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Author Topic: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?  (Read 312868 times)

rbudrick

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2008, 04:39:35 pm »
Hi Guys,

I'm the one on the Digital Press board who got to 4-4 and also discovered the hundred lives trick and the glitched level 4.  It's the same as in SMB but WAY easier to pull off.  You can do it on flat land!  Just jump on a turtle right next to a wall or block and rack em up.

BTW, please thoroughly read the thread on DP.  There is one level in particular that you CAN NOT pass unless you allow an elevator to drop of its track.  This is either a glitch (HIGHLY DOUBTFUL) or extraordinarily sadistic programming.  Man, I put some blood, sweat, and tears into figuring that one out!

Also, I forget which level, but there's actually places where you can go down a pipe and be stuck until the time runs out.  At least, I didn't find any way put.  But yeah, please read the DP thread.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83082

By the way, when I discovered the Bee, I didn't see any way that it was a continupower up, iirc.  I remember even holding either button and start like SMB, and left and start like Milon's Secret Castle and Hudson's Adventure Island.  I don't recall any effect.

-Rob

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2008, 05:55:42 pm »
hey rob yeah I did read that thread.  I suspect the problem you had in 4-3 is some kind of weird glitch more than anything deliberate.  Especially since there seems to be corruption in 4-2 and 4-4, perhaps 4-3 also has some issues?

rbudrick

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2008, 01:03:56 pm »
You could be right, frantik, but I think the code really needs to be examined to determine this.  It would be a shame not to include such a dastardly feature in a remake if it were purposely put there.  As insanely difficult as this game is, I have very little doubt it was put there on purpose.

I'll check to see if there's a Youtube of 4-3 to see if others had the same issue. It seems someone was already playing with an uncorrupted version in order to make those videos.  There must be a clean dump out there, but I haven't found it.

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzQbj-DXj64

The elevator drop to make the platform appear in 4-3 is not a glitch as far as I can tell, because in this video you see the player exploit an entirely NEW glitch to get past the point in question.    Apparently, he didn't figure out the technique I did.  I think I spent 200 lives figuring that out!

Oh, and the complete 4-4 is shown, in case anyone wants to check to see if it was fixed correctly.

-Rob
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 01:25:14 pm by rbudrick »

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2008, 01:45:34 pm »
yeah i watched that video last night to see if a) there was the bonus part of 4-2 shown and to see bout the platform thing in 4-3 but the guy uses some glitch to get thru the whole level so it doesnt help one way or the other lol

Karatorian

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2008, 02:26:14 pm »
About  the dead end pipes, I haven't run into them in the game, but from my testing of the level data, I know what causes them. In the level header, the pipe entrances have an entry that tells where they drop you and such. If an enterable pipe (they're marked with different blocks) exists on a chunk that doesn't have an entry defined (or the entry is somehow invalid), you'll get stuck.
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frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2008, 04:16:37 pm »
Have you decoded the pipe info?  it hasn't been an issue yet but in 4-4 there are lots of enterable pipes so it would be good to know which ones lead where

rbudrick

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #86 on: March 05, 2008, 05:18:59 pm »
According to that DP post, there is a Sharp X1 version of this game too.  Really wish I could find that to compare!

-Rob

Karatorian

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2008, 07:00:09 pm »
Yeah, I've decoded the pipe info. I intend to make my level dumper create an info text file for each level that includes a human-readable version of the header info, including the pipe data. I haven't gotten around to it yet because I've been working a lot lately.

I took a look at the corruption in level 4-2 and I found the strangest thing. You know how I mentioned that the 4-4 corruption was caused by the data being shifted right one bit, well the 4-2 data was shifted right half a bit! Well, not really. Floppies use MFM encoding, which stores two bits (data and clock) for every one bit of data. Apparently, the drive got out of sync and started reading the clock bits, rather than the data bits.

I was able to confirm this by manually restoring part of the level. I could see pattern to the corruption, and I had a good idea what the next few columns of the screen would look like, so I was able to manually contruct a few columns. This gave me a data set to compare to the corruption. After messing about, I remembered that magnetic media don't directly store bits on a one-to-one basis, so perhaps that was a factor. As it turns out, it was.

(In fact, the part of level 4-4 that I couldn't identify the pattern of corruption was the same thing. Not that it mattered in that case as that part was very simple, so I could just reconstruct it from scratch, but it's good to know.)

I haven't applied this info to make an uncorrupted version of the level yet, but that's my next priority. Unless I run into trouble, it should be sometime tonight.
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frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2008, 07:25:31 pm »
Yeah, I've decoded the pipe info. I intend to make my level dumper create an info text file for each level that includes a human-readable version of the header info, including the pipe data. I haven't gotten around to it yet because I've been working a lot lately.

cool cool.. looks like world 3 is going to be a bit more tricky in terms of pipes so looking forward to the text files when you get a chance

and you're a freaking nut figuring out how the data is corrupted and whatnot.. good job  :beer:

it looks like maybe invisible blocks with mushrooms will need to be hacked in.. i've been using normal visible ones but it obviously makes the game easier

rbudrick

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2008, 11:28:47 am »
Hey guys, when this is done, It would be really cool to make a guide of this game using screen grabs (or simply long jpgs or whatever of the complete stages) and with all the special hidden items and such mapped out.  It would make a great faq, since I highly doubt that a book or maps or anything on this game even ever came out in Japan.

-Rob

Starscream

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2008, 01:53:18 pm »
According to that DP post, there is a Sharp X1 version of this game too.  Really wish I could find that to compare!

-Rob

That one is apparently a little rare, I found both punchball Mario and Excitebike in my stash, but no SMB.

rbudrick

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2008, 03:53:34 pm »
Right, I don't believe it has been dumped (OMG R4RE!).  Anyone own an X1? I'd be willing to bet this would pop up on Yahoo Japan eventually.  If nothing else, it would be a great comparison for reference to better the NES version.

-Rob

MathUser2929

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2008, 04:45:15 pm »
Hey guys, when this is done, It would be really cool to make a guide of this game using screen grabs (or simply long jpgs or whatever of the complete stages) and with all the special hidden items and such mapped out.  It would make a great faq, since I highly doubt that a book or maps or anything on this game even ever came out in Japan.

-Rob

If this is a accurate port of the pc game then that won't be nessesarry. Cause finding the stuff on your own should be totally doable with a joystick, and savestates. You can just take that knowledge with you if you switch to playing the other game. Sounds like the main thing you'll be playing that version for willl be to see the hudson bee, cause it sounds like they won't bother putting that in here. PC version probably will be the inferior port.

Here's my suggestion tho, if there are dead end pipes and they look to be intentionally put in the game, leave them. It might be sadistic, but at least it will be accurate.

Starscream

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2008, 05:32:46 pm »
Right, I don't believe it has been dumped (OMG R4RE!).  Anyone own an X1? I'd be willing to bet this would pop up on Yahoo Japan eventually.  If nothing else, it would be a great comparison for reference to better the NES version.

-Rob

I just googled it on yahoo . So yeah it's out there. I don't know about it's dumping status, I'm just speaking here from the perspective of somebody with access to all the sets (well, afaik - there should be only two) that circulate in the English-speaking sphere. The thing is, I couldn't find  any drastically more/different sets on Japanese P2p, but I haven't sorted my stuff yet completly, maybe it's somewhere in there. When I find something that isn't out there, I'll definitely release it at some point.

KingMike

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2008, 06:30:02 pm »
Cause finding the stuff on your own should be totally doable with a joystick, and savestates.
M88 has savestates, but if you find an emu with gamepad support, let me know. ;)
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frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2008, 06:53:45 pm »
It would be really cool to make a guide of this game using screen grabs (or simply long jpgs or whatever of the complete stages) and with all the special hidden items and such mapped out.

this already exists.. check the first few pages.  Thats how I'm mapping out the nes version: using the images of the maps generated by karatorian


InVerse

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2008, 06:56:14 pm »
I just googled it on yahoo


That sentence just made my brain do a backflip.

Karatorian

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2008, 11:22:15 pm »
In regards to the Hudson Bee, I'm in support of hacking it in myself. Perhaps not as a contiue feature, but as something special. Perhaps a 3-up like the moon in SMW. Of course, I don't think it'll be a high priority, but I'd like to see it, so when I get done with level reverse engineering, I'll be on my list of needed ASM hacks. (I intend to help out in the ASM department once the levels are dumped to my satisfaction.)

I definetly think we should make all hidden blocks hidden. It's part of the perverse charm of SMBS the way they hide stuff.

As for the 4-2 corruption, I haven't finished restoring it yet. Due the nature of MFM encoding, the corruption cannot be reveresed by an automated machine process. This is becase some bit patterns could have been the results of several different bit patterns. However, the info I've recovered is quite useful for assisting in a manual reconstruction. I've been working long hours, but I'll have the weekend off, so I should be able to get it done then.

frantik, which would you consider a higher priority? The pipe connection info or level 4-2's layout? I may be able to get them both done this weekend (then again, I may not), but I was wondering which one you'd prefer to get done first.
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frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2008, 11:52:08 pm »
the pipe info would be preferred :)

Starscream

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #99 on: March 07, 2008, 08:13:48 am »