11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Started by hmsong, October 22, 2021, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: Zimgief on December 07, 2021, 03:12:31 PMI don't know what hmsong meant by "3 times in a row": did one of the character strike the enemy between each counter?If not - that is, that counters are are checked for each strike and stacked until all occur - said stack could be emptied after one counter?
Quote from: Zimgief on December 07, 2021, 03:12:31 PMRegarding a correct percentage for melee counters... The ideal should be a ratio of damage inflicted/damage received equilavent to that of the use of skills?
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 07, 2021, 12:12:38 PMThe whole thing is a textbook example of "be careful what you wish for you might get exactly what you ask".Even if it was only 1%, nothing stops you from getting 3 of those within like 5-7 hits. Since it is chance per hit it penalizes Hawk and Kevin extra. though that may be fair since they also gain TP at twice the rate.So what now? How do you want to proceed with this?
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 07, 2021, 03:57:04 PMit probably works the same way as poisoned silver knights spamming 3-5 tinkle rains - I'm not dealing with that.ok, so lets assume death spell or a lv2 spell with mind up, mind down and correct day hitting a weakness or something; should put us into the 800-999 range.what do we compare it to?duelist duran, power up, elemental saber vs def down'd final boss?so 350 atk x 1.2 x 1.5 - (220 x 0.8 ) = 630 - 176 = 454that is not even getting to techs or crits...you're right, I should increase the 1/8 of spell counter rate to 1/2
Quote from: Zimgief on December 08, 2021, 03:59:17 AMMaybe the wisest thing would be no counters at all (nor magic, nor melee), and a random chance to trigger the skill, with at least some frames between activations to allow players to recover even if they are unlucky.The formula for the random activations could take into account the highest luck or a the average between all members?
Quote from: hmsong on December 07, 2021, 08:42:45 PM1. Make the small bosses (and enemies) do what the big bosses do -- use magic/tech every 10 sec or something (maybe you can make it so that [char Luck vs target Level] is a factor in determining the magic attack frequency). Yes, that means Counters (melee or magic) are no longer used. That'll resolve any combo issues. This was actually my request, although I admit I worded my request very poorly.
Quote from: hmsong on December 07, 2021, 08:42:45 PM2. Disable counters for magic (this will encourage players to use magic/tech), but enable melee counter. The melee counter rate should be ~3% (as recent experiment indicated, ~7% is too high). Not sure how to apply Luck stat here though. And yes, this may result in the bosses still using "skill combo" which may result in total party kill, but the rate of that happening will be significantly less. Of course, if it still happens, then you gotta reset and start over, but the idea is to reduce the chance. And again, it'll encourage players to use magic and Lv2/3 techs more frequently, which is good.
Quote from: hmsong on December 07, 2021, 08:42:45 PMAlso, I don't know where you got "51". If your previous formula for boss is (25+target level/2), then DSK's Lv being 44, the number must be out of 47. A typo?
Quote from: hmsong on December 07, 2021, 08:42:45 PM3. This may be a bit confusing. I'll try to articulate as best as I can.Using 20 Luck vs Darkshine Knight example, the counter rate being out of 51 made the players (err, me) be very afraid of using skills. I mean, even at 20 Luck (that's the highest of all char/class at Lv44), the magic counter rate is still whooping 61%? I think that's too much. (...)Therefore, I think the number should be out of (5+target level/2) for regular enemies or (10+target level/2) for bosses, and melee counter should be 1/16 instead of 1/8. Hawk LD's max Luck (highest Luck char/class) at Lv44 is 20. So against Lv44 enemies, regular enemies have 7/27 (26%) chance to magic counter and 1.6% of melee counter (this is significantly more reasonable, because most dangerous regular enemies have HP threshold techs), and bosses have 12/32 (37.5%) chance to magic counter and 2.3% of melee counter. And that's the best case scenario, since Hawk has the highest Luck. Most characters will have ~16 Luck (if it's raised), which results in higher counter rate.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 08, 2021, 12:26:45 PMDenied, goes too far away from vanilla.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 08, 2021, 12:26:45 PMNo idea, I used the DSK from the debug room and looked what the rate was in the code; maybe it is a higher level or something.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 08, 2021, 12:26:45 PMConsidering that spells deal 1.5-4x damage at best (assuming some form of buffs because that should be our baseline and not very suboptimal play) 1/16th the rate seems very wrong.
Quote from: hmsong on December 08, 2021, 06:04:34 PMThe DSK from the debug room is map 983, and he's at Lv44 too. Just a suggestion, but perhaps you should recheck your magic counter formula, because something may be up. That may explain why the counter rate is so high (higher than you intended).
Quote from: hmsong on December 08, 2021, 06:04:34 PMAnd always assuming that the characters are buffed and enemies are debuffed is... not right.
Quote from: hmsong on December 08, 2021, 06:04:34 PMOf course, if you have betters ways to overcome the flaws, then I'm all for that too.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 09, 2021, 12:30:37 PMDoes an active cheat count that gave him Lv60?
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 09, 2021, 12:30:37 PMI'm of the opposite opinion; (de)buffs are there to be used, so at least for boss fights that MUST be taken into consideration.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 09, 2021, 12:30:37 PMOk, so if 7% is too much for how about scaling it compared to the damage dealt?Yes this does make it even worse for melee, I'm AGAINST still playing favorites with melee as it currently it.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 10, 2021, 02:32:45 AMTbh, it should be a "flat" amount and not based on the actual damage dealt; if we went with the later it would be very hard to avoid a tripple combo of tripping the 3/7th, 50% and 4/7th (6428, 7500, 8571 for a 15k HP boss which is roughly the max before the two last boss fights) reactions in short order while you use (de)buffs (at least 800 from Angela + 2x 300 if Kevin uses a Lv1 tech, a bit of flag and another 1-2 swings from Kevin).
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 10, 2021, 12:23:54 PMok not "flat" but "fixed".like spells and L2/3 techs add 40 x LUCK_ADJUST to aggroand regular attacks and L1 techs add 15 x LUCK_ADJUSTand you trigger a counter when the total reaches 150-255 depending on enemy; maybe even have enemies lose some aggro points when they deal damage, dunno if that goes too far by now...
Quote from: hmsong on December 10, 2021, 07:32:43 PMOh, so you're considering on using aggro meter of some kind? Great! Not sure what's a good number for aggro, but you have more exp with that, so I'll leave that to you.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 11, 2021, 08:18:28 AMNot really; the "exp" I have with such a system lives in an environment where regular attacks deal very low damage and there's a player skill based way to reset the meter.
Quote from: hmsong on December 11, 2021, 09:45:59 AMOh. Guess I misunderstood you. Damn. So any thoughts on how to overcome the flaws of counter combos? Or maybe you explained, but I didn't understand well.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on December 11, 2021, 06:24:41 PMNot really; that logic is in the compressed section.Changing anything there beyond a constant value goes way beyond the effort I'm willing to put into SD3 these days.Making the proposed change to counterlogic would maybe take an hour; changing that chest logic? Can say goodbye to a whole weekend.
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