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Author Topic: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion  (Read 78701 times)

Red Soul

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #240 on: November 18, 2021, 03:56:58 pm »
Will do but not this month anymore.

Would be nice if those that play it would provide their feedback to my changes (spelldamage, casttime, counter rate, exp rate, crits, evade rate, ...) by then in case something needs further tweaking.

I'll make sure to fill adequately detailed reports when I start my 1.8 playthrough. I'll sort them by Lv and area.

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #241 on: November 18, 2021, 07:49:34 pm »
Will do but not this month anymore.

Would be nice if those that play it would provide their feedback to my changes (spelldamage, casttime, counter rate, exp rate, crits, evade rate, ...) by then in case something needs further tweaking.

Good idea.

soul_knight

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #242 on: November 18, 2021, 11:55:25 pm »
I got two that I noticed.
1. Stardust Herb seems to cure SE, as well as remove all buff/debuff/saber/barrier.  Isn't Stardust Herb supposed to only move magical effects, and not SE?

2. If you talk to Forcena fortune teller after certain point, he initially starts talking about 99/1% thing, then before you can confirm anything, the dialog box immediately proceeds to him saying that he has a headache.  I think in the original game, he would just go immediately go to saying that he has a headache.  I'm guessing bugfix did something to that (which I like), but could you make it so that you can confirm, before he proceeds to saying that he has a headache? (it'll make it seem like that your characters are the only ones that cause him to have headache)

Red Soul

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #243 on: November 19, 2021, 01:35:38 am »
I got two that I noticed.
1. Stardust Herb seems to cure SE, as well as remove all buff/debuff/saber/barrier.  Isn't Stardust Herb supposed to only move magical effects, and not SE?

2. If you talk to Forcena fortune teller after certain point, he initially starts talking about 99/1% thing, then before you can confirm anything, the dialog box immediately proceeds to him saying that he has a headache.  I think in the original game, he would just go immediately go to saying that he has a headache.  I'm guessing bugfix did something to that (which I like), but could you make it so that you can confirm, before he proceeds to saying that he has a headache? (it'll make it seem like that your characters are the only ones that cause him to have headache)

I can't recall with 100% certainity now, but I think the dialogue flow is just as described anyway; the bugfix did nothing to change it at all, but I'll confirm on my next playthrough.

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #244 on: November 19, 2021, 08:51:41 am »
@praetarius5018

Hey.  Do you think you can get the Detect program working properly?  That is, spell type flag 17.  Currently, it starts to analyze (current HP, max HP, weakness), but gets overrun with weird texts that doesn't end properly.  Players can use another spell or something to overwrite the overrun text to end the weird text, but I'd really like to see Detect being complete (I assigned the incomplete version to Item Seed to my Shop patch).



@aitchfactor

Hey, do you mind if I put your patch link to my main post?  Seems like yours is compatible with other hacks.

Red Soul

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #245 on: November 19, 2021, 07:04:35 pm »
@HMSong:

I got around to jotting down those damage ranges you asked for, here you go:

Duran:

Quote
Lv46 Sword Master Duran
     21str/Levateinn (311 atk)

vs. Lv44 Death Machine
98-100 (201)

Vs. Lv44 High Wizard
137-138 (237-239)

Vs. Lv 44 Dark Lord
98-99 (202-203)

Hawk:

Quote

Lv46 Ninja Master Hawk
     17 str/Acala (258 atk)

vs. Lv44 Death Machine
34-36 (143-144)

Vs. Lv44 High Wizard
63-64 (172-173)

Vs. Lv 44 Dark Lord
34-35 (142-143)

Kevin:

Quote

Lv46 Death Hand Kevin
     18str/Rotten Knuckle (271 atk)

vs. Lv44 Death Machine
44-46 (128-130)   [Daytime]
109-110 (193-194) [Nighttime]


Vs. Lv44 High Wizard
73-74 (157-158)   [Daytime]
138-139 (232-233) [Nighttime]

Vs. Lv 44 Dark Lord

45-46 (129-130)   [Daytime]
109-110 (162-163) [Nighttime]

aitchfactor

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #246 on: November 19, 2021, 11:35:24 pm »
[\quote]
Hey, do you mind if I put your patch link to my main post?  Seems like yours is compatible with other hacks.
@hmsong
Sure thing.

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #247 on: November 20, 2021, 05:19:47 am »
@Red Soul

Thanks.  I actually asked for Great Demon, not Death Machine, but it doesn't matter, as I got the data I need.  Now, we know for sure that Duran outdamages Hawk against later enemies, not counting crit.  That's good.  Death Hand Werewolf Kevin still stomps everyone, but that was expected (it'd be weird if he didn't).  Thanks for your help.



@aitchfactor

Okay, it's up now.

Red Soul

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #248 on: November 20, 2021, 05:22:52 am »
@Red Soul

Thanks.  I actually asked for Great Demon, not Death Machine, but it doesn't matter, as I got the data I need.  Now, we know for sure that Duran outdamages Hawk against later enemies, not counting crit.  That's good.  Werewolf Kevin still stomps everyone, but that was expected (it'd be weird if he didn't).  Thanks for your help.

Oops, that's true, sorry!

Now I'll probably finish the playthrough I was originally doing, then start a 1.8 one. Hopefully I can be helpful to both you and Praetarius by doing so.

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #249 on: November 20, 2021, 06:01:40 am »
I got around to jotting down those damage ranges you asked for, here you go
The Kevin night values seem too high; did he get hit after transforming? Wolfform should be +10% now, so maybe 30 raw damage more or ~22 with the penalty. Having it nearly triple that looks like he also got the power up buff from getting hit (is exactly the same buff as casting pressure point or the power up spell).


Hey.  Do you think you can get the Detect program working properly?  That is, spell type flag 17.  Currently, it starts to analyze (current HP, max HP, weakness), but gets overrun with weird texts that doesn't end properly.  Players can use another spell or something to overwrite the overrun text to end the weird text, but I'd really like to see Detect being complete (I assigned the incomplete version to Item Seed to my Shop patch).
Don't think so. From my understanding all the type 17 does is call a text box. In unpatched J version I get an HP/maxHP readout, not sure what the second line means, I can't read japanese.


My guess is that a given translation patch breaks the relevant text template or a pointer because of text compression.

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #250 on: November 20, 2021, 06:12:24 am »
The Kevin night values seem too high; did he get hit after transforming? Wolfform should be +10% now, so maybe 30 raw damage more or ~22 with the penalty. Having it nearly triple that looks like he also got the power up buff from getting hit (is exactly the same buff as casting pressure point or the power up spell).

Oh yeah, I think you mentioned that Kevin gets power buff from getting hit or something.  I hope you fix that by the next patch.

Don't think so. From my understanding all the type 17 does is call a text box. In unpatched J version I get an HP/maxHP readout, not sure what the second line means, I can't read japanese.


My guess is that a given translation patch breaks the relevant text template or a pointer because of text compression.

The last one line is "Jakuten", which means weak point.  Not sure about what's said afterwards.  I guess it's the fault of the the fan translation that the flag 17 got messed up.

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #251 on: November 20, 2021, 06:23:55 am »
Oh yeah, I think you mentioned that Kevin gets power buff from getting hit or something.  I hope you fix that by the next patch.
I'm not sure if it is a bug or not; what happens is that upon transformation his "buffs" gets set to "only power up active" but the attack recalculation only happens when he gets hit.

hmsong

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #252 on: November 20, 2021, 08:08:13 am »
I'm not sure if it is a bug or not; what happens is that upon transformation his "buffs" gets set to "only power up active" but the attack recalculation only happens when he gets hit.

I see.  I guess this is where "hacker's call" comes in.  What I know is that with the "get hit = buff", Kevin is even more powerful, and the idea of lowering his werewolf form's power was to weaken him a bit (to give other characters a chance), and perhaps disabling the hit=buff can count towards weakening Kevin.  Well, unless there's some sort of problem for "fixing" that.

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #253 on: November 20, 2021, 08:22:29 am »
I see.  I guess this is where "hacker's call" comes in.  What I know is that with the "get hit = buff", Kevin is even more powerful, and the idea of lowering his werewolf form's power was to weaken him a bit (to give other characters a chance), and perhaps disabling the hit=buff can count towards weakening Kevin.  Well, unless there's some sort of problem for "fixing" that.
nah, that's a one byte change.
12C9AF 40 -> 00, done

Red Soul

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #254 on: November 20, 2021, 03:49:18 pm »
Personally I think it is cool if he has a slight edge due to damage recalculation, and it would be pointless to use him if he ends up just slightly above Hawk in damage. It is not a decisive difference but it adds some spice.

November 20, 2021, 03:57:19 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
The Kevin night values seem too high; did he get hit after transforming? Wolfform should be +10% now, so maybe 30 raw damage more or ~22 with the penalty. Having it nearly triple that looks like he also got the power up buff from getting hit (is exactly the same buff as casting pressure point or the power up spell).

Yeah at times he did get hit. Do you mean immediately after transforming or in normal combat after transforming?
I also used dreamsee herbs to quickly shift between night and day as needed, if it means anything.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 03:57:19 pm by Red Soul »

praetarius5018

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #255 on: November 20, 2021, 04:09:53 pm »
Personally I think it is cool if he has a slight edge due to damage recalculation, and it would be pointless to use him if he ends up just slightly above Hawk in damage. It is not a decisive difference but it adds some spice.
If I see your data correctly, he deals 10~15 damage more on a non-crit and the same amount less on a crit compared to Hawk, so if crit rate was 50% they'd have same dps, but even with energy ball it is way lower which favors Kevin already. +10% atk during night time (without power up) gives him around 2.5 times that.
Imo that is fine for the difference of utility (Hawk with buffs or debuffs) vs raw dps (Kevin).

I dunno, I think +10% AND power up buff is a bit much for a quickish "cast" of transform (if you compare it to self-casting power up or pressure point).


Yeah at times he did get hit. Do you mean immediately after transforming or in normal combat after transforming?
I also used dreamsee herbs to quickly shift between night and day as needed, if it means anything.
When he starts transforming the game sets the power up flag on him, the attack update only triggers when he his HP changes (damage or heal) or he gets hit by a (de)buff.
So I wanted to know if his damage values were with such a trigger (I guess yes) or not.

Red Soul

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #256 on: November 20, 2021, 04:28:26 pm »
When he starts transforming the game sets the power up flag on him, the attack update only triggers when he his HP changes (damage or heal) or he gets hit by a (de)buff.
So I wanted to know if his damage values were with such a trigger (I guess yes) or not.

I can look into this specific issue more carefully if you'd like.

Messianic

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #257 on: November 20, 2021, 05:54:58 pm »
Quote from: praetarius5018


My guess is that a given translation patch breaks the relevant text template or a pointer because of text compression.

So that phrase is 光素魔法 which means "light elemental magic," with 光 being light, 素 being elemental, and 魔法 being magic. This must be in reference to the bat enemy.

Red Soul

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #258 on: November 20, 2021, 06:01:37 pm »
Probably the weakness, right?

Messianic

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion
« Reply #259 on: November 20, 2021, 06:57:37 pm »
yes hmsong already mentioned the up above the first word means weakness