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Author Topic: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion  (Read 78340 times)

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #400 on: December 26, 2021, 08:36:11 pm »
if I include that then in the damage formula, so doesn't matter where the spell comes from.

the aggro depletion is mostly interesting for bosses.

and the combo would happen anyway with regular randomness.
just not an aggro reaction with itself (unless you throw a lot of quick low luck hits while the game has its usual lag issues)

I see.  I think +15 aggro for melee is a bit big (not counting luck adjust), but I'll have to try it out.  I'm more worried against a group of the regular enemies though, due to their low aggro threshold.  Bug again, I'll have to try it out.  I can see why you'd have hard time with Luck Adjust.  I tried something like, [Enemy Level - (Luck * 3)], but oh boy, luck is affecting things a lot -- you with 15 Luck, the Lv50 enemies are gonna kick your ass, because it'll just add +5 to melee.  And the players will be too busy raising their STR, VIT, and INT throughout the entire game, so they won't even have room to raise their luck until Lv50 or so.  Yikes.

I do think that at early parts of the game (beginning ~ jewel eater) should give the players a break, and no enemies should counter -- you have so little resource, and money is an issue at that point.  Even the healing item is limited to only round drop x9 per battle.

I'd appreciate it if you can make it compatible with No Skill Counter -- that way, players can choose to be only countered by melee and not magic.

soul_knight

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #401 on: December 27, 2021, 09:51:08 pm »
@praetarius5018

Hey.  I saw your SD3 run video on youtube using TAS.  Do you run that TAS channel?  You played the J version, so I'm guessing you can read Japanese and stuff.  I'm quite jelly about that.

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #402 on: December 28, 2021, 02:32:32 am »
so I'm guessing you can read Japanese and stuff.
I wish...
there's nothing complicated about SD3 - items have their icons, spells shouldn't be used, dialog options are always in the same place. And if something comes up during making a TAS - rewind, temporarely translate the ROM, then you know what's up and then undo that.

soul_knight

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #403 on: December 28, 2021, 07:51:12 am »
I wish...
there's nothing complicated about SD3 - items have their icons, spells shouldn't be used, dialog options are always in the same place. And if something comes up during making a TAS - rewind, temporarely translate the ROM, then you know what's up and then undo that.

Oh.  In that case, why intentionally use the J version, instead of the fan translated version, or Trials of Mana?  Or does TAS not work with anything other than J version?

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #404 on: December 28, 2021, 01:46:10 pm »
Oh.  In that case, why intentionally use the J version, instead of the fan translated version, or Trials of Mana?  Or does TAS not work with anything other than J version?
At that time there was no official translation and just random hacks aren't allowed if you want to TAS the original game.

soul_knight

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #405 on: December 28, 2021, 05:32:44 pm »
At that time there was no official translation and just random hacks aren't allowed if you want to TAS the original game.

The video is from a week ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r70RLve6mCU

I'm guessing the guy who's in charge of the channel is using your video without your permission.

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #406 on: December 28, 2021, 05:58:07 pm »
The video is from a week ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r70RLve6mCU

I'm guessing the guy who's in charge of the channel is using your video without your permission.
nah, is ok.
also: "originally published on 2011-12-22", typical youtube stuff

soul_knight

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #407 on: December 28, 2021, 08:02:07 pm »
nah, is ok.
also: "originally published on 2011-12-22", typical youtube stuff

Whoops.  Didn't see that.  My bad.

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #408 on: December 29, 2021, 02:08:29 am »
nah, is ok.
also: "originally published on 2011-12-22", typical youtube stuff

Wow.  A literal decade.  Posted on exact same date a decade later.  Probably intended.

Goros Lair

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #409 on: December 29, 2021, 12:17:18 pm »
Hello guys! I've seen you've been explaining about the three player patch. Well, the original place for It is here at Romhacking, the author is named Parlance and recently he has explained that he's tried to fix the bugs, but he couldn't. Under these conditions, why don't you guys work together for fixing that? I believe It would be one of the most wanted hacks currently.

Parlance's hack - https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/179/

Parlance's comments - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pejV4vCF6TM
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 12:25:22 pm by Goros Lair »

nosynose

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #410 on: December 29, 2021, 09:43:43 pm »
Hi all.
Opponent's counter is definitely problematic in SD3. However, I know nothing about SD3 hacking and romhacking in general. So I'll just throw my random, probably silly suggestions:
-Maybe LUCK could be used to lower the opponent's counter chance? The higher the character's LUCK, the lower the opponent's eventual chance to counter?
-But random counter seems problematic too from what I've read here. So maybe throw another dice roll? A chance to have a chance of counter?

@hmsong
Hey, glad to see this SD3 thread.
I've yet to finish my 5th playthrough, though, if you still remember those. Gosh, I think I spent more time to apply patches than to actually play these games.

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2021, 06:26:44 am »
Hi all.
Opponent's counter is definitely problematic in SD3. However, I know nothing about SD3 hacking and romhacking in general. So I'll just throw my random, probably silly suggestions:
-Maybe LUCK could be used to lower the opponent's counter chance? The higher the character's LUCK, the lower the opponent's eventual chance to counter?
-But random counter seems problematic too from what I've read here. So maybe throw another dice roll? A chance to have a chance of counter?

You probably haven't been following this thread for a while.  Praetarius5018 incorporated Luck stats into the counter for a while now.  But due to flaws here and there about the counters, he's working on something new with counters that will hopefully satisfy many more people.  Numerous people here (including myself) have been pitching ideas about that.

MD_Prometh

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #412 on: December 30, 2021, 07:59:38 am »
Has anyone attempted a hack that fixes the text font?

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #413 on: December 30, 2021, 05:50:17 pm »
Has anyone attempted a hack that fixes the text font?

If I knew how to mess with the fonts, I would fix the text errors first (spelling, names, etc).  If you know how to do any of that, I'd appreciate some help.

MD_Prometh

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #414 on: December 30, 2021, 07:41:51 pm »
If I knew how to mess with the fonts, I would fix the text errors first (spelling, names, etc).  If you know how to do any of that, I'd appreciate some help.

The official translation has text errors? Had no idea

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #415 on: December 30, 2021, 09:16:47 pm »
The official translation has text errors? Had no idea

For fan translation, text errors.  For official, some of the names that I just didn't like.

nosynose

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #416 on: December 31, 2021, 09:58:15 pm »
You probably haven't been following this thread for a while.  Praetarius5018 incorporated Luck stats into the counter for a while now.  But due to flaws here and there about the counters, he's working on something new with counters that will hopefully satisfy many more people.  Numerous people here (including myself) have been pitching ideas about that.
I did follow this thread, though I don't understand the technical details. Praetarius5018 stated that even 1% counter chance still likely result on 3 counters in a row. My conclusion from it is that the RNG is kinda broken/faulty. If that RNG is unfixable, then another dice roll may help to effectively reduce the percentage below %1 chance, to compensate for the RNG deficiency.
When the bad RNG is taken care of, LUCK and counter interaction could now be simplified. Say counter will default to 25% chance (with proper RNG). Then one point of LUCK equals -1 % counter chance, so 20 points of LUCK equals -20 % counter chance, ie. 5% counter chance, which seems reasonable.
Just my 2 cents.

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #417 on: January 01, 2022, 04:40:18 am »
I did follow this thread, though I don't understand the technical details. Praetarius5018 stated that even 1% counter chance still likely result on 3 counters in a row. My conclusion from it is that the RNG is kinda broken/faulty. If that RNG is unfixable, then another dice roll may help to effectively reduce the percentage below %1 chance, to compensate for the RNG deficiency.
That sounds more like a value hmsong would whine about; I mean I made it currently so that with max luck you can trigger counters at 5.6% with melee strikes.

The issue is that RNG can just screw you over no matter the percentage.
Having the enemy decide to cast a spell by themselves and then triggering 2 counters at that time can happen with any percentage. If everyone had Hawk's luck it would still happen 0.3% of the time with 2 consecutive hits; with worse luck and more hits flying around 2 reactions would easily happen 10% of the time or so (too many unknowns to math that out)
That's why I'm thinking about making it an "aggro meter" instead; that way you get at worst the regular cast + 1 counter.

But atm I'm not sure which values/formula I should use for that; if it is too low, regular enemies will never get that counter.


When the bad RNG is taken care of, LUCK and counter interaction could now be simplified. Say counter will default to 25% chance (with proper RNG). Then one point of LUCK equals -1 % counter chance, so 20 points of LUCK equals -20 % counter chance, ie. 5% counter chance, which seems reasonable.
Just my 2 cents.
No, that is unreasonable.
Counter AI exists already at low levels when you have 2~6 luck; 23% chance per hit to get killed is too much.

nosynose

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #418 on: January 01, 2022, 07:33:51 am »
That's why I'm thinking about making it an "aggro meter" instead; that way you get at worst the regular cast + 1 counter.

But atm I'm not sure which values/formula I should use for that; if it is too low, regular enemies will never get that counter.
Okay then, an idea on top of the aggro meter. Don't set it too low for the sake of regular enemies, but LUCK is now a direct percentage that the character's hits will reduce the opponent's running aggro meter by 1 point or a couple points (or even reset it), which in effect delays the counter execution. So 10 points of LUCK means 10% chance for the hits to lower the aggro meter.

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #419 on: January 01, 2022, 02:32:41 pm »
Okay then, an idea on top of the aggro meter. Don't set it too low for the sake of regular enemies, but LUCK is now a direct percentage that the character's hits will reduce the opponent's running aggro meter by 1 point or a couple points (or even reset it), which in effect delays the counter execution. So 10 points of LUCK means 10% chance for the hits to lower the aggro meter.
Sounds counterproductive; if there was a aggro meter system it should imo be mostly predictable.
RNG chance to randomly reset is wouldn't be.