots of weird crap to happen to any game. You shouldn't have it open very often and you might have to restart your emulator if you ever open it during a game.
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Lindblum

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2008, 10:19:27 pm »
Okay, I saw it happen while fighting Scorpion with the PPU viewer open.  I think when a battle text string is long enough it overflows into the enemy's PPU data.  This might happen if the enemy has a name at maximum length (8 chars) or when long words like "Recovered" are used.  Calling Mag or Item invokes a menu screen, which refreshes the PPU table when you return to the battle screen.  I'd have to find myself a live sample of the extreme case, where it overwrites the entire enemy's graphics, but I think I've found the true nature of the bug!  Too bad there aren't many things I can do about it besides shortening strings.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 10:40:27 pm by Lindblum »
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Darkdata

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2008, 10:55:17 pm »
Too bad there aren't many things I can do about it besides shortening strings.
Recode the whole battle and text system! Hahahaha~

(Joking, of course. I am amazed you managed to figure out this much and get the text in)

Lleu

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2008, 06:52:27 pm »
I could never even tell it was a ring until I saw the walkthroughs. 

I'm with you on that.  At one point I thought it represented brass knuckles.

Lindblum

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2008, 08:25:55 pm »
Yay, 3000 reads, and I recently became a Full Member!

Okay, with the exception of a few icons, there should be no more Chinese text left in the ROM, although it will take some time to tell whether some of the English makes any more sense!  I've updated weapons and armor to small icons and squeezed more letters into their names.  Keeping up the pace.

Say, would you rather I leave the battle menu as...
Quote
Atk
Mag
Item
Run
...or use icons?

Actually, even with the PPU issue, I may have enough spare tiles to fake it up to say "Fight" and "Magic".

I forgot to mention that I still haven't figured out what to do for 16x16 icons for Cloth/Leather/Mail/Plate classes.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 08:47:19 pm by Lindblum »
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InVerse

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2008, 08:30:50 pm »
As long as the icons or clear, I would recommend icons over crunched text. If you can fit full words in, though, that might be better. If it's not a major pain in the ass, maybe try both and then post a screen shot to get comments.

Vanya

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2008, 08:42:50 pm »
Way back in the day I was fiddling with FF1. I briefly considered using icons, but felt that would make it too different from all the other FFs.

Darkdata

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2008, 07:29:46 am »
Icons. The "Att" looks lame, and when you chose something, it scrunches up to appear on the side.

Vanya

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2008, 08:09:58 am »
If you can I'd suggest using extra characters to make the icons 8x24.
You know, use 3 tiles for each icon. That'll keep the menu from looking too empty =)

Lindblum

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2008, 10:58:02 am »
InVerse, Darkdata, Vanya,
Thanks for the thoughts. 
Right now I'm learning to use FCEUX's debugging features to track down data to make an easytype patch (the one I said I wouldn't do, but progress encourages me), which is also preparing me to use Dwedit's input to help me to mod the dialog text engine.  I think it currently implements dual-tile loading so that English characters are padded from 8x8 to 8x16 (using a blank tile) to match the height of Chinese characters.  I aim to make it single-tile load, so I can fit 3 or 4 lines into a window, but may cost my ability to load 16x16 icons from the Chinese tilespace.  I only have a limited number of spare 8x8 tiles left to use, but the possibilities with the extended tilespace are enormous.  This is gonna be a risky and tricky job.  I need to find out if using 4-line dialog will corrupt the text engine in menus and battle, where I will need those 16x16 icons.  With those icons I can either use the icons sampled above, or scrunched-text icons.  I probably won't make a verdict until I've made those changes. 
As far as Icons vs Scrunch vs Trunc goes, Icons is in the lead.  Icons (16x16) vs Scrunch (24x16) both employ 16x16 icons which takes care of the display bug when a command appears over MaxHP.  Trunc, the last resort, is if 4-line text works but ruins everything else, which I wouldn't settle for unless I was evil. 
My imagination is starting to get ambitious, but first I have to see what I can do...
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 10:01:16 am by Lindblum »
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Vanya

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2008, 11:32:45 am »
Cool. Good luck with this leg of the project. It sounds like it'll be as complicated as my work on Mega Man Powered Down promises to become! =)

Lindblum

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2008, 11:18:48 am »
I'm really getting the hang of assembly hacking, but it's frustrating as hell. In order to insert code there's an elegant song & dance to do:
Code: [Select]
Native block
$XXX0:BLA  ->  $XXX0:BLA
$XXX2:BLA  ->  $XXX2:BLA
$XXX4:BLA  ->  $XXX4:BLA
$XXX6:FOO  ->  $XXX6:JMP $YYY0 #JMP to Free space
$XXX8:BAR  ->  $XXX9:NOP       #Fill in extra byte
$XXXA:BLA  ->  $XXXA:BLA       #Return here later
$XXXC:BLA  ->  $XXXC:BLA
$XXXE:BLA  ->  $XXXE:BLA
Free space!
$YYY0:BRK  ->  $YYY0:FOO       #Execute FOO I removed to make room for JMP
$YYY1:BRK
$YYY2:BRK  ->  $YYY2:BAR       #Execute BAR I removed to make room for JMP
$YYY3:BRK
$YYY4:BRK  ->  $YYY4:YAY       #Do
$YYY5:BRK
$YYY6:BRK  ->  $YYY6:NEW       #My
$YYY7:BRK
$YYY8:BRK  ->  $YYY8:FNC       #Thang
$YYY9:BRK
$YYYA:BRK  ->  $YYYA:JMP $XXXA #Return to native block
$YYYB:BRK
$YYYC:BRK

That's no big deal as long as I can find free memory.  The horsekick comes when my new code needs to use bank-switching to pull a value from another location, and instead pull the rug out from under myself by bank-switching the code I'm running! 

Code: [Select]
$YYY4:YAY       -> $YYY4:YAY
$YYY6:NEW       -> $YYY6:NEW
$YYY8:FNC       -> $YYY8:FNC
$YYYA:LDA #$PG  -> $YYYA:LDA #$PG
$YYYC:STA $BANK -> $YYYC:STA $BANK
$YYYF:MOR       -> $YYYF:ASS
$YYZ1:RAD       -> $YYZ1:FUK
$YYZ3:STF       -> $YYZ3:OMG
$YYZ5:JMP $XXXA -> $YYZ5:WTF
$XXXA:BLA       -> $YYZ7:WHR
$XXXC:BLA       -> $YYZ9:AMI
$XXXE:BLA       -> $YYZB:HLP

Why must it be so hard to find a safe free memory block?

(12:30PM)
Never mind, I've found a workaround that obviates the need for bank-switching.  The next patch is going to be awesome, you'll see...

(12:00AM)
Efforts in assembly are paying off in bulk. The backslash is never used, so I blanked out the tile and taught the text reader to treat it essentially as a new-line character.  Not only is this more memory-efficient than the system of dashes and padding-spaces I've been using before, it looks much better!  Making sure to cash in on this good fortune I've restored most (but not all) of the text I omitted for these space constraints.  I've backed up my work, cuz the next step looks harder -- 4-line text.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 12:11:51 am by Lindblum »
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RedComet

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2008, 01:07:53 pm »
Have you shrunk the text down to 8x16 yet? It didn't look like it would be too difficult to pull off when I looked at the code a few months ago. :)
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KingMike

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Re: FF7 NES Chinese Translation
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2008, 02:10:12 pm »
Was there already 8x16 ASCII support?

I looked at the FFL3 pirate (more than likely done by the same company), and it already had 8x16 ASCII characters in addition to 16x16 Chinese characters.
I started to hack in 8x8 support. But it looks like my plan of just hacking in the US text won't work, as there's many more items in shops. Don't know if there's anybody interested in translation support?
(sorry to derail)
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