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Author Topic: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida  (Read 36732 times)

RodMerida

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #100 on: June 21, 2021, 09:01:03 am »
Hello, friend.
Don't worry: I got aware of that Gwaelin thing (how celtic name, by the way! It seems Welsh or Irish) thanks to Lolpuddy31's useful reports, and I think it was fixed in 1.03 update.
About DQ vs DW terminology, I've seen this criterium was applied by RPGOne for names of places, but not for names of spells, and I'm respecting the terminology that just I found since it seems to be the most widely known in English-speaking countries thanks to old NES localizations.
Just Firebal has been fixed to Fireball.

But about objects I'm not sure what's being the criterium.
Is Eye of Malroth an item, or a place?

P.S.: where did that Samantha overflow happen?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 12:35:50 pm by RodMerida »

saldite

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #101 on: June 21, 2021, 09:10:54 am »
The Statue of Evil/Eye of Malroth is an object. Putting in spoilers for others just in case:
Spoiler:
Later in Dragon Quest II, you end up exploring a volcano area and collect an item that is needed to enter the last area of the game. In the NES release, the item you collect was referred to as "Eye of Malroth". In the GBC version, it's referred to as "Evil Statue", and "False Idol" in newer localizations. In this patch itself, the item is "Statue of Evil", but the NPC hint regarding it still calls it "Eye of Malroth", probably due to the orignal patch having split naming from the two different patches.

https://dragonquest.fandom.com/wiki/False_idol is where I found out they were the same item, just named differently depending on the translation.

I'll see if I can get you a screenshot later on for the Samantha issue. I know it mainly happened when casting some spells on the field (i.e. HealMore/HealAll).

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #102 on: June 21, 2021, 09:26:48 am »
Okay, but look.
Can't you accept another kind of non-moving splash screen with a background image?
You really considere THAT intrusive something like that?
Our whole agenda is that of removing arbitrary alterations or additions by western sources, be that by localizers or hackers. We did maintain a few western improvements to the games which we felt brought genuine value, but even with those, I'm open to providing options to remove them down the road. We are not interested in maintaining alterations just for the sake of. We want a product that presents like an authentic release that could have been. A static screen won't cut it, unfortunately. We are more than happy to provide credits to any contributor, props on the publish page description, in the readme notes, etc.

Quote
If the thing is so distorted and unfaithful like your Niponologist friend says you have my blessings, of course. I remove you the splash screen (if you have not done it by yourself already). But let me see some material about those distorsions so I can make myself an idea of the dimension of the problem. If the thing is serious I will help in whatever I can.
I could even use that for retranslating my own Spanish translation (even though you can't imagine how lazy I feel about that idea).
I appreciate you taking translation integrity seriously and being open to exploring these matters. More to come.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 10:24:37 am by Chicken Knife »

RodMerida

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #103 on: June 21, 2021, 10:48:19 am »
Why3132456
Your point is silly. Somebody can know the grammar of a language, not having lived in the country, having accent and making inconscious mistakes when typing fast without noticing, due to his mother tongue interference or to just a little of dislexia (that becomes bigger in a foreign language).
For example:

consider not making such simple mistakes in your post.
Since when changing a little the order of adverbs and other peripheral elements in a sentence is a "grammar mistake" and a synonymous of not knowing the grammar of a language?
Those are matters of diction and style.* They are idiolectal elements of speech, typical of some foreigners, non-typical in native speakers.
You have read few barocque poetry!, there they tend to change the order in sentences much more, with hiperbaton.


Quote from: why3132456
if you admitted to being a non-native speaker
I do in that post you are quoting. Look:
Quote from: RodMerida
I have been my whole life studying languages, including English (but not only English). But I'm not native.
And you can be native or non-native to a place or country (like adjetive). You don't necessarily need to be or not be a native (like noun).

Quote from: RodMerida
That means I'm probably not so qualified for making a professional translation to English (I may sound 'foreigner' at some moment, without noticing)
Where is the pretending?
Did you notice the quotes in here, by the way?
It's not the same to sound like a foreigner (noun) than to sound 'foreigner' (that means your speech sounds in a foreign way).

Let's go on with the nonsense:
but as a translator, you might want to take more feedback.

That's why I don't make translation to English, but FROM English to my own native language, Spanish.
And in this post, too:
That means I'm probably not so qualified for making a professional translation to English
For being an "ex non-native" you have some lack of comprehensive reading.


if you admitted to being a non-native speaker with little experience (I was once a non-native speaker too)
"If you amitted to being"? That's a grammar mistake. It's very native from your part. Thanks for enlightening me.


Usually I would say this is the last time I do any patch for the English-speaking community. Last time I port anything from Spanish to English. But then I remind you are not 'native'. You're just a wannabe.


(For respect to other people, I think it's enough with falacia ad hominem and metalinguistic off-topics).


June 21, 2021, 01:55:39 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Our whole agenda is that of removing arbitrary alterations or additions by western sources, be that by localizers or hackers. We did maintain a few western improvements to the games which we felt brought genuine value, but even with those, I'm open to providing options to remove them down the road. We are not interested in maintaining alterations just for the sake of. We want a product that presents like an authentic release that could have been. A static screen won't cut it, unfortunately. We are more than happy to provide credits to any contributor, props on the publish page description, in the readme notes, etc.
I appreciate you taking translation integrity seriously and being open to exploring these matters. More to come.

Chicken Knife. It's not the same inside the ROM than in a Readme. Because the Readme can be easily erased, removed or lost, or won't be there if somebody records the game in a cartridge, but inside the ROM it's called to be conserved.
Something inside the ROM that is not too invasive with the game is a warranty of immortalizing it.
That's why splash screens are important.

They are not invasive with the game and you don't need to wait until final ending credits after completing the game for being known, so everybody will see who made it.

Imagine, with so many webpages that may take the patched ROM and put it for download, after decades who will remind who was there in the readme? Few people.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 03:55:12 pm by RodMerida »

svenge

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #104 on: June 21, 2021, 02:00:53 pm »
Last time I port anything from Spanish to English. But then I remind you are not 'native'. You're just an anglosaxon newbie.


(For respect to other people, I think it's enough with falacia ad hominem and metalinguistic off-topics).

I find it amusing when your sort tries wielding "anxglosaxon" [sic] as an insult.  At least we Anglo-Saxons haven't spent the last 300+ years on a long terminal decline to geopolitical and cultural irrelevance.

RodMerida

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #105 on: June 21, 2021, 02:07:14 pm »
I find it amusing when your sort tries wielding "anxglosaxon" [sic] as an insult.  At least we Anglo-Saxons haven't spent the last 300+ years on a long terminal decline to geopolitical and cultural irrelevance.

The "insult" here was not anglosaxon, was "newbie". Lol. Wanting to pretend to be something you are not, I don't know why, and trying to ridiculize others for not sounding like a native in a foreign language.
You understood me reversed.

goldenband

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #106 on: June 21, 2021, 03:25:21 pm »
What are those DQ3 bugs that you say, by the way? That interests me. Could you list them to me?

On DQ3, the big one is a save issue if you save with somebody other than the hero in the first party slot. It's a pretty bug-free patch overall, but I know I got hit by that one on accident myself and it killed my progress at the time I played it. You can see it in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvcRr8uN2sQ The readme mentions something with spellnames and text overflows, but the save one is the big one I ran into (and pretty easy to avoid if you know about it).

Great to see that a conversation about DQ3 is happening! Yes, that save bug is pretty lethal, and easy to avoid but also easy to trigger. Besides the additional stuff mentioned in the README, there are scattered reports of other bugs but it's not always clear whether people are commenting on the 1.1 version or an earlier patch.

I'd forgotten that the Dragon Quest VI patch was flat-out unfinished!

saldite

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #107 on: June 21, 2021, 03:51:04 pm »
I'd forgotten that the Dragon Quest VI patch was flat-out unfinished!
Yeah, that one's really unfortunate. I lack the skills myself to tackle any project like that, but would definitely love to see it. It seems like it's been left at the wayside over time after the DS version came out, which is a shame as the SNES version definitely has its own charms and differences with many still claiming it's the best one due to being an incredibly pretty SNES game, the OST differences, monster catching mechanics, etc. It's finishable from beginning to end on SNES, but not fully polished.

Having a bug-fixed version with even simple translations for the unfinished/dummied stuff would be really dope.

I remember Tom on twitter mentioned a possible interest in hitting it at some point with DDS, but I get the impression that's up in the air.

Red Soul

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #108 on: June 21, 2021, 04:27:05 pm »
Yes. Nothing can change TERRA was TINA, but TERRA improved it. Unless you prefere to play reminding "Tina Turner". Come on, don't compare TERRA, so enigmatic, so mystic name, with... "TINA", that sounds to a pop star. Who preferes that? Only in Japan where Tina doesn't have those silly pop-starry connotations.

They may have those connotatons in the west, but that's just happenstance. Again, I'm just saying accuracy to source is important, whether we like it or not. Saying "Terra" is an improvment is ultimately just a matter of opinion, even though I agree with you in this case. Sabin was Mash, and while I don't like it (mashed potatoes?) is still the most accurate to source name.


Grandleon is very beautiful, though.

Yes. Masamune is also distincitvely Japanese. If the localizer wanted to insert a Masamune in the script, at least make it one of Chrono's swords, instead.

But Magus, it's much better than... "Mao" (Tse Tung, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Mao Tse Tung! Do you imagine playing that way? It's impossible. There is even a bear trademark that is "Mahou". There is "LMAO". There are many things: no, it's impossible to restore Magus to Mao after having been improved to something so beautiful and Middle Ages-like as "Magus" is, that sounds to a mix of Latin and the Arabic or Persian word "Majūs"; it sounds to sorcery!).

Maoh is a title, Demon Lord, which ties in perfectly to what the demons turned him into; a figure of leadership. Technically everyone in the party except Robo is a "magus" a student and user of magic after Spekkio's blesing, so it's much less unique.
Again, it's not "impossible" to revert the changes, if one is going for script accuracy it is possible and desirable, and while you do give some etimological basis to support your prefernce for Magus as a moniker, you also, at the same time, ridicule the original script with comparisons that don't make any sense to me.

Another example: Schala and... Sara! LOLOLOLOLOL. It seems my neighbour! 10000 years ago there is Sara? How come?

I do prefer Schala, but again, understand that the script wasn't written with western naming averages in mind. Sara is most likely uncommon in Japan, even if it exists at all, hence why it was chosen.

If everybody drives in a country by right, you can't drive by left! You need to adapt and be normal!

I can't drive on whatever lane I want in the west, but if I went to Japan I'd need to change lanes; same thing.
Translating for accuracy is about having the intended experience, not one modified by localizers due to censorship, lack of
time, space in the ROM, the need for silly jokes or whatever consideration.

I'm not trying to be combative here, just saying that localizations are important, but efforts for patches that preserve the original naming conventions and creators' intents also are.

Also for the others in the thread, I'm sorry for the subject derrail. I know it's a DQ thread. I'll try to stop using CT to make my point. Also Rod, thanks for lending an ear.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #109 on: June 21, 2021, 04:30:49 pm »
Chicken Knife. It's not the same inside the ROM than in a Readme. Because the Readme can be easily erased, removed or lost, or won't be there if somebody records the game in a cartridge, but inside the ROM it's called to be conserved.
Something inside the ROM that is not too invasive with the game is a warranty of immortalizing it.
That's why splash screens are important.

They are not invasive with the game and you don't need to wait until final ending credits after completing the game for being known, so everybody will see who made it.

Imagine, with so many webpages that may take the patched ROM and put it for download, after decades who will remind who was there in the readme? Few people.
Depending on how invested a person is in this hobby of ours, I can see the appeal of digital fingerprints. In a way, it's better than a grave stone, since no one ever visits a grave after some years have passed. I'd like to believe that RHDN will be around forever, but who really knows?

There are, however, a few problems to consider with splash screens:

1. They have fallen out of favor with a sizable population in this community. The response to yours is testimony (though in fairness, the spinning graphic probably had something to do with it.)

2. They usually aesthetically clash with the art design of the rest of the game. I won't name names, but I can think of so many over the years where the art would make me wince every time I see it.

3. As I said before, they break the illusion of an officially released product. Perhaps they even inflame the negative sentiment that many harbor toward fan projects / hacks in general.

4. No matter how much you work to imbed them in the code of the game, due to my first point, someone is probably going to eventually disable it anyway.

What about working with the credits of the game itself? As far as a means of achieving perpetuity, I think it's more subtle, tactful, and less likely to inspire dissent. I haven't done it personally, but I've never been bothered by seeing it. And truthfully, your point about leaving a mark is compelling to me. We've tended to work with restoring localized versions of western releases rather than translating directly from the Japanese release, so it would be reasonable to wipe out the localization team's names, as we wiped out most of what they did anyway. Working with the Japanese credits might require a bit more creativity. In any case, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the idea.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 04:39:13 pm by Chicken Knife »

Red Soul

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #110 on: June 21, 2021, 04:43:32 pm »
What about working with the credits of the game itself? As far as a means of achieving perpetuity, I think it's more subtle, tactful, and less likely to inspire dissent. I haven't done it personally, but I've never been bothered by seeing it. And truthfully, your point about leaving a mark is compelling to me. We've tended to work with restoring localized versions of western releases rather than translating directly from the Japanese release, so it would be reasonable to wipe out the localization team's names, as we wiped out most of what they did anyway. Working with the Japanese credits might require a bit more creativity. In any case, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the idea.

I personally think this is the most elegant way to do it. Credit is given where it's due without truly altering the presentation. Fansubbers tend to use this approach and it's a nice solution, I think.

RodMerida

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #111 on: June 21, 2021, 04:52:20 pm »
I would agree with you with a Game like Blackthorne, for example, or like Chrono Trigger. My Spanish translation of Blackthorne has no splash screen. Chrono Trigger's one the same.

Haha. That spinning thing was an eccentricity of mine, I know. I was amazed by demoscene's nostalgia. It can be stopped and read by holding A-button anyway.

Quote from: Red Soul

I personally think this is the most elegant way to do it. Credit is given where it's due without truly altering the presentation.

They don't appear until the very end in this game. And not everybody who plays It will complete it. Also, I have other projects in my webpage and want to attract users to them, so they don't remain useless.

There is already my name/Crackowia's in the credits of DQ1+2, but I didn't want to erase RPGone's people, and that way my betatester, Vicks Dg, doesn't fit.

Anyway I have improved the thing. You'll see it in next update.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #112 on: June 21, 2021, 04:58:57 pm »
There is already my name/Crackowia's in the credits of DQ1+2, but I didn't want to erase RPGone's people, and that way my betatester, Vicks Dg, doesn't fit.

Anyway I have improved the thing. You'll see it in next update.
I think that whatever you want to do for projects that are primarily yours is fine. But to impose those personal requirements when you are a contributor to project that is primarily someone else's (in the hypothetical case of our group doing a translation), I think that's getting a little unreasonable.

RodMerida

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #113 on: June 21, 2021, 05:00:48 pm »
I was talking about this patch, man.

goldenband

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #114 on: June 21, 2021, 05:21:17 pm »
Yeah, that one's really unfortunate. I lack the skills myself to tackle any project like that, but would definitely love to see it. It seems like it's been left at the wayside over time after the DS version came out, which is a shame as the SNES version definitely has its own charms and differences with many still claiming it's the best one due to being an incredibly pretty SNES game, the OST differences, monster catching mechanics, etc. It's finishable from beginning to end on SNES, but not fully polished.

Having a bug-fixed version with even simple translations for the unfinished/dummied stuff would be really dope.

I remember Tom on twitter mentioned a possible interest in hitting it at some point with DDS, but I get the impression that's up in the air.

I agree! I've seen a few comments along the lines of "just play the DS version", which seems to assume that the SNES/SFC release doesn't have anything unique to offer -- a bold claim if the person hasn't verified that themselves. And of course, some of us just don't own a DS and aren't interested in emulating one; speaking for myself, I mostly stick to older hardware, as that's the era and style of gaming I love and I enjoy focusing on specific console libraries.

By the way there's a little bit of illuminating information about the state of DQ6 patches in this thread from 2011, which starts to get flamey but still is useful. I also link it because Ademos's very droll one-liner -- "Though I find the anthropology here compelling" -- got a rare, actual, real-life LOL from me when I read it.

Red Soul

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #115 on: June 21, 2021, 05:33:27 pm »
I agree! I've seen a few comments along the lines of "just play the DS version", which seems to assume that the SNES/SFC release doesn't have anything unique to offer -- a bold claim if the person hasn't verified that themselves. And of course, some of us just don't own a DS and aren't interested in emulating one; speaking for myself, I mostly stick to older hardware, as that's the era and style of gaming I love and I enjoy focusing on specific console libraries.

I played DQ5 SNES quite a bit, but not DQ6.
I'm curious, what are some of the unique aspects of the SNES version?

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #116 on: June 21, 2021, 05:49:21 pm »
I played DQ5 SNES quite a bit, but not DQ6.
I'm curious, what are some of the unique aspects of the SNES version?
For starters, it has a refreshingly unique and gorgeous art style, rather than being the what... 5th game rehashing the DQVII graphics engine. I get tired of looking at those same art assets in game after game.

Beyond that, while the other DS versions generally featured nothing but additions to the gameplay, the DS version of DQ6 actually chopped one of the main features: the ability to recruit something like 20 different monsters as party members.

The only big loss for some people is party chat being missing. I suppose that's something, but Horii didn't write that party chat text, unlike all the text in the original game. I personally don't consider it a big loss.

KingMike

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #117 on: June 21, 2021, 05:51:43 pm »
Everyone stop making personal attacks or this thread will be locked.

Discuss the translation itself only.
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018

RodMerida

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #118 on: June 21, 2021, 05:54:42 pm »
Everyone stop making personal attacks or this thread will be locked.

Thank you.

June 21, 2021, 06:44:55 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
New patch 1.03c with new static splash screen and new fixings ready! At last! Nobody will have to suffer anymore because of the spinning screen.
It's been sent to the submitting queue, but it can be meanwhile got from here:
http://crackowia.gq/dqust1n2.html
(More information about such fixings in the readme or the submitting queue).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 06:44:55 pm by RodMerida »

Red Soul

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Re: Dragon Quest I+II Addendum Fix by Rod Merida
« Reply #119 on: June 21, 2021, 07:09:36 pm »
Thank you.

June 21, 2021, 06:44:55 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
New patch 1.03c with new static splash screen and new fixings ready! At last! Nobody will have to suffer anymore because of the spinning screen.
It's been sent to the submitting queue, but it can be meanwhile got from here:
http://crackowia.gq/dqust1n2.html
(More information about such fixings in the readme or the submitting queue).

I'll take a look, thanks for your hard work.

Edit: I think this is excellent, personally.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 07:34:22 pm by Red Soul »