11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Started by hmsong, October 22, 2021, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: hmsong on October 27, 2021, 08:02:03 PM"Atk*1.125 + Luck*1.5"? Wouldn't that just result in even bigger damage output? I know what you intend is, "(Atk*1.125) + (Luck*1.5)", as that's how real math works when using multiplication, but because of how old games work, I have a feeling it'll end up as, "Atk*1.125 + Luck * 1.5".
Quote from: Chicken Knife on October 27, 2021, 10:02:57 PMI have one thought I wanted to just get out there with criticals: regardless of the damage calculation, we really need some kind of differentiating sound for them
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 28, 2021, 05:22:41 AMBy the rules of math I know "Atk*1.125 + Luck*1.5" and "(Atk*1.125) + (Luck*1.5)" are the exact same thing, so no idea what you're thinking of there.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 28, 2021, 05:22:41 AMAs for Hawk&Kevin, technically we could give only them -25% final damage but then we'd be far away from a bug fix and deep in rebalance territory.
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 08:28:23 AMI know that's how real math works, but I meant to say, I have a feeling that the game would interpret it as (((Atk*1.125) + Luck) *1.5), just as Vanya said. Although mine was based on gut feeling, rather than Vanya's actual programming knowledge. In any case, I'm sure you know what you're doing. I leave that in your capable hands.
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 08:28:23 AMTrue that. Some balancing may be necessary (like what you're doing with critical hit), but there's a line, and reducing Hawk/Kevin's final damage by 25% may be too much into rebalancing territory (although I would absolutely love that).
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 08:28:23 AMI would request you to simply reduce Kevin's +1/7 werewolf bonus to +1/10 (I think that's more reasonable bonus), but that may be crossing the line of bugfix.
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 08:28:23 AMOn the other hand, I know you made the critical chance into 2+Luck, but given how frequent the critical hits are, could you reduce it to 0+Luck instead?
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 28, 2021, 11:00:30 AMWhether Hawk or Duran is stronger just depends on target def or presence of power up buff; and nerfing Hawk a little bit would ease my mind with giving a bit more oomph to the luck stat on a crit.Maybe even dare scale it relative to the equipped weapon:just flat +(luck * weaponfactor)/3 (monster have no weapon but could probably substitute a pseudo weaponfactor by level/4 or so)ok that is probably a bit too much
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 28, 2021, 11:00:30 AMLet's be honest, I already crossed that line when I enabled crits.Random chance to deal Lv1 tech damage is a massive balance change; not that it helps with how OP melee already was (relatively to magic casting being effectively suicide)crit chance =50% from energy ball breaks the game as well... should probably interpret it as x1.5 (+50%) instead of set to 50%
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 28, 2021, 11:00:30 AM+0 would make the beginning of the game even slower than it already is; 2% crit chance for Duran&Kevin basically means they always deal vanilla damage.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 28, 2021, 11:00:30 AMwhat are the opinions on spell damage by scaled by the target's "rank" (class change for player) instead of the user'srank0 (L0-19) / base class = 100%rank1 (L20-39) / 1st class = 160%rank2 (L40+) / 2nd class = 190%imo that is backwards but I've never seen it called out as a bug
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 28, 2021, 11:00:30 AMdunno, at this point I should probably give it a real name instead of just "bug fix" and go a step further...
Quote from: EvilJagaGenius on October 28, 2021, 11:15:36 PMMaybe it would be a good idea to add the three-player hack to the list as well. Does it work with the other patches too? https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/179/
Quote from: mkwong98 on October 28, 2021, 11:07:47 PMIs it impossible to apply the crit bonus after defense? I'm interested to see the steps in the calculation.
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 07:49:35 PMYeah, I think that's a little too much too.
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 07:49:35 PMHmm. Instead of increasing critical hit rate, I would prefer if you increase the critical damage (to the original +50%). That way, Energy Ball won't be as overpowered, but not useless either.
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 07:49:35 PMThat reminds me. I know you said that Speed Up changes ACC to +10/-15, but could you perhaps raise that slightly? Also, the same for EVA (instead of +x%, add a fixed EVA point). I'm asking you this, because Speed Up is still pretty useless, based on my fights against Tzenker. I used Kevin, and I never raised speed stat (I was at Lv10), and I still felt that I missed Tzenker no more than I typically do. The same with when that mole boss, when he used Speed Down on me.
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 07:49:35 PMI thought the speed in the beginning is fine. Even if it's true that it's slower, the problem is that enemies have high chance of doing critical hit. I think that's the bigger issue in the beginning, esp since you don't have many healing option. But that's just me.
Quote from: hmsong on October 28, 2021, 07:49:35 PMSorry, I didn't quite understand you. I know that spells damage output changes, based on how many class ups you had, but you want to change it, so that enemies' levels will affect the boost, instead of player's class?
Quote from: Red Soul on October 29, 2021, 05:12:31 AMPersonally, I think magic is too weak and slow to have any real merit. It should cast almost instantly to be able to even remotely keep up with melee, DPS wise, not to mention mounting mana costs with every class up (speaking strictly of offensive magic here).
Quote from: mkwong98 on October 29, 2021, 01:06:19 PMInstead of crit increasing the attack, how about making crit reduce/ignore def?
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 29, 2021, 06:00:13 AMwasn't as bad as I thought and would give luck very slightly more value, +5 damage on a crit when STR gives +15 all the time.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 29, 2021, 06:00:13 AMremember that power up is like +50% effective damage and can be bought in the black market while energy ball is the only spell that death hand gets. we could give energy ball both effects and it would still be weaker than power up.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 29, 2021, 06:00:13 AMI think the issue with Tzenker is that she has actually 0 evade stat but you miss her based on position/flying state.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 29, 2021, 06:00:13 AM"high chance" is like 5% there...
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 29, 2021, 06:00:13 AMCurrently it checks for the target's class rank; monster are treated as class 1 at lv20-39 or class 2 at lv40+.That means that it is currently detrimental for the player to class change a second time.First need to grind for a rare drop (??? seed) on a handful of specific enemies, then you need to pray again to get the right 1/3 item from it and all you get immediatly is TAKING MORE DAMAGE - thanks game.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 29, 2021, 06:00:13 AMGiven the mess that fixing the casttime bug caused last time I should probably just make all spells cast instantly instead here; items and boss spells would still have priority though.Would it seem overpowered if you can instantly stone cloud some mob to death? Yes but that requires levels that are already past what you need to finish the game comfortably with just the buffs you can buy; and you can already do the same by opening the menu with a second character once - so really, this is just a QOL change...
Quote from: EvilJagaGenius on October 28, 2021, 11:15:36 PMFrankly, it's more than a little absurd that Wanderer Hawk can be a better caster than Angela in practice (decent damage via Poison Bubble + virtually infinite MP) and Ninja Master Hawk is, for all intents and purposes, a better caster-debuffer than Rune Master Angela (cheap MT Jutsus with debuffs).
Quote from: soul_knight on October 29, 2021, 05:59:42 AMCan you make it so that Dragon Shield can be gotten from ??? Seed, after the 2nd class up? The bugfix patch makes Dragon Shield awesome, but you can't even get it, unless a very specific situation occurs in a limited time frame. Or make it only available to Duran LL. I mean, Duran LD has 2 shields. So why shouldn't Duran's LL have 2 shields?
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 29, 2021, 01:10:34 PMThe basic formula is at its core ATK - DEF, so whether we increase atk by 50 or lower def by 50 is the same.Full ignore def would be insane; endgame monster have 200-245 def, so you'd get that much extra def.Not to be talking about the player taking up to 300 extra damage that way...
Quote from: hmsong on October 29, 2021, 07:33:53 PMWell, isn't that why you reduced Power Up from +33% to +20%? That way, it's nowhere near as devastatingly powerful?
Quote from: hmsong on October 29, 2021, 07:33:53 PMI'm saying Tzenker before Speed Up and Tzenker after Speed Up feels no different, in terms of me missing attacks. But now that I know that she has 0 Eva, I know why (0 * 1.20 = 0). I don't know how that's possible, since she has Lv10 Lise's stats, right? (meaning she should have ~8 Agi stat) In any case, Speed Up/Down affecting the Eva stat by fixed amount would bring more merit to Speed Up/Down.
Quote from: hmsong on October 29, 2021, 07:33:53 PMWell, yeah. But that additional +2% of critical hit for everyone is just... I don't think people will mind not seeing critical hit in the beginning. They're gonna see plenty in the later parts of the game.
Quote from: hmsong on October 29, 2021, 07:33:53 PMWell, the damage output suddenly increasing at Lv40 is probably worse. That is, unless the damage increase affects the players too. Personally, I think leaving that particular mechanic as vanilla way is adequate. Far from perfect, but adequate.
Quote from: hmsong on October 29, 2021, 07:33:53 PMI think all spells being insta-cast is a bit too much. I much prefer if you fix the cast bug. Sure, spells are not as useful as melee, but if we're talking about Angela, she would do more damage with magic than her own melee, and without putting herself in harm's way (as much). You can't be comparing Angela's magic vs Kevin's melee (or something similar). You have to compare Angela's magic vs Angela's melee.
Quote from: hmsong on October 29, 2021, 07:33:53 PMAnd let's not forget. All the girls (Angela, Carlie, Lise) get cast time bonus when they get 2nd class change.
Quote from: hmsong on October 29, 2021, 07:33:53 PMThat's a good idea, but I'm not sure if I can make it happen. I'll look into it, but don't get your hopes up.
Quote from: mkwong98 on October 29, 2021, 09:28:00 PMIt is not the same if it is 50% as you stated earlier, not fixed 50 points. Come to think of it, may be adding a fixed value to the final damage actually works better?
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 30, 2021, 05:59:47 AMHonestly I believe the evade modifiers were decided while drunk; most of them make little logical sense.Examples:ninja -98%ninja master +8%nightblade -57% (yes, the master of assassination evades worse than any of the mages)magician -12%wizard +5% (3rd highest out of all non-bosses, seriously)high wizard -27%specter +100%ghost -44% (the evolved form of a typically incorporal creature, ladies and gentlemen)bill/ben +0%koren +15%heath +70%(!!)dangaard -100% (flying creature during high speed chase? free hits ofc!)
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 30, 2021, 05:59:47 AMIn the patch I made it so that it uses the caster's level and ignores the class rank; so even if you don't class change you have +90% at Lv40.And lets be fair, with enabled crits melee already got a bonus, so magic getting a little something here as well isn't necessarily wrong.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 30, 2021, 05:59:47 AMSorry, but this info is false or at least incomplete.EVERYONE gets a drop of 60 ticks to their cast time per class change, not only the girls or only on 2nd class change.
Quote from: praetarius5018 on October 30, 2021, 05:59:47 AMIf you find out where the seeds get their item lists from, I'd like that info as well, please.
Quote from: hmsong on October 30, 2021, 05:00:48 PM@Red SoulBased on what I can tell, all of my patches are still compatible with the bugfix v1.5, as far as code compatibility is concerned. Whew. However, the new bugfix hack probably ignores any cast time edits that I did, meaning all casts are now super fast. I haven't tested how well the melee works, so if anyone tests this patch (I will do so later), any empirical observation and posting how things work (and the flaws/bugs) would be great.
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