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Author Topic: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?  (Read 318085 times)

Baggins

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #740 on: June 27, 2021, 10:35:52 am »
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there's one more.. in the original game it led to a glitched pipe

I think there is a similar pipe in another level, past the pipe if you get up there, but it just takes you back to the start of the underground area, IIRC.

You could always do that if no idea where the pipe is supposed to actually go.

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No, I already stated my opinion on dithering a few pages back.  I think this representation uses the NES palette the best while still being reminiscent of the X1 colors.  Dithering looks terrible on a real NES, it causes artifacts that the X1 and pc88 didn't have to deal with

However, on NES did use dithering and artifacting to create new colors, or to add texture/detail to artwork. Shadowgate NES, and other NESVenture Kemco games come to mind.

Even the pipes in SMB1 used a bit of dithering to add 'dimension' texture.

There actually is a romhack that adds in the X1 color (fairly accurately, at least to overworld levels, didn't look like they bothered to do much in underground (still original pallete) or castle levels (wrong pallete in castle definitely), and they didn't get to the water levels either). But what they did do looks really cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiDUnBcGmnw

Not saying it has to be primary color choice, but I'd love it if the colors from that hack (plus fixed underground, castle and water level palletes from X1) could be merged into your hack, as an added bonus. Maybe it could be accessed via "pause" "Down + Select"?

I really like the light blue castle stone motif of x1 version...

http://www.mariouniverse.com/wp-content/img/maps/x1/smb/1-4.png

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There are no fireworks in SMB Special

No ,in SMB Special there are fireworks
Looks this!
X1
https://streamable.com/9o90lh
Pc88
https://streamable.com/cm5dgj

you probably haven't seen them, because in the emulator you can increase the fps rate or cpu speed
and when going at a different speed than the original one, it ignores them when representing them

Did bowser have any character transformations that might be hidden behind that timer bug? Like how in SMB1 and 2 bowser's clones turn into a enemy from each world? Like Goomba in world 1?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 10:57:33 am by Baggins »

shanem

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #741 on: June 27, 2021, 11:03:19 am »
Well, I don't really know that.
I imagine they will be equally programmed ...

Not necessarily. Remember that in SMB2J one attains fireworks by even and odd numbers differently. For example there are only 3 and 6 fireworks on that version (not possible to get 1). On that version an odd timer-to-coin match gets you 3 fireworks and an even 6 (0 is considered an even number). Also, having a coin count that is a multiple of 11 match the last number of the coin digit gets you a  1-UP AND 6 fireworks regardless of odd or even. The exception being 00. For eg. 11 coins and 331 seconds gives you a 1-UP and 6 fireworks or 00 coins and 330 seconds give you a 1-UP and also 6 fireworks.

It’s possible SMB Special could follow SMB1, do what SMB2J does or do something unique altogether.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 11:09:36 am by shanem »

Baggins

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #742 on: June 27, 2021, 11:12:49 am »
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Not necessarily. Remember that in SMB2J one attains fireworks by even and odd numbers differently. For example there are only 3 and 6 fireworks on that version (not possible to get 1). On that version an odd timer-to-coin match gets you 3 fireworks and an even 6 (0 is considered an even number). Also, having a coin count that is a multiple of 11 match the last number of the coin digit gets you a  1-UP AND 6 fireworks regardless of odd or even. The exception being 00. For eg. 11 coins and 331 seconds gives you a 1-UP and 6 fireworks or 00 coins and 330 seconds give you a 1-UP and also 6 fireworks.

It’s possible SMB Special could follow SMB1, do what SMB2J does or do something unique altogether.

One of the videos does show the person getting '1' firework. So we can at least know its different than SMB2LL...

shanem

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #743 on: June 27, 2021, 11:21:56 am »
One of the videos does show the person getting '1' firework. So we can at least know its different than SMB2LL...

Indeed; 1 and 6 count in those videos.

I tried googling the SMB Special mechanic and it’s the not easiest thing to find. I wonder if it’s possible to attain a 1-UP on the flagpole as well?

CasualChris

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #744 on: June 27, 2021, 12:47:52 pm »
It's finally here (kind of)! You have no idea how long I've been waiting for this.

So far I've only played through the first three worlds, and I think I'll wait for the formal release before I play the entire thing. That being said, I did notice something odd: in water levels (this occurred in both 2-2 and 3-1 while I was playing), there's a row of eight pixels at the top of the screen that are the same color as the water at all times. This is obviously not an issue in emulators that have overscan masking enabled by default, but I could see it being annoying if either it's turned off (like I have it) or if you're playing on real hardware (in which case, you don't have a choice).



Not only that, but if you use the "secret feature", the sky is black instead of light blue, and because of this, there's a sky-colored black square around the coin counter.


frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #745 on: June 27, 2021, 04:50:55 pm »
I didn't use any TAS tools. It happened to me the first time I played this hack. then I tried a few more times, It's pretty easy to enter in the wall between the two pipes

I'm surprised you're able to easily do this.. to enter the pipe mario must be standing on the ground, the only way I can think to do this is to frame perfectly land on the block, the same way one does a wall jump.  But you did it on your first time!  I have tried a few times to reproduce this.. can anybody else also also enter the upper pipe in 2-2?


I think there is a similar pipe in another level, past the pipe if you get up there, but it just takes you back to the start of the underground area, IIRC.

You could always do that if no idea where the pipe is supposed to actually go.

yes that's where it takes you in this version.  There is a pipe pointer in that level but they put it in the wrong room

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There actually is a romhack that adds in the X1 color (fairly accurately, at least to overworld levels, didn't look like they bothered to do much in underground (still original pallete) or castle levels (wrong pallete in castle definitely), and they didn't get to the water levels either). But what they did do looks really cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiDUnBcGmnw

it's actually not "accurate" at all.. they only dithered a few of the tiles, and they didn't try to use only 8 colors that the X1 could use.  Plus as you mentioned, they only did the overworld and left the rest of the game untouched.  I actually started working on a more accurate dithered version with the proper colors, and the more you dither the tiles, the worse it looks. And on a real system it causes weird banding and other artifacts.  It really looks like crap and the only point I could see is the novelty of it.  The idea behind bringing this game to the NES is to take advantage of the benefits of the NES.  Dithering was used on X1 and PC88 to approximate the colors of the NES, so there is no need to use it when bringing the game back to the NES.  Might as well remove the scrolling...

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I really like the light blue castle stone motif of x1 version...

Hmm I agree the castles need to be tweaked..

I wonder if it’s possible to attain a 1-UP on the flagpole as well?

I may have added a way to get a 1up off the flagpole...  :angel:  For now i'm gonna leave the fireworks for 1,3,6 on the clock like the original




Not only that, but if you use the "secret feature", the sky is black instead of light blue, and because of this, there's a sky-colored black square around the coin counter.



Thanks for pointing out the black sky in 2-2.. almost regretting adding the two color option lol... And the row of tiles on the top is a bummer.  On real hardware you're almost never gonna see that row (probably not even the one below it either) but you could on emulators. 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 07:06:30 pm by frantik »

shanem

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #746 on: June 27, 2021, 05:25:45 pm »
Well, I found an SMB Special longplay of the PC-8801 version and there are indeed 3 fireworks count on that version. The OAM positioning of the fireworks are different though. The routine seems identical to our 6502 version in question (SMB1 1,3,6 count and how to attain them). Can I link Youtube longplays on here with the timestamp or is that against forum policy?

ShadowOne333

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #747 on: June 27, 2021, 06:45:22 pm »
Well, I found an SMB Special longplay of the PC-8801 version and there are indeed 3 fireworks count on that version. The OAM positioning of the fireworks are different though. The routine seems identical to our 6502 version in question (SMB1 1,3,6 count and how to attain them). Can I link Youtube longplays on here with the timestamp or is that against forum policy?
Yeah you can add YouTube links, no issue.
Though I'm not sure if new accounts can post links right away or if they're limited to some criteria to post or not.

shanem

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #748 on: June 27, 2021, 10:32:55 pm »
https://youtu.be/txcEMPakkPg

Timestamp for 3 fireworks: 10:23.

The Object Attribute Memory X position is different but I believe if this subroutine mechanic was officially ported to the NES it would be exactly like SMB1 - so, I believe Frantik made the right choice leaving it as-is (1,3,6).

diablo666

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #749 on: June 28, 2021, 01:38:49 pm »
Excuse me, but at 8-3 at the beginning of the level, should an icicle hold on to the air?

I played this creation. With the latest updates, this has moved the port EVEN closer to the "original SMB Special". I'm surprised how good it looks. Juicy, beautiful, unusual. I especially liked the final CASTLES in the world 8. They are so beautifully made. (Although the author said that they are "curves" xD Such curves would be in the original)

For passing the hack-PORT - I noticed, maybe someone managed to notice - buggy sprites Bowser in 7-4 ... however, when it came to the end of the "screen", it became normal. I don't understand this... :-\

On the account of the "Flagpole" and 1 UP. It fell to me, but I did not touch the top of it... Usually 1UP they are given if the player touches the top of the flagpole...

But, this is already my quibbles.

Honestly, I'm in the original "SMB Special" - Therefore, my subjective opinion is: "it looks like a port", but I will not speak on 100 %

I just rewrote the game and noticed that Bowser throws one hammer. Is that how it's meant to be?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 01:52:49 pm by diablo666 »

shanem

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #750 on: June 28, 2021, 01:44:02 pm »
On the account of the "Flagpole" and 1 UP. It fell to me, but I did not touch the top of it... Usually 1UP they are given if the player touches the top of the flagpole...

Only in the New Super Mario series if one touches the top of the flagpole.

SMB2J is the only classic Mario game to officially get 1-UPs on the flagpole by getting a coin tally divisible by 11 (or 00). So 11 coins and 231 seconds would get you a 1-UP or 22 coins and 332 seconds etc.

Frantik said it may be possible to attain 1-UPs with his routine but it either matches that requirement or something new altogether.

Agahnim

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #751 on: June 28, 2021, 01:58:40 pm »
I'm surprised you're able to easily do this.. to enter the pipe mario must be standing on the ground, the only way I can think to do this is to frame perfectly land on the block, the same way one does a wall jump.  But you did it on your first time!  I have tried a few times to reproduce this.. can anybody else also also enter the upper pipe in 2-2?
here is a quick video i made, i was able to enter in the wall in 40seconds. no TAS used or anything else: https://file.fm/f/wjs2t2kqa

Dracula X

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #752 on: June 28, 2021, 03:07:18 pm »
I got a 1UP from a flagpole without even noticing about that while I was playing this awesome hack.
Back to Thunder Force II hacking again.

Vanya

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #753 on: June 28, 2021, 04:01:05 pm »
Finally got around to playing this bad boy.
Everything has been great so far. No bugs to report, but I do have a couple of little enhancement suggestions.

I noticed that 2-4 is an underground castle, by which I mean when you enter the castle at the end of 2-3 it's using the underground palette which is neat. However, when you start 3-1 the palette is the overworld night-time palette. Shouldn't it use the underground palette too? For consistency?

And I also noticed that the overworld night time palette uses black outlines which hides the font's shadows. Is there any way to maybe edit the palette to make the shadows blue like with the underground palette?

So far I'm up to 5-1. Can't wait to finish up and go through it again with the timer disabled. (I like taking my time to explore.)

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #754 on: June 28, 2021, 04:49:29 pm »
Excuse me, but at 8-3 at the beginning of the level, should an icicle hold on to the air?

as I mentioned before, the icicles are different because this game has scrolling

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I played this creation. With the latest updates, this has moved the port EVEN closer to the "original SMB Special". I'm surprised how good it looks. Juicy, beautiful, unusual. I especially liked the final CASTLES in the world 8. They are so beautifully made.

thanks :D


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For passing the hack-PORT - I noticed, maybe someone managed to notice - buggy sprites Bowser in 7-4 ... however, when it came to the end of the "screen", it became normal. I don't understand this... :-\

can you post a screen shot?  The sprites should change when the bridge is loaded, which is before you should be able to see bowser

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I just rewrote the game and noticed that Bowser throws one hammer. Is that how it's meant to be?

in 6-4 yes, he should only have one hammer.  In 7-4 and 8-4 he has a few more, but not as many as in SMB

here is a quick video i made, i was able to enter in the wall in 40seconds. no TAS used or anything else: https://file.fm/f/wjs2t2kqa

Thanks, I guess I'll put a block there to stop that.  I tried so many times to go in the wall idk how you guys are doing it.  EDIT:  Wait, you're the same person lol  can anybody else do it?

I noticed that 2-4 is an underground castle, by which I mean when you enter the castle at the end of 2-3 it's using the underground palette which is neat. However, when you start 3-1 the palette is the overworld night-time palette. Shouldn't it use the underground palette too? For consistency?

You'll have to talk to the original level designer on that one ;)  They also forgot to put a big castle in 7-3 but then you exit from a big castle in 8-1.  I changed that though.

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And I also noticed that the overworld night time palette uses black outlines which hides the font's shadows. Is there any way to maybe edit the palette to make the shadows blue like with the underground palette?

"technically" in SMB special the only time text has a shadow is when the sky is blue.. I'm debating taking it out for the underground, but it does look nice.  It can't be added to the overworld when the sky is black without also adding a blue outline to the clouds though

Frantik said it may be possible to attain 1-UPs with his routine but it either matches that requirement or something new altogether.

It's something completely different, not related to the timer or any number in the HUD.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 05:10:13 pm by frantik »

Baggins

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #755 on: June 28, 2021, 09:19:55 pm »
I notice that a number of underwater pipes are pink when they should be green is that a limitation of the tile layer color limits?

They were green in the original Super Mario Bros too...

https://nesmaps.com/maps/SuperMarioBrothers/SuperMarioBrosWorld2-2Map.html


http://www.mariouniverse.com/wp-content/img/maps/x1/smb/2-2.png

Also in the same level 2-2, the overworld section, the pipe colors seem to be off, they should be green too, and green bushes (only the trees are 'white with yellow trunks'). And at the end, there is white blocks that spell I . S or LS. You can't see most of the S since its cut off the side of the screen... Maybe you can force scroll the screen a bit further to show off that easter egg?

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And on a real system it causes weird banding and other artifacts.  It really looks like crap and the only point I could see is the novelty of it.

I say added it for RGB/HDMI modded NES, or people with Mega NT, or other HDMI resolution clone NES. People generally play those with highest resolutions anyways (artifacts are not a problem). Although I kinda liked the slanted /// look of artifacts myself. Reminds me of those hills in Super Mario Bros 3.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQoYhw80yBeZAeF3KU_lZ1mttBcimQsDHH7hf7FY8dMgiXJ56a2lDPGgCGoMudS1t5QOOY&usqp=CAU
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 09:45:29 pm by Baggins »

Vanya

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #756 on: June 29, 2021, 01:00:23 am »
For the record, I'm fine with night time clouds having a blue outline. So I'll definitely tweak my ROM for that.
I'll also tweak my ROM for the inconsistent underground palette to night time palette.

Here's another one, tho.

7-2 end fortress has a cloud to the right of it that has the lower left tile missing.

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #757 on: June 29, 2021, 01:59:04 am »
I notice that a number of underwater pipes are pink when they should be green is that a limitation of the tile layer color limits?

yes, the pipes are the same palette as the coral.  I could probably make them green but there's already plenty of green.  There are pink pipes in 8-4 in SMB1[/quote], only that sideways pipe exit in water levels is green

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Also in the same level 2-2, the overworld section, the pipe colors seem to be off, they should be green too, and green bushes (only the trees are 'white with yellow trunks'). And at the end, there is white blocks that spell I . S or LS. You can't see most of the S since its cut off the side of the screen... Maybe you can force scroll the screen a bit further to show off that easter egg?

Same thing here, the trees and pipes are in the same palette. As far as the I.S (for Ichiro Sakurada, the course designer), you can see it if you do the little trick to scroll the screen by walking over to the right, then going left, then right again. 


7-2 end fortress has a cloud to the right of it that has the lower left tile missing.

Thanks, I think someone else already mentioned that one.

I'll be putting out an updated version soon

Baggins

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #758 on: June 29, 2021, 05:34:52 am »
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yes, the pipes are the same palette as the coral.  I could probably make them green but there's already plenty of green.  There are pink pipes in 8-4 in SMB1, only that sideways pipe exit in water levels is green

Ya, it's also a rather weird kind of 'pink'. With interesting set of bricks, light blue dungeon/castle style bricks, which I suspect is trying to imply that its 'inside' or a sewer below the castle.

https://nesmaps.com/maps/SuperMarioBrothers/SuperMarioBrosWorld8-4Map.html

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Same thing here, the trees and pipes are in the same palette. As far as the I.S (for Ichiro Sakurada, the course designer), you can see it if you do the little trick to scroll the screen by walking over to the right, then going left, then right again.

Well the pipes should be green there too... If you look to say 6-2 of super mario bros you have green pipes, night sky, green plants... Only thing missing is obviously blue bricks from SMB2Special (a high contrast look that looks rather cool), and the white trees, and white blocks. Though there are white & blue clouds. But since there are no clouds in the SMB special level yo could use that for white and yellow trees I think.

Also the I. S seems to be white with yellow outlines in the original version of SMB2 2-2 as well, same as the tree's colors.

https://nesmaps.com/maps/SuperMarioBrothers/SuperMarioBrosWorld6-2Map.html

Also 'white and yellow/tan' trees appeared in several levels in SMB as well. 3-1, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1 among others. Both in night and daytime levels.

Also come to think of it the fence in that section of 2-2 should also be yellow and red, similar to the colors used in the flashing blocks.

http://www.mariouniverse.com/wp-content/img/maps/x1/smb/2-2.png

I also love the high contrast of the red/brown goombas on the nightside map too.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 12:59:16 pm by Baggins »

diablo666

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #759 on: July 04, 2021, 11:56:49 am »
Sorry for the false Bowser error message in 7-4... I used an Emulator EmuVT. On other emulators-this does not pop up, so this is my personal mistake. So sorry for the "pirated" error and misunderstanding.