11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Started by hmsong, October 22, 2021, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: hmsong on February 19, 2023, 07:20:12 PMSay, for the recent new skill "Grand Slam" (which is just a Lv2 ST), I don't like that name, because it's already being used by one of the bosses. So I'm thinking of giving it a different unused name. What do you think is the best name, among the following?1. Sky Attack (90)2. Revenge Spike (99)3. Bloody Axe (AC)4. Whirlwind (DA)That is, assuming none of those are actually used by any of the enemies. I don't think they are.
Quote from: soul_knight on February 20, 2023, 09:52:01 AMThey all have some sort of problem. 1, 2, and 3 doesn't really fit, as there's nothing that resembles "sky" nor "revenge" nor "axe" in that attack, and I think Evil Sword uses an ability called Whirlwind.
Quote from: soul_knight on March 10, 2023, 08:56:59 AM@hmsongHey, didn't Angela LL's Double Spell able to ST? Looking at the log, you got rid of that at some point. Why did you do that?
Quote from: joje on March 10, 2023, 09:25:43 AMThanks for the patches
Quote from: hmsong on March 11, 2023, 01:30:27 AMI did everything I can do, and I ran out of ideas.
Quote from: Mr X on March 15, 2023, 06:57:45 AM@hmsong some ideas I wanted to give, if I remember correct Hawk's spells are AGI based spells (except Wanderer's Poison Bubble), how about in order to make speed up useful, that spell boosts spell power of AGI based spells?So Speed Up - boosts agility based spells power and evasion (the defensive stat to decrease damage from such spells), Speed Down - decreases the effect of agility based spells and also lowers evasion (stat used to defend against such spells). For defense you can take the characters evasion stat for defending against such spells so Duran's high evasion shields can be useful.Energy Ball - since power up/down effect got lowered (rightfully), hoe about making Energy Ball be like an upgraded power up boosting attack more?Magic Shield - boosting Magic Def and Physical DefenseCounter Magic - Instead of reflect how about a support dpell that boosts Spell Power more than Mind Up does, similar concept as Energy Ball
Quote from: Mr X on March 15, 2023, 06:57:45 AMAny reason also btw in the class balabce - equipment patch why all accessories can be equiped by any character? Do they have different effects?
Quote from: Mr X on March 15, 2023, 06:57:45 AMAnd I wanted to apply a bunch of your patches into a single rom is there any specitic order I need to apply them? Wanted to try better monster, starting stat, less grinding, useful energy ball, and some of the clsdd balance patches, which order do you recommend to apply them or it doesn't matter which order I do?
Quote from: Mr X on March 15, 2023, 07:57:49 AMAnother idea I had in mind:Since you want to use the idea of dark classes having more power oriented, how about let's say Lise as Light-Light (Vanadise class) is physically the weakest of her classes but learns to multi-target spells that help buff spell caster oriented teams fast. While Star Lancer is physically a bit stronger than her (Light->Dark), so she learns to multi-target spells that buffs physical oriented parties fast.Similar logic with Dragon Master, lower attack than Fenrir Knight and Star Lancer (Dragobmaster is Dark->Light), learns multi target debuffs that weaken enemies defenses against spells (spell caster oriented party), while Fenrir Knight is Lise's physically strongest class (Dark-Dark) while learning to multi target debuff enemies stats beneficial physical oriented teams.For Duran you could use a similar logic:- His light classes offer greater defense compared to his dark classes, with Paladin (Light-Light) class providing more defense to magic than tp physical attacks while Lord (Light->Dark) more defense to physical attacks (and agility based spells) than Paladin, with Lord even gaining the shield eith the highest evasion.His Swordmaster class (Dark->Light) having more noticably attack power than his light classes but weaker than duelist, in exchange for that providing support with saber spells in an more effective manner, while Duelist gains a lot more attack power than Swordmaster and strongest level 3 tech in the game to make it true to the in-game description. If you want to stay true to ingame description perhaps have Paladin's Flashy Sword be a light elemental tech damage. Applying and enforcing logic from in-game decsription would also be a good way without convoluting too many ideas.For someone like Angela - Her Magician (basic) class learns 6 m elemental level 1 spells. Sorceress class (Light) learns additionally Saint Beam and 4 main elemental level 2 Spells, while Delvar (Dark) learns Dark Force. From here:Grand Divina (Light-Light) - How about Double Spell, being a non elemental spell, has the spell power of two Thunderstorm, Lava Wave and Ice Smash combined, three spells shown in the spell animation. Being Light-Light means she gains the Saint-Beam too, she has higher physical defense but lower magic defense, same spell power as Archmage. She doesn't learn to multi-target the 4 main elemental spells except Saint BeamArchmage (Light->Dark) - Using in-game descriptions she's the master of the four main elemental spells, so she learns to multi-target those spells but not Saint Beam. And learns Rainbow Dust (how about making this spell be like a weakness to non elemental enemies)Runemaster (Dark->Light) - Level 3 spells with status infliction should be her speciality, and learns Death Spell, Dark Force from Delvar class remains single target, might wanna giver her Poison Bubble and Lunatic too to make her a master of status infliction/level 3 spells, she has lower magic defense and physical defense to Angela's light classesMagus - Learns to Multi-target Dark Force, learns Half Vanish, Iceicle (from Fiegmund), Lava Wave or Heat Beam (used by Xan Bie), Learns Counter Magic (using above Counter Magic version as mean to super buff her spell power), Ancient (strongest spell power in the game, non elemental), this class has the highest spell power among her classes but again has less magic defense and physical defense than her light classesSome similar ideas with other classes as I didn't want to convolute all in one post, just wanted to give you some suggestions and ideas
Quote from: hmsong on March 15, 2023, 07:53:33 PMFirst, thanks for your input. I always enjoy new ideas, although for the most part, I lack the skills to actually apply the ideas into reality (such as what's about to happen).For Speed Up, Energy Ball, and Counter Magic, I'm afraid I lack the skills to make that. I actually wanted to have Speed Up do exactly as what you said, but I have no idea where to even start.For Magic Shield, my patch already does that (plus Evasion Up).Some accessories provide Status Effect immunity (such as Cobra Earring). I wanted all characters to have access to those, given that the character of the accessory is in your party. In addition, all characters have at least one accessory that gives immunity to a SE.Many of them do, so I specifically made it so that if you apply the patches in spelling order, you're good to go. It's much easier than to have a ton of instructions.The intent of the Class Balance patch is to make things as similar as possible to the original game, but at the same time, give the weaker classes better things to give some more "umph". In addition, to make the 1st class change more skills, as you'd be spending most time in that class.For example, I could give L classes weaker p.attack power for the girls (for the guys, L classes already have weaker power), but the original game specifically made things so that girls of L classes have the higher attack power (except for Carlie). In addition, Lise's stats (base, L and LL) affect the ENEMY's stats, meaning any change made to her changes things for the enemies. I didn't want to mess with that too much, because it would affect things way too much in ways I may not be able to predict.I'm pretty sure the reason why you suggested your ideas is so that class shades would have some consistency. I can understand that, and that was indeed one of my initial ideas. But I ultimately decided against that, mainly because of Lise's stats affecting enemy's stats (most spells would do less damage against the enemies, which is not what I wanted).As for Angela, let's cover one at a time.- Your idea for 1st class change is the same as the original game. The problem I had with her in the original game is that D class is severely underpowered as a result (she only learned 1 spell, which isn't even good because of its Dark element). I really really didn't like that. But at the same time, there are only 12 slots of spells that a character can have, so I had to change things around to make all classes (1st and 2nd class) useful.- Double Spell having the power of Thunderstorm, Lava Wave, and Ice Smash is kinda hard, because that's not how the spell system's damage output works. The spell damage output works like this -- [(INT multiplier + additional power) * buff] - (M.DEF * buff). Thunderstorm has the power multiplier of 8 (of INT stat), Lava Wave has multiplier of 10, and Ice Smash has the multiplier of 6, so if I were to add them up, it'll be multiplier of whooping 24. The upper limit of multiplier is 15 in the game. And the default power of Double Spell already has that. I simply changed the "additional power" slightly, to make it not so underpowered, relative to Ancient.- Your idea of Runemaster would be unbelievably powerful. All Lv3 spells + Poison Bubble + Death Spell? Also, Angela doesn't have enough spell slots to learn those (+ 6 Lv1 spells + Dark Force + 4 Lv3 spells + Poison Bubble + Death Spell = 13 -- the limit is 12). It's a different story if I can make the character "forget" or "replace" the learned skills, but I have no idea how to do that.
Quote from: Mr X on March 16, 2023, 03:45:03 AMAs for Double Spell, Ancient how about Double Spell staying non elemental while Ancient being actually a level 4 so to speak elemental spell (if it's possible to make spells stronger than Angela's level 3 spells), so let's say Ancient becomes a Fire or Earth elemental Level 4 spell, and with that logic making Rainbow Dust a level 4 Light elemental spell, while Double Spell stays non elemental.
Quote from: Mr X on March 16, 2023, 03:45:03 AMI think Runemaster wouldn't be able to learn every status based spell anyway, so probably just Death Spell and the four main elemental level 3 spells should be the max. Tho Blaze Wall inflicts no status maybe replace that with Poison Bubble? With that in mind:Sorceress only learns 4 level 2 main elemental spells, Grand Divina learns then Blaze Wall and Double Spell, meanwhile Archmage learns Saint Bwam (to multi target) and multi targets the 4 level 2 main elemental spells. And learns rainbow dust (would be cool if light elemental attribute gets added to this spell same with ancient to make them different from double spell). While Magus gimmick being learning forbidden spells, like ancient and spells that aren't owned by the 8 spirits being the logic.
Quote from: Mr X on March 16, 2023, 03:45:03 AMAlso have got to check the readme for some of your patches, not a huge fan of Bigieu having her weakness completely removed just because Koren and Heath are non elemental, I think that's one of the features that made her different from them, others being she's physical oriented (or a red mage), and is a monster cat, while the other two are more like true spell casters and are humans.
Quote from: Mr X on March 16, 2023, 03:45:03 AMIs it possible also to lower the experience required slightly more than it already is in your patch? I kinda like the idea of playing the game with the majority of the classes being the final, iirc in the trials of mana remake you could start the quests for hunting the benevodons with final class changes ready. Thoughts on following the same logic?
Quote from: Mr X on March 16, 2023, 06:34:40 AMNot that big of a fan weapon/armor seeds also being moved so late in the game, at least I hope when those enemies frop the chest it's a guaranteed drop as there's 12 of them to upgrade, that's a lot only to be used for a little. I think they should be more spread out.Unless they break stat cap past 300 or offer some bonus there's no reason to get them except the weapons and Duran's shields which do offer bonuses. Edit:By the time I got 12 seeds and used the cheat methods to get the desired item I wanted on the pots, I reached cap stat with level ups alone, only weapons offered a noticeable stat bonus. Some armor raised +1 magic defense but no physical defense as it was already 300, some not even 1, but one point is worthless anyway unless it offers some other bonus which I couldn't identify in gameplay, otherwise I spent worthless time grinding in the final dungeon, for one boss fight, for no bonus (except weapons to an extend).Tho maybe not that big of a deal for a lot of people, just my initial thoughts overall.
Quote from: hmsong on March 15, 2023, 07:53:33 PMFor example, I could give L classes weaker p.attack power for the girls (for the guys, L classes already have weaker power), but the original game specifically made things so that girls of L classes have the higher attack power (except for Carlie). In addition, Lise's stats (base, L and LL) affect the ENEMY's stats, meaning any change made to her changes things for the enemies. I didn't want to mess with that too much, because it would affect things way too much in ways I may not be able to predict.
Quote from: hmsong on March 16, 2023, 07:02:46 PMFirst of all, if I were to make Runemaster learn the 4 Lv3 spells and Death Spell, then I would have to make the D class only learn 1 spell (which is Dark Force), which brings back the same problem as before (remember, my goal was to make her D class a bit more useful). In addition, Poison Bubble is too powerful to combine with other powerful spells, because it absorbs MP from the enemy (usually 30~40 per spell), meaning whichever class has Poison Bubble + powerful spells (ex: DeathSpell), would dominate the game with impunity. That's throwing out the "balance" part of the patch.
Quote from: soul_knight on March 17, 2023, 05:23:53 AMCan't you switch things so that Lise's D classes have higher attack power? I mean, you already gave Lise higher attack power than vanilla (Lise's power was 18-20, but your balance patch made them all have 20-21). And they all have same Def. Int and Spi affects magic attack and magic defense respectively, so I don't know how that'll work if switched.
Quote from: soul_knight on March 17, 2023, 05:23:53 AMIf you think making her D class learning only one spell is bad for class 1, then how about making it MT? That'll put her in a different/unique situation, no? It may be only 1 spell, but it can clear the entire room, assuming enemies don't have Dark defense (I think most enemies in the God Beast dungeons have no defense against Dark, except in the Moon dungeon).
Quote from: soul_knight on March 17, 2023, 05:23:53 AMAnd her LD is already the most powerful class, because she has Fire 3 spell, which lowers enemy's m.def, and she has Poison Bubble, which is very powerful and absorbs MP. And if necessary, you can just buy all the Specter's Eye to use Anti Magic against the target, which disables all element defense.
QuoteI wouldn't want the final spells to have any elements. I mean, the game already lacks non-element spells, so having them remain non element seems necessary. Esp Ancient. And Rainbow being holy element doesn't make sense, since if you look at the animation, it uses the fire/water/wind/earth spirits.
Quote from: hmsong on March 17, 2023, 10:30:36 PMI really wish there was a non-element INT/PIE spell that's not too weak nor too powerful that fits with Angela D theme (so no summon, as she's not a summoner). I can't think of any.
Quote from: Mr X on March 18, 2023, 02:07:06 AMThe problem with that it makes them the same spell with just a different animation, ancient freezing the screen the longest, that'a the only difference.And I thought light spell because:1) It's probably easier to attach one element instead if all four, but if hmsong can do that then cool. Or other alternative make non elemental enemies be weak to rainbow dust.2) In case those are difficult then the next alternative being having an alternative level 3 light spell that's multi target which wisp lacks the equivalent of blaze wall, death spell, stone cloud etc., if it's easier than the other above mentioned optionsOtherwise if all 3 remain non elemental there's no difference to what these spells do, only animation changes.
Quote from: soul_knight on March 18, 2023, 07:53:05 AMAren't there some enemy spells that do n/e damage? I remember you telling me that most god beast unique magic is n/e.I think Rainbow Dust is now a MT buff spell (not a very useful one, due to its time running out so quickly). So it's between Double Spell and Ancient. And I think Ancient is simply stronger, similar to how Explode is stronger than Fireball. Not entirely sure about that, but the MP cost is different, so I assume so.
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