News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!  (Read 4440 times)

Chicken Knife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
    • View Profile
I intentionally put breaks in those places in order to make the text read more naturally, rather than just fit in all the text that I could. I actually played through a number of times, obsessing over little things like that, but it's hard to determine the best method of handling it. Having the dialogue pause on words like "by the" doesn't seem right to me.

There's items in every version of this game that had to be reduced or merged into one word to fit into the 11 character limit, but I'll consider changing it to Worn Bat for the next update.

That's normal game behaviour, HP turns blue when it's low.
I guess I didn't recall the HP turning solid blue like that. It's a little odd that sometimes it's a flashing blue and other times there is no flash.

Regarding the formatting, I don't necessarily see the rhyme or reason behind your choice of how long each line is going to be. It comes across to me as quite messy the way it is. I'd strongly recommend formatting the text in a way where the words in individual sentences fill out a line completely unless a word doesn't fit, and then goes on the next line. That seems to to be fairly standard among official translations, and the absence of that standard formatting is very hard to live with, for me at least. I'm sure your choices were knowing and deliberate, but that doesn't mean that the effect won't come across to many users as unprofessional.

Having to handle these kinds of matters for my own translation projects, the real choice is whether or not short connected sentences that form a single thought should get separated onto their own lines. Japanese formatting tends to favor each sentence strictly being on a different line, while English formatting formatting tends to not separate short, connected sentences appearing in a text box.
 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 12:05:48 pm by Chicken Knife »

pancakes

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
I guess I didn't recall the HP turning solid blue like that. It's a little odd that sometimes it's a flashing blue and other times there is no flash.

Regarding the formatting, I don't necessarily see the rhyme or reason behind your choice of how long each line is going to be. It comes across to me as quite messy the way it is. I'd strongly recommend formatting the text in a way where the words in individual sentences fill out a line completely unless a word doesn't fit, and then goes on the next line. That seems to to be fairly standard among official translations, and the absence of that standard formatting is very hard to live with, for me at least.

From my research, based on having to handle these matters in my own translation projects, the real choice is whether or not short connected sentences that form a single thought should get separated onto their own lines. Japanese formatting tends to favor each sentence strictly being on a different line, while English formatting formatting tends to not separate short, connected sentences appearing in a text box.

I tried to handle cases like this similarly to how it was done in the localization of EarthBound, and the fan translations of 1 and 3. Here's an example from the GBA patch:
(The yellow lines indicate where the text pauses for a button prompt.)
If I were to use your method of just fitting every last word possible, then there'd be cases where a new line would only contain a few words, or even a single word. I think that's more sloppy than putting the pauses in places where a sentence could possibly end naturally.

Chicken Knife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
    • View Profile
Ok, I see what you are going for. I still think that my method is more standard, and I disagree as far as what looks messy, but I can at least see the methodology behind what you are doing.

pancakes

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Ok, I see what you are going for. I still think that my method is more standard, and I disagree as far as what looks messy, but I can at least see the methodology behind what you are doing.
If you think it's more standard for NES titles then I'll go through the script again. I don't think there's a perfect way of handling it, though. I think I'm going to do it case-by-case.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 10:11:13 am by pancakes »

lan-vuhoang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Also, I prefer how the ATM text looks like in EarthBound and vanilla Mother 1. Having the mixed case text and detailed explanations is like modern design where everything is as user-friendly as possible, and therefore, it just sounded more natural to me.

Edit: It just make more sense this way, since EarthBound Beginnings took place in the modern times, after all.

Edit 2: I want the CD in ATM machines to be changed to ATM for consistency, since the Cash Card was changed to ATM Card here. Earthbound Beginnings: Consistent Version has a similar change.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 11:03:16 am by lan-vuhoang »

Chicken Knife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
    • View Profile
If you think it's more standard for NES titles then I'll go through the script again. I don't think there's a perfect way of handling it, though. I think I'm going to do it case-by-case.
Let's not be hasty. The fact is, I'm not sure how much standardization there is on this particular issue in the NES era, because the NES RPGS that have been localized seem to generally have the capacity to present longer sentences in dialogue boxes. I was kind of surprised how short the chunks of text in your Mother 1 translation were between input waits. I would have assumed that you could have included more complete sentences in between input waits given the size of the dialogue box.

If there is a severe restriction around how long a sentence can be, I'm not sure if there's enough precedent to determine standards on the NES. I never had to deal with this issue on the NES DQ games I worked on. I did have to deal with this issue regularly however on the GBC DQ Monsters game, where the amount of text that could display in the dialogue box was tiny in comparison. In that case, I went with the method I prescribed to you, and didn't mind the presence of sentence remnants on subsequent lines. I can't say I did a ton of research on how other GBC RPGS handled their text formatting, but I did look at a couple for a basic sense.

Going back to Mother 1, if you can in fact fit more complete sentences in between input waits, that's the route I would go. If you can't, I'd continue to think on it before making any big changes.

lan-vuhoang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
There's items in every version of this game that had to be reduced or merged into one word to fit into the 11 character limit, but I'll consider changing it to Worn Bat for the next update.
Maybe change it to WornOut Bat, make the game easier and apply some of my previous suggestions, and it would be perfect.

pancakes

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Let's not be hasty. The fact is, I'm not sure how much standardization there is on this particular issue in the NES era, because the NES RPGS that have been localized seem to generally have the capacity to present longer sentences in dialogue boxes. I was kind of surprised how short the chunks of text in your Mother 1 translation were between input waits. I would have assumed that you could have included more complete sentences in between input waits given the size of the dialogue box.

If there is a severe restriction around how long a sentence can be, I'm not sure if there's enough precedent to determine standards on the NES. I never had to deal with this issue on the NES DQ games I worked on. I did have to deal with this issue regularly however on the GBC DQ Monsters game, where the amount of text that could display in the dialogue box was tiny in comparison. In that case, I went with the method I prescribed to you, and didn't mind the presence of sentence remnants on subsequent lines. I can't say I did a ton of research on how other GBC RPGS handled their text formatting, but I did look at a couple for a basic sense.

Going back to Mother 1, if you can in fact fit more complete sentences in between input waits, that's the route I would go. If you can't, I'd continue to think on it before making any big changes.

I did go through and polish some of the formatting. There aren't too many places where this happens in the game and I think I've chosen the best options. While it might look like there are places where I could have fit a complete sentence without button prompts, that's not the case. The game will only draw three lines of text before automatically putting in a button prompt. It's too bad I don't have the ASM knowledge to just expand the text boxes.

Also, I prefer how the ATM text looks like in EarthBound and vanilla Mother 1. Having the mixed case text and detailed explanations is like modern design where everything is as user-friendly as possible, and therefore, it just sounded more natural to me.

Edit: It just make more sense this way, since EarthBound Beginnings took place in the modern times, after all.

Edit 2: I want the CD in ATM machines to be changed to ATM for consistency, since the Cash Card was changed to ATM Card here. Earthbound Beginnings: Consistent Version has a similar change.
Maybe change it to WornOut Bat, make the game easier and apply some of my previous suggestions, and it would be perfect.

Sorry, but I'm not going to be changing the dialogue from Tomato's translation. If you prefer something a certain way, feel free to modify your own ROM. If you want to make the game easier, there are already patches available that'd probably work with this one.

lan-vuhoang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
New idea: Could someone port this hack to the Mother 1+2 GBA remake?

Also, with walkthroughs, there's a bit of a learning curve here. For example, take a look at this part of the Magicant segment in BSulpher's walkthrough:

Quote
A note before venturing outside the walls of Magicant, if the enemy Groucho
is encountered, do nothing but Guard every round, as Groucho will soon leave
battle after saying "Hello", and he will leave behind far more Experience
for Ninten than he ever would if defeated in battle (odd I know, but take
advantage of this generosity).

I was a bit confused about what the "Groucho" enemy mentioned is. Turns out it's the Bonus Woosh, but I discovered it entirely by chance.

June 08, 2021, 04:05:34 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Anyone here for my previous request yet?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2021, 08:36:31 am by lan-vuhoang »

lan-vuhoang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Anyone here to answer my previous questions yet?

lan-vuhoang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Anyone still here? I has a few ideas.

Bonesy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1379
  • Dog is God, God is Dog
    • View Profile

marioxb

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
I'd actually prefer to see the opposite. I want someone to hack Mother 3 into "EarthBound Advance" making it 100% match the USA EarthBound, with all the same censorship changes. I actually prefer how games were ported in the 80s and 90s, Americanizing and kiddifying everything. Call me crazy, but I'm serious.