Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion

[Mr X]

While I CAN change it, the description of the item (in the ring menu) will not match the effect.  So no, I will not change it.

Hmm.  I'm not seeing the freeze.  What specific ROM and patches did you use?  I assume you used the typical (and only, as far as I know) fan translation if you used SD3.

Is anyone else experiencing the same freeze?

I used the Trials of Mana, like the game just stops the moment I press the cursor over the mr desth god icon in menu screen (not the ring menu)

[praetarius5018]

I guess the descriptions for spells you're not supposed to have reads from unrelated areas since no translator expected the game to reach there. So depending on the translation it may either result in garbage text or, well, crashes.
I think for Sin of Mana I snuck in a table that re-maps the description to the ones of other spells.
E.g. Fireball stays Fireball but Ghost Road (formerly enemy-exclusive) gets the one from Ghost (Charlie's spell). Not perfect but at least no screen barf.

[hmsong]

Bah.  Well, in that case, can you make one of the seeds restore more MP?  There's not enough MP restoring items.

Hmm.  I hesitate to do that, because MP is the real life line if you use Heal Light often.  But very well.  I'm not gonna make one of the seeds (most likely ??? Seed) restore crazy amount of MP, but I'll make it so that it can restore MT MP restore, assuming the animation works.  Probably 20 MP, just like Magic Walnut.

I used the Trials of Mana, like the game just stops the moment I press the cursor over the mr desth god icon in menu screen (not the ring menu)

Good eyes.  I'll get right to it.

I guess the descriptions for spells you're not supposed to have reads from unrelated areas since no translator expected the game to reach there. So depending on the translation it may either result in garbage text or, well, crashes.
I think for Sin of Mana I snuck in a table that re-maps the description to the ones of other spells.
E.g. Fireball stays Fireball but Ghost Road (formerly enemy-exclusive) gets the one from Ghost (Charlie's spell). Not perfect but at least no screen barf.

Ahh, that makes perfect sense.  Then could you please tell me how that works?  I have total of 3 spells that I need to remap the description, and instead of asking each time, if I know the mechanic, then I can just work on it (starting with Diamond Missile, which is the first skill).  Just as you did, I'll try to post the already-existing-description (at least it won't freeze the game).  I'm guessing there's some sort of "pointer" that directs the description to the spell.  Worst case scenario, I'll make one for ToM separately.

[bmathew]

Hmm.  I hesitate to do that, because MP is the real life line if you use Heal Light often.  But very well.  I'm not gonna make one of the seeds (most likely ??? Seed) restore crazy amount of MP, but I'll make it so that it can restore MT MP restore, assuming the animation works.  Probably 20 MP, just like Magic Walnut.

I was actually hoping for something that can replace Magic Walnut, meaning something more powerful than Magic Walnut.

Also, Sleep Flower sucks.  Why not also give it poison property, like what happened with SoM turbo?

[soul_knight]

Say, does Aura Wave do anything if enemy uses it?  I don't remember any enemy/boss using that, so I'm guessing it doesn't do anything.  Just random thoughts.

[praetarius5018]

Just as you did, I'll try to post the already-existing-description (at least it won't freeze the game).  I'm guessing there's some sort of "pointer" that directs the description to the spell.  Worst case scenario, I'll make one for ToM separately.

Pointer for SD3 at least is at C4BE5A +2x spellID,
except for IDs 0x50 or higher it subtracts 0x2A from that, so 0x50 is at C4BEA6 as well (very much not intended to for the spell description list),
also IDs 0x93 or higher all read the pointer from C4BF0E

It is very likely that the pointers will vary for each translation patch.
The alternative would be changing which spellID is passed there, and that requires ASM.

[hmsong]

I was actually hoping for something that can replace Magic Walnut, meaning something more powerful than Magic Walnut.

Also, Sleep Flower sucks.  Why not also give it poison property, like what happened with SoM turbo?

I'm not gonna make something to replace Magic Walnut.  The main point of "new features" of the seed usage was to use the unused-but-complete animations (with sound).  I already used 5 (Detect, Squid Ink, 100 Tentacles, Tidal Wave, Feather Blizzard), and I just needed 1 more.  I think everything else is used.  Right now, I used PsychoWave as a place holder, but I don't mind changing that to MT MP restore animation (which is unused).  But I'm not gonna make it more powerful than Magic Walnut.  Just think of that as extra item slot for Magic Walnut.

I initially gave Poison SE to Sleep Flower to see what happens.  While it worked, the Poison SE didn't get cleared after the battle ended if the victim was sleeping.  And it carried on to the next screen too.  I felt that I shouldn't mess with it.

Pointer for SD3 at least is at C4BE5A +2x spellID,
except for IDs 0x50 or higher it subtracts 0x2A from that, so 0x50 is at C4BEA6 as well (very much not intended to for the spell description list),
also IDs 0x93 or higher all read the pointer from C4BF0E

It is very likely that the pointers will vary for each translation patch.
The alternative would be changing which spellID is past there, and that requires ASM.

You're right.  I just tried it and looked at ToM, and it's all different for all different translation.  Even the J version is different.  I was hoping that I can point the new spells to the 1st spell (Diamond Missile), but the values of Diamond Missile description pointer is already different.

You said that ID 0x93 (Black Rain) and on would read from C4BF0E, but Mr Death God (A3) and Whirlwind (DA) are reading from some jibberish.  Where are those spells getting their info from?  I'm guessing it's from some script, but I don't know where the pointers are for those spells.  For example, you said that that for Sin of Mana, Ghost Road (95) took the description from Ghost, but where's the description pointer for Ghost Road?  Currently, it's pointing at some random script.  It doesn't seem to be C4BF12.

If it comes to it, I can name-point Mr Death God and Whirlwind to Ancient 2 and Ancient 3 slots, but then I will need to know where the pointers are for those spells names (description pointers, I got).

[praetarius5018]

As I said, I had to employ asm to replace the actual id passed along the check. I left the pointers alone.

[hmsong]

As I said, I had to employ asm to replace the actual id passed along the check. I left the pointers alone.

I see.  Still, if you know where the pointers are for those spell descriptions, or the pointers for the spell names are, I'd greatly appreciate it if you tell me.  If I have just one of those info, I can fix this issue.  Thanks.

[praetarius5018]

I already gave you those, and you agreed that they varied by translation used.

[hmsong]

Yes, but the description pointer only goes to spell 84 (Dark Fear), and then 93 (Black Rain).  All spells between that and after 93 point to somewhere else, and I don't know where those pointers are.  At least for the fan translation and ToM.

That's why if I knew where the name pointers are, then I can use the Ancient 2 and Ancient 3 slots.  The description for those are within the info that you gave me, meaning I can just "move" the new spells to those slots.

[praetarius5018]

Yes, but the description pointer only goes to spell 84 (Dark Fear), and then 93 (Black Rain).  All spells between that and after 93 point to somewhere else, and I don't know where those pointers are.  At least for the fan translation and ToM.

IDs 0x93 or higher all read the pointer from C4BF0E

No idea what else I should tell you there.

[hmsong]

also IDs 0x93 or higher all read the pointer from C4BF0E

Yes, but clearly, it's not the case.  Let me be specific.  The values of C4BF0E are 39 10.  This is the description for Black Rain.  So by going with what you said, Gas Cloud (0x94) would also get from C4BF0E, meaning it would also have the description for Black Rain, right?  But if you actually see the description, it's not -- it's some broken text (something about "sister Wendy").

Did I misunderstand something?

EDIT:  Wait, did you mean, "from C4BF0E and on?"  So that would mean that 0x94 would get its description from C4BF10?  And 0x95 would get its description from C4BF12?  If so, then 0x85 and 0x94 would have the same broken text, but they do not.  And when I tried to give 0x94 the values of 39 10 (Black Rain description), the game simply crashed.  Of course, crashing may have happened because C4BF10+ shouldn't be messed with, but it still doesn't explain how 0x85 and 0x94 doesn't match.  Which part did I misunderstand?  Please be patient with me.  I know I'm slow, but I'm trying.

[praetarius5018]

Maybe that was changed in trials, but in SD3 all of the spells 0x93 and above use the same pointer. Might explain why it doesn't crash in all versions.

[hmsong]

Maybe that was changed in trials, but in SD3 all of the spells 0x93 and above use the same pointer. Might explain why it doesn't crash in all versions.

I was actually looking at SD3 (fan translation).  I figured that if I understand enough about SD3, then I would be able to understand ToM.  But I'm guessing when you say, "SD3", you're not talking about the English fan translation, but actually J version.  I mean, SD3's (fan translation) 0x94 and on have broken text for the spell description.

In any case, I'm screwed, since I can't even tell where the heck the description for Mr Death God is.  Unless you perhaps know.

The only way to "fix" the error is to move the spells to Ancient 2 and Ancient 3 slot.  Do you perhaps know the address for spell name pointers?  I don't even have to touch the description, since Ancient 2 and Ancient 3 have the description from Freya (this is the same for ToM).

Edit:  It seems only Mr Death God description is the one with freezing problem for ToM.  Whirlwind doesn't freeze when I see the description.  So if I know the pointer for Mr Death God, then I can fix this (for ToM).

[soul_knight]

Hey, when Grell gets damaged, it does "Funky Dance", but it doesn't seem to do anything.  What exactly is it supposed to do?  Does anyone know?  My guts tell me that it's supposed to lower your max hp or something.

[praetarius5018]

Hey, when Grell gets damaged, it does "Funky Dance", but it doesn't seem to do anything.  What exactly is it supposed to do?  Does anyone know?  My guts tell me that it's supposed to lower your max hp or something.

I think they have two dances, one of them is flagged as debuff but has no debuffs set, so it does nothing. The other is of the "special" group (energy ball, anti-magic, aura wave) and I *think* it was set to either anti-magic or nothing at all.

[soul_knight]

Thanks.  Also, what does Bigieu's Rose Highclaw do exactly?  I initially thought it was the rolling attack, but after she uses it, her attacks are WAY up, even for her normal attacks.  And she uses her rolling attack frequently without the text box that says "Rose Highclaw".  It doesn't seem to be Power Up though, since it goes away after few seconds or so.  Actually, I'm not sure what makes it go away.

[hmsong]

Dang it.  I spent last few days, but I couldn't figure out how to change the description for Mr Death God.  And I couldn't figure out how to move skills to different slots.  Sorry, I'm just gonna leave a note in the patch to not click on the description for Mr Death God and Whirlwind.


@praetarius5018

Say, I know that for you Sin of Mana, you were able to change the text (such as equipment names).  So that means that you were able to figure out the fan translation's "Letters-to-values" formula, right?  I know that many of them probably uses some sort of combinations, but could you please tell me that formula?  I want to fix some of the spellings from the fan translation (ex:"Kamen no Doushi" to "Masked Mage", "Iormungand" to "Jormungand", etc).  I know that they're in the FB bank somewhere, so if I have some rough idea of what I'm looking for, I think I can find and fix those.

[praetarius5018]

Say, I know that for you Sin of Mana, you were able to change the text (such as equipment names).  So that means that you were able to figure out the fan translation's "Letters-to-values" formula, right?

Pfff~haha. Good joke. xD

I know that many of them probably uses some sort of combinations, but could you please tell me that formula?  I want to fix some of the spellings from the fan translation (ex:"Kamen no Doushi" to "Masked Mage", "Iormungand" to "Jormungand", etc).  I know that they're in the FB bank somewhere, so if I have some rough idea of what I'm looking for, I think I can find and fix those.

I needed some help from OmbraRD (part of a translation team) and then, of course, hack the text routine. Well, to make a long story short, whatever I did there made the hack incompatible with any other translation than the one I included.