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Author Topic: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs  (Read 1269 times)

Bonkers!

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The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« on: June 12, 2021, 09:44:39 pm »
This isn't really for me, as I'm seldom here. Asking for everyone else, as it might be helpful. A lot of translations and hacks for the FDS here, and I don't think any of them are compatible with the leaked master set FDS batch. Asking users here to volunteer a little time to teach beginners how to patch the files to the super good dumps. Obviously, there's going to be rummaging around in hex editors; just asking if the more experienced heads can give those not in the know some pointers.

Thanks for your time.

Jorpho

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2021, 10:51:16 pm »
Some further clarification would be useful.

A lot of translations and hacks for the FDS here, and I don't think any of them are compatible with the leaked master set FDS batch.
For starters: what makes you think that?

Quote
Asking users here to volunteer a little time to teach beginners how to patch the files to the super good dumps.
And secondly: what makes you think there's anything "super good" about the "leaked master set FDS batch"?
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Bonkers!

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2021, 11:15:07 pm »
"For starters: what makes you think that?"

The hashes are different from any other set, including every known no-intro. Why would a patch for another ROM work with them?

"And secondly: what makes you think there's anything "super good" about the "leaked master set FDS batch"?"

A lot of quotation marks. You seem somewhat triggered by all of this. Are you one of those happy-happy-joy-joy feelgood people who didn't at all fly off of the handle because a certain translator used a certain word in a certain Goemon game? Good grief.. I'm only asking for someone to help out beginners. Thought you'd be chomping at the bit. My mistake. Fine. Whatever. Bad FDS dumps that have been doing the rounds have now been verified as good in the leaked set. There you go. Source? Your fave search engine is your friend.

Like, wow, man. Wooooww...  :-\

EvilJagaGenius

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2021, 12:01:01 am »
Cool it before the mods get on your case for flaming.

The No-Intro specs are fine as to my understanding they come from community members dumping their own disks.  I suspect writing patches to fit Gigaleak images falls in the same sort of gray area as writing hacks based on Gigaleak source code and emulators based on Gigaleak resources.  No one does it because it's based on illegally obtained data from Nintendo and is vulnerable to legal action.  No-Intro is clean and widely available.

lewisje

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2021, 03:51:04 am »
"And secondly: what makes you think there's anything "super good" about the "leaked master set FDS batch"?"

A lot of quotation marks. You seem somewhat triggered by all of this. Are you one of those happy-happy-joy-joy feelgood people who didn't at all fly off of the handle because a certain translator used a certain word in a certain Goemon game?
The fact that you went for that reference indicates your own worldview more than anything else; I fail to see how skepticism that Nintendo's master FDS images are that much different from the images dumped by the community over decades is an indication of trouble with the accurate translation of offensive language.

It's as if you're thinking that anyone who pushes back against you must be in league with every other sort of Bad Person™ on the Internet.

---
EDIT: Bonkers, it seems as if you think that I'm a raging SJW, and although I sympathize with them more than the Alt-Right, I'm not politically extreme; I'll admit that I did suspect that you were an extreme anti-SJW just based on your rage at people who complained about a fan-translated word that was offensive yet accurate, and your use of that controversy as a go-to when somebody disagreed with you about something else.

I didn't make this a new post, because I didn't want too many posts that strayed off-topic.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2021, 02:12:05 am by lewisje »

CO_Andy

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2021, 04:00:47 am »
A lot of quotation marks. You seem somewhat triggered by all of this. Are you one of those happy-happy-joy-joy feelgood people who didn't at all fly off of the handle because a certain translator used a certain word in a certain Goemon game? Good grief.. I'm only asking for someone to help out beginners. Thought you'd be chomping at the bit. My mistake. Fine. Whatever. Bad FDS dumps that have been doing the rounds have now been verified as good in the leaked set. There you go. Source? Your fave search engine is your friend.

Like, wow, man. Wooooww...  :-\
Jorpho asked a couple questions for clarification, and you go on some wild tangent about an incident that's not at all related to what's being asked.

FCandChill

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2021, 10:13:08 am »
I guess I'll clarify... The Wack0 leaks included entire lotchecks for the Famicom, Game Boy, and Famicom Disk System. In other words, Nintendo keeps entire archives for most if not all of their systems.

For cart based games, the rom data won't change across the same revision so it's relatively easy to get a clean dump like you would if you got the game brand new. Floppy disks are a completely different story. These disks were designed to be written on to save progress. The games after being dumped, would have to be hacked to remove this save data. You can read about this here...

http://archive.nes.science/nesdev-forums/f10/t12911.xhtml

For normal users, this works. But for posterity, it's an approximation of how the original disk image was before being written to.

As a result, any FDS disk image not dumped from a sealed copy was automatically identified as a bad dump on no-intro. Some people who were datting for no-intro would buy Famicom Disk System games sealed. As you could imagine, tracking these sealed copies down was tedious and costly.

And then came the wack0 leaks... The entire FDS's library was leaked online. Not only that, these were dumped from master disks. They were the original disk images before being modified with save data. This is the holy grail for datters, to say the least.

Quote
A lot of translations and hacks for the FDS here, and I don't think any of them are compatible with the leaked master set FDS batch.

Now to answer this question... I don't see the dump you choose posing difficulties during patching in this case. You will only encounter patching issues if the disk image you're patching differs significantly from the disk image used to generate the patch. I'm talking about file size differences (which shifts around data) and differences in data that are being modified by the patch. When comparing lotcheck disk images with trustworthy dumps with savedata hacks, we're talking about minute differences in metadata and save data. Most hacks won't be touching this.

Old FDS translations offer a utility to expand the disk image's files and an IPS patch. IPS patches don't care about the checksum of the disk image. For newer translations, they may offer a patch in the form of BPS or XDelta which do care about checksums. They would throw an error claiming a checksum mismatch. The most straightforward solution I can provide is to use this patcher...

https://www.romhacking.net/patch/

When a checksum mistmatch occurs, it gives a warning which can be overridden. Also, when in doubt about a patch being incompatible with a disk image / rom file, try patching it. You may be pleasantly surprised.

June 13, 2021, 10:46:36 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm going to follow up on my post as there appears to be a miconception about No-intro and its relation to the Wack0 leaks:

The hashes are different from any other set, including every known no-intro. Why would a patch for another ROM work with them?

The No-Intro specs are fine as to my understanding they come from community members dumping their own disks.  I suspect writing patches to fit Gigaleak images falls in the same sort of gray area as writing hacks based on Gigaleak source code and emulators based on Gigaleak resources.  No one does it because it's based on illegally obtained data from Nintendo and is vulnerable to legal action.  No-Intro is clean and widely available.

No-intro's Dat-o-matic contains dats. These are information about roms. While before the leaks, all dats were based on community made dumps and modifications, after the leaks, this is not true for FDS image dumps. For previously stated reasons, the Nintendo FDS lotcheck was the holy grail. As a result, some FDS no-intro dats reference the Nintendo lotchecks. For example, this dump of "Idol Hotline - Nakayama Miho no Tokimeki High School (Japan) (DV 13) (Disk Writer)" references the dump origin of "Nintendo Master Archive" and dumper "Nintendo Leak"...

https://datomatic.no-intro.org/index.php?page=show_record&s=31&n=0401

As for legal concerns, there shouldn't be any. Like I said before, no-intro's dat-o-matic contains dats, and doesn't host any roms or disk images.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 03:24:26 pm by FCandChill »

Bonkers!

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2021, 12:51:05 pm »
The fact that you went for that reference indicates your own worldview more than anything else; I fail to see how skepticism that Nintendo's master FDS images are that much different from the images dumped by the community over decades is an indication of trouble with the accurate translation of offensive language.

It's as if you're thinking that anyone who pushes back against you must be in league with every other sort of Bad Person™ on the Internet.

You don't know what my worldview is. If you think that I think that you shouldn't have a sperg out over the usage of a word, then you're half way there. Thanks for making an account just to talk to me, by the way. I'm flattered. Though, you've kinda shot yourself in the foot by doing so. Yup. Just had to get it out there...

"It's as if you're thinking that anyone who pushes back against you must be in league with every other sort of Bad Person™ on the Internet."

Or:

"Everyone who disagrees with me is a an anti-trans, racist, homophobic SUPER-NAZI!"

Stop projecting. Again, you don't know my worldview. Stop being offended by words.

Oh, and you can bat for anyone you like, but you don't speak for them. They have distinct personalities; they are individuals (jaws across the world drop in unison). Keep that in mind.

June 13, 2021, 01:01:33 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Jorpho asked a couple questions for clarification, and you go on some wild tangent about an incident that's not at all related to what's being asked.

Not what was asked, more how it was asked. I don't have a habit of talking to people like they're crap. There's a huge difference between what you say, and how you say it. The person you're fanboying over is a stranger to me. I expect him to conduct himself properly. It's a small ask - in fact, it's something that most of the rest of the world has no problem doing at all. Can't we all just..get along?  :)

June 13, 2021, 01:05:28 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I guess I'll clarify... The Wack0 leaks included entire lotchecks for the Famicom, Game Boy, and Famicom Disk System. In other words, Nintendo keeps a entire archives for all of their systems.

For cart based games, the rom data won't change across the same revision so it's relatively easy to get a clean dump like you would if you got the game brand new. Floppy disks are a completely different story. These disks were designed to be written on to save progress. The games after being dumped, would have to be hacked to remove this save data. You can read about this here...

http://archive.nes.science/nesdev-forums/f10/t12911.xhtml

For normal users, this works. But for posterity, it's an approximation of how the original disk image was before being written to.

As a result, any FDS disk image not dumped from a sealed copy was automatically identified as a bad dump on no-intro. Some people who were datting for no-intro would buy Famicom Disk System games sealed. As you could imagine, tracking these sealed copies down was tedious and costly.

And then came the wack0 leaks... The entire FDS's library was leaked online. Not only that, these were dumped from master disks. They were the original disk images before being modified with save data. This is the holy grail for datters, to say the least.

Now to answer this question... I don't see the dump you choose posing difficulties during patching in this case. You will only encounter patching issues if the disk image you're patching differs significantly from the disk image used to generate the patch. I'm talking about file size differences (which shifts around data) and differences in data that are being modified by the patch. When comparing lotcheck disk images with trustworthy dumps with savedata hacks, we're talking about minute differences in metadata and save data. Most hacks won't be touching this.

Old FDS translations offer a utility to expand the disk image's files and an IPs patch. IPs patches don't care about the checksum of the disk image. For newer translations, they may offer a patch in the form of BPS or XDelta which do care about checksums. They would throw an error claiming a checksum mismatch. The most straightforward solution I can provide is to use this patcher...

https://www.romhacking.net/patch/

When a checksum mistmatch occurs, it gives a warning which can be overridden. Also, when in doubt about a patch being incompatible with a disk image / rom file, try patching it. You may be pleasantly surprised.

June 13, 2021, 10:46:36 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm going to follow up on my post as there appears to be a miconception about No-intro and its relation to the Wack0 leaks:

No-intro's Dat-o-matic contains dats. These are information about roms. While before the leaks, all dats were based on community made dumps and modifications, after the leaks, this is not true for FDS image dumps. For previously stated reasons, the Nintendo FDS lotcheck was the holy grail. As a result, some FDS no-intro dats reference the Nintendo lotchecks. For example, this dump of "Idol Hotline - Nakayama Miho no Tokimeki High School (Japan) (DV 13) (Disk Writer)" references the dump origin of "Nintendo Master Archive" and dumper "Nintendo Leak"...

https://datomatic.no-intro.org/index.php?page=show_record&s=31&n=0401

As for legal concerns, there shouldn't be any. Like I said before, no-intro's dat-o-matic contains dats, and doesn't host any roms or disk images.

Ah, a normal, non-foaming-at-the-mouth person. Thanks for your input. That's what I'm talking about. It should be of great help to anyone reading this. :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 01:05:28 pm by Bonkers! »

snarfblam

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2021, 05:22:50 pm »
Thanks for making an account just to talk to me, by the way. I'm flattered.

The account is five years old.

Just a reminder for everyone. Personal attacks and insults are against the rules and result in discipline. Please keep it on topic and polite-like so the topic does not get locked.

Jorpho

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2021, 06:33:29 pm »
"And secondly: what makes you think there's anything "super good" about the "leaked master set FDS batch"?"

A lot of quotation marks. You seem somewhat triggered by all of this.
Uh... I was using quotation marks to indicate my question was using the words you selected? That's... kind of what quotation marks tend to be used for? Here I am using ellipses to express confusion.

I for one have no idea what criteria you would use on two FDS dumps to establish one of them as being "super good" compared to the other.  It seems to be an unusual way to describe a dump.

Quote
The hashes are different from any other set, including every known no-intro. Why would a patch for another ROM work with them?
As M. FCandChill suggests, if two disk images have the same data in the same relative location of the image, and that's the data targeted by a patch, then a different hash will not affect the functionality of the patch.

If there is a specific patch you have encountered that has caused a specific problem, then that would be a good starting point for "some pointers".

I might begin by noting that there are utilities such as IPS Peek that specifically indicate what data is changed by an IPS patch.  One could conceivably use that program to identify the data that is changed in the disk image for which a patch is intended, and then see if that data is moved to a new location in a second disk image.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 06:39:15 pm by Jorpho »
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Chronosplit

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2021, 09:50:19 pm »
I suspect writing patches to fit Gigaleak images falls in the same sort of gray area as writing hacks based on Gigaleak source code and emulators based on Gigaleak resources.
This doesn't really have much to do with the topic, but I just wanted to stick my head in really quick and mention that the Pokemon Picross translation exists.

goldenband

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Re: The FDS Gigaleak ROMs
« Reply #11 on: Today at 04:56:12 pm »
Because of this, are we now able to identify the range of disk addresses affected by savegame data, and to revert them to whatever values they should be "by default"? I have a half-complete FDS translation that I've been sitting on for a while, and one reason is that I don't know how to zero out the save data.