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Zelda II - Amida's Curse (Out now!)

Started by Ok Impala!, December 10, 2020, 06:33:47 AM

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Ok Impala!

Quote from: Vegetaman on March 14, 2022, 12:13:58 AM
Just stumbled across this tonight thanks to twitch; I had no idea this came out nor that you could do so many cool things with Zelda II. This is awesome.

Thank you, I really appreciate your comment! It's amazing to see that still every week there is a streamer over on Twitch playing Amida's Curse!  :)

APL3

I heard about Amida's Curse at work, my boss is a big fan apparently. Got me curious enough to buy a linker.

Of course I didn't do my homework before buying: turns out Zelda II US (and by extension Amida's curse) is very glitchy on a PAL50 system.

Is there any way or trick to get it to work beside modding the system itself to support PAL60 ? As in, a way to either hack Zelda II US to get 50hz compatibility, or get Amida's Curse to be patched onto EU rom ?

Ok Impala!

Quote from: APL3 on June 11, 2022, 08:13:24 AM
I heard about Amida's Curse at work, my boss is a big fan apparently. Got me curious enough to buy a linker.

Of course I didn't do my homework before buying: turns out Zelda II US (and by extension Amida's curse) is very glitchy on a PAL50 system.

Is there any way or trick to get it to work beside modding the system itself to support PAL60 ? As in, a way to either hack Zelda II US to get 50hz compatibility, or get Amida's Curse to be patched onto EU rom ?

Thanks for playing Amida's Curse! A recommendation from your boss, now that's pretty cool!  8) From what I understand you are trying to play it on a Pal console with a Flash Drive? So you can try different versions? I'm from a Pal area too and I know that many US games don't work that well when played on a European console. I will have to look into this, as I don't know exactly how Nintendo did the conversion from 60hz to 50hz. Either way, even if I do manage to create a Pal50 version, I fear it won't be the optimal version as the music will probably slow down too. But it is worth a try! I'll get back to you about it. Please PM me your e-mail address so we can talk more directly. Meanwhile I'd recommend playing the game with Mesen on PC. You will get the best experience that way (if you have a controller to use on the PC).

If anyone over here has experience with creating Pal50 versions, please let me know.

11clock

#123
There is a softlock in the second palace. If you go down the pit without the upward stab, you cannot get out.

Since the upward stab is required to progress later in the palace anyways, I recommend adding a barrier at the very start of the palace that requires the upwards stab.

Is the "restart at current palace" hack (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3859/) compatible with this one? Given that Amida's Curse is built off of Zelda 2 Redux, I was surprised that this hack wasn't included by default.

EDIT: "Restart at current palace" is not compatible unfortunately, but it would still be nice to have this as a feature if possible.

Ok Impala!

Quote from: 11clock on June 20, 2022, 03:31:04 PM
There is a softlock in the second palace. If you go down the pit without the upward stab, you cannot get out.

Since the upward stab is required to progress later in the palace anyways, I recommend adding a barrier at the very start of the palace that requires the upwards stab.

Is the "restart at current palace" hack (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3859/) compatible with this one? Given that Amida's Curse is built off of Zelda 2 Redux, I was surprised that this hack wasn't included by default.

Thanks for mentioning this. I think I don't understand your comment completely, as you can leave that pit without the upstab. Can you send me a screenshot of the exact place you got stuck?

11clock

#125
Quote from: Ok Impala! on June 20, 2022, 03:45:26 PM
Thanks for mentioning this. I think I don't understand your comment completely, as you can leave that pit without the upstab. Can you send me a screenshot of the exact place you got stuck?

I am playing on my retropie so I cannot provide one, but it's that pit where you can find the link doll. On the way out, below the staircase of breakable blocks, you can only attack one block sideways. You have to use the upward stab to attack the blocks above you in order to leave.

EDIT: Oh nevermind, the breakable staircase is right after getting out of the pit, my bad.

Would a "restart at palace" option still be on the table?

EDIT 2: ok so game overing at the prison temple sucks. Have fun trekking for 20 minutes to get all the way back there. At least it unlocks some much appreciated shortcuts afterwards, but a bit late on that.

Ok Impala!

Quote from: 11clock on June 20, 2022, 03:50:47 PM
I am playing on my retropie so I cannot provide one, but it's that pit where you can find the link doll. On the way out, below the staircase of breakable blocks, you can only attack one block sideways. You have to use the upward stab to attack the blocks above you in order to leave.

EDIT: Oh nevermind, the breakable staircase is right after getting out of the pit, my bad.

Would a "restart at palace" option still be on the table?

EDIT 2: ok so game overing at the prison temple sucks. Have fun trekking for 20 minutes to get all the way back there. At least it unlocks some much appreciated shortcuts afterwards, but a bit late on that.

Alright! For a moment I was confused about that pit in Temple 2. Good to see you found your way out again.

I can understand you frustration. Restart at palace couldn't be implemented because of the way I designed the Temples. You see, there are actually more Temples than the original game had. In order to achieve that I had to trick the game in using some Temples twice. When you would restart at the Temple the game would get confused and would put you back in the wrong Temple, since it doesn't know that some Temples exist.

Restarting from the starting cave is lightened a lot by the removal of random battles, adding of shortcuts and the permanent lives system. The fact that there are no shortcuts available before Prison Temple is also part of the limitations of Zelda II. I used up all map teleport points, so I couldn't add extra caves for shortcuts. And you can't let the game switch open a shortcut after finishing the cave before the Prison Temple either, Zelda II just doesn't have that kind of mechanics. Compared to Vanilla Zelda II the time spend backtracking in Amida's Curse is minimal however.

Judging from your post you did beat Prison Temple after all, enjoy the rest of the game!  :)

11clock

Quote from: Ok Impala! on June 21, 2022, 12:55:02 AM
Alright! For a moment I was confused about that pit in Temple 2. Good to see you found your way out again.

I can understand you frustration. Restart at palace couldn't be implemented because of the way I designed the Temples. You see, there are actually more Temples than the original game had. In order to achieve that I had to trick the game in using some Temples twice. When you would restart at the Temple the game would get confused and would put you back in the wrong Temple, since it doesn't know that some Temples exist.

Restarting from the starting cave is lightened a lot by the removal of random battles, adding of shortcuts and the permanent lives system. The fact that there are no shortcuts available before Prison Temple is also part of the limitations of Zelda II. I used up all map teleport points, so I couldn't add extra caves for shortcuts. And you can't let the game switch open a shortcut after finishing the cave before the Prison Temple either, Zelda II just doesn't have that kind of mechanics. Compared to Vanilla Zelda II the time spend backtracking in Amida's Curse is minimal however.

Judging from your post you did beat Prison Temple after all, enjoy the rest of the game!  :)

I just got the life spell (dealing with many screens of my least favorite Zelda 2 enemy was fun).

So far I am impressed with this hack. It feels like it took a lot of good notes from Zelda 2's shortcomings and refined its level design. Main issues I have are some derpy enemy behaviors (spiders lowering themselves through the floor in tight corridors, undead fish zooming through the sand), the trek to the prison temple, and the occasional backtracking.

Since some temples are not counted by the game, does that mean that they are optional to finish?

Ok Impala!

Quote from: 11clock on June 21, 2022, 03:44:24 AM
Since some temples are not counted by the game, does that mean that they are optional to finish?

All Temples should be visited. Every Temple has an item you will need to proceed in the game. So, make sure you find an item in every Temple you visit, and pay close attention to environmental hints inside the Temples. This is especially true for the
Spoiler
Garden
[close]
Temple.

11clock

Quote from: Ok Impala! on June 21, 2022, 08:20:00 AM
All Temples should be visited. Every Temple has an item you will need to proceed in the game. So, make sure you find an item in every Temple you visit, and pay close attention to environmental hints inside the Temples. This is especially true for the
Spoiler
Garden
[close]
Temple.

The items are all required, but do you necessarily have to put the crystal in the statue for the two temples that are "faked"? I am doing this anyways out of principal, but I'm curious.

Ok Impala!

Quote from: 11clock on June 21, 2022, 09:37:08 AM
The items are all required, but do you necessarily have to put the crystal in the statue for the two temples that are "faked"? I am doing this anyways out of principal, but I'm curious.

Yes. This is required too. Otherwise you won't be able to enter the final Temple.

11clock

#131
I am at the last palace, but I am still missing the fire spell. Can you provide a hint on where it could be? I'm not sure if it was in one of the towns I already visited or in some hidden location, and I don't want to scour the entire map. Just a general location to look would do.

btw red potions don't respawn in palaces. This became an issue when I game overed on the firebird. I came back and there was no red potion, forcing me to lose a life to restore my magic (you have to use most of your magic to get there).

How many link dolls are in the hack? I found 4.

Ok Impala!

Quote from: 11clock on June 21, 2022, 11:11:39 PM
I am at the last palace, but I am still missing the fire spell. Can you provide a hint on where it could be? I'm not sure if it was in one of the towns I already visited or in some hidden location, and I don't want to scour the entire map. Just a general location to look would do.

btw red potions don't respawn in palaces. This became an issue when I game overed on the firebird. I came back and there was no red potion, forcing me to lose a life to restore my magic (you have to use most of your magic to get there).

How many link dolls are in the hack? I found 4.

The Fire spell can be found in
Spoiler
Edessa, the town near the Vulcano
[close]
.

Thanks for mentioning this about the red potions. Some red potions not respawning after a Game Over is an unfortunate technical limitation of Zelda II. But I'll look into this to see if there is a way around this.

There are in total 6 Link Dolls you can find.

As a general hint. Don't forget to use your Shield spell. It can really help a lot with enemies shooting projectiles, not everyone knows but Shield spell blocks projectiles too! It also helps a lot against stronger enemies. 

11clock

#133
I beat the game.

I think that the fokka replacements should have their shields visible (or remove their shields entirely if possible).

Overall, good romhack and I liked it, despite the rough edges here and there. Definitely better than the original Zelda 2, and bigger as well.

EDIT: Oh and one other issue I forgot to mention. There was actually a number of times when the level design required me to use a spell to continue, but I was out of mp so I had to go jump off a cliff or something to restock. This mainly started to become an issue after getting the fairy spell, due to its high cost and how often you need to use it. (I believe that vanilla Zelda 2 only required it... twice I think?)

Ok Impala!

Quote from: 11clock on June 22, 2022, 01:57:51 AM
I beat the game.

I think that the fokka replacements should have their shields visible (or remove their shields entirely if possible).

Overall, good romhack and I liked it, despite the rough edges here and there. Definitely better than the original Zelda 2, and bigger as well.

EDIT: Oh and one other issue I forgot to mention. There was actually a number of times when the level design required me to use a spell to continue, but I was out of mp so I had to go jump off a cliff or something to restock. This mainly started to become an issue after getting the fairy spell, due to its high cost and how often you need to use it. (I believe that vanilla Zelda 2 only required it... twice I think?)

Congrats on beating Amida's Curse, great to hear you liked it! Thanks for sharing your thoughts here.  :)

Giving the fokka replacements a shield turned out to be technically impossible. My main strategy as a player has always been to run away from them. I did balance them out however. They are illusions, so there is a secret way to defeat them instantly...

As for you running out of magic. This is a matter of balancing. Right now there are red jars on all crucial points and you can find even more hidden in secret spots (for example in statues). On top of that enemies are more likely to drop a jar. Adding even more jars would make the game too easy, as the player would be able to spam life all the time. The same goes for making the fairy spell cheaper. Doing that would give the player the opportunity to fly over every screen, which would kill the challenge. As a designer you have to make choices on how to balance the game, if you don't the game becomes either too hard or too easy. It's an interesting and complex puzzle.

Thanks for playing!  :)