News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!  (Read 76104 times)

Lilinda

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2007, 01:50:58 am »
Look, people. They redid the lip motions on all scenes where the lips actually moved.

This isn't a separate piece of data. It's included in the entire scene. To have lip motions matching japanese and english voices, they'd have to have two scenes.

Plus, you forget the FMVs. Those would most certainly have to be duplicates, even if the others weren't. Square doesn't want to go with a duel-layer disc(For reasons of cost and cheapassness), so it's not gonna happen.
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Cidolfas

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2007, 09:50:36 am »
Actually, the FMVs wouldn't have to be duplicates. FMVs are never redone for translation purposes. It'd be too prohibitive to re-animate and re-render all those scenes from scratch. Just the overlaid audio is done differently.

I'm not sure how the lip motions are stored in KH; as I said, it's just 2D animations overlaying a 3D model. Who knows how "hardcoded" they are in a scene? But the main problem would indeed be the two different sets of audio clips; there's no way there's room for both of them.

Lilinda

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2007, 06:39:00 pm »
Have you played Kh2? the FMVs(the three of them that exist.) have lip motions matching the words exactly.
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The Spoony Hou

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2007, 02:15:59 am »
Actually, the FMVs wouldn't have to be duplicates. FMVs are never redone for translation purposes. It'd be too prohibitive to re-animate and re-render all those scenes from scratch. Just the overlaid audio is done differently.

I'm not sure how the lip motions are stored in KH; as I said, it's just 2D animations overlaying a 3D model. Who knows how "hardcoded" they are in a scene? But the main problem would indeed be the two different sets of audio clips; there's no way there's room for both of them.

I've Square redoing lip motions in FMVs in every game that needed it. And, in KH it's not every time they use "pixel mouths"... Some months are fully rendered.

And I still think you can fit both languages easily :P.

Lilinda

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2007, 02:21:08 am »
Not if you've already filled up the disc.

Which is the point and stuff.

The fact that they're too cheap to go for a damn duel-layer disc is quite irritating.
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Panzer88

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2007, 08:43:30 pm »
The fact that they're too cheap to go for a damn duel-layer disc is quite irritating.

what they should do is be equally as cheap ass and just have a double sided DVD, I wouldn't complain. It's better than not adding the features.
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The Spoony Hou

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2007, 02:47:19 am »
Argh... Ok, if they really filled up the DVD, then I suppose you can't do shit. Fine.

Cidolfas

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2007, 11:41:13 pm »
Quote
Have you played Kh2? the FMVs(the three of them that exist.) have lip motions matching the words exactly.

They didn't seem to be perfect. I was under the impression that they simply recorded the sound very carefully to match the existing FMVs. Similar to what they did in FFX... Wakka's first FMV line fit perfectly - but sounded very odd in English. "You wanna...try that move...one more time?"

Animae

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2007, 06:18:51 pm »
Quote
Have you played Kh2? the FMVs(the three of them that exist.) have lip motions matching the words exactly.

They didn't seem to be perfect. I was under the impression that they simply recorded the sound very carefully to match the existing FMVs. Similar to what they did in FFX... Wakka's first FMV line fit perfectly - but sounded very odd in English. "You wanna...try that move...one more time?"
Thats probably what they did. Yes it sounded extremely odd, like he was chocking on water or something.

Actually, I hope that in future games, the localization team will alter the lip motions in at least the in-game graphics, so that the voice actors have more freedom in their actual acting. I believe the actors have a hard time matching the words with the lip motion, and -voila- "bad" voice acting.

Cidolfas

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2007, 11:24:36 pm »
Apparently the voice actress for Yuna tried to match the lip movements too much, which is why she sounds so strange in FFX. I think they told her to lay off it in FFX-2, which is why she sounds much more natural there.

2D "style" graphics (such as KH2) are much easier to reanimate, so those sorts of games probably will have more of that. I don't see the cost being worth it to reanimate 3D sequences.

Lilinda

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2007, 12:03:12 am »
*Bangs head against the wall until brain damage occurs.*

At. Least. 40%. Of. KH2's. Animations. Were. Full. Animations. Not. 2D. Textures.

Especially during the whole Radient Garden event that marks the halfway point in the game.

I've been saying this for two pages, people...
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Cidolfas

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2007, 12:18:19 am »
The animations are still 2D. Those aren't 3D models being animated when the mouths move (other than a tiny bit of up/down movement). I know that there's two styles of animations in KH2, but in both of them the lips are a 2D animation.

Lilinda

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2007, 12:29:46 am »
not when the rest of the face moves with it...
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Cidolfas

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #73 on: May 07, 2007, 11:43:37 pm »
The face just moves up and down. I can pretty much guarantee you that they didn't redo that for an English release.

The Spoony Hou

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #74 on: May 08, 2007, 04:48:51 am »
The animations are still 2D. Those aren't 3D models being animated when the mouths move (other than a tiny bit of up/down movement). I know that there's two styles of animations in KH2, but in both of them the lips are a 2D animation.

I didn't play KH2, but I played the first one and there are plenty of scenes with fully rendered months. Unless KH2 has worse graphics than the first game, I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

Cidolfas

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2007, 11:33:43 pm »
FMVs had full 3D mouths, yes, but not the scenes (and the vast majority of scenes were not FMVs).

It looks very good, but as far as I can tell, that's a 2D mouth being animated on top of a 3D model. It's very difficult to get movement like that (with teeth appearing and disappearing) looking natural in a cartoony model when it's all in 3D.

The Spoony Hou

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2007, 02:01:06 am »
I'm not talking about FMVs... I'm not stupid, damn it.

I give up, you must be blind.

Animae

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2007, 01:51:08 pm »
I believe The Spoony Hou has a point.. I recently played through KH2, and I think I know what you mean. I'll be back with some screens later if I can find some.

Rhys

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2007, 02:26:25 pm »
Cidolfas they have both Hi-res and Low-res models for KH2, the Hi-res ones have 3d mouths that ARE animated during cutscenes, in KH1 they're not used as much as they are in KH2 - pretty much voice acted cutscene in KH2 has full 3D animated mouths that are lipsynced to the voice acting.

Just to prove this, here's a cutscene where they're used constantly:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KBgm73siqY4

The Spoony Hou

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Re: ROM Hacks: Xenogears 2.0 Patch released!
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2007, 04:06:08 am »
You know what's funny? We got into this stupid discussion about rendered mouths because I was insisting that you could fit both languages in a DVD. And, guess what...

You can. Square did it. If you finish both KH2FM and Re:CoM, you can watch the cutscenes in both languages. With Japanese dubbing in the new scenes.