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Author Topic: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!  (Read 6097 times)

Ness

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2021, 02:12:32 pm »
TMNT2 - Bugfix&Polish updated to v1.2: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5722/

Also I had forgotten to include the comparison gifs and pictures in the v1.1 version, they're back now, with additions for v1.1 and 1.2

Quote
- Some more polishing on the intro: placement of Raphael, placement of the "Fire!" speech bubble and of its tail.
That's on top of the fixes for the intro done in v1.1 (see intro.gif in both v11 and v12 folders).
- Added Krang's missing hand during his spawning animation (see Krang_spawn_hand.gif)
- Replaced a few tiles for the blown-up wall during the vertical scrolling of Scene 2 (see blownupwall.gif)
- Some minor pixel polish on some of the Turtles portraits in the characters select as well as during the ending
- Added a few missing pixels for the outline of Foot Soldiers defeated frames, as well as for the blue Stone Warrior.
- For the bushes in Scene 3, replaced the row of black pixels at their top by blue pixels, so that it fades better into
the water.
- More clean up on the outlines for the Spear and Hammer Foot. Also got rid of the stray black pixel on the Spear's
leg, sadly couldn't do the same for Hammer.

I updated the intro according to Sic's feedback. I also updated some background tiles for the blown-up wall of Scene 2, that thing always bothered me. Did the best I could under the circumstances, editing background graphics via hex only is painful. I also can't for the life of me find how they set palette for background tiles in this game.



As you can see on TCRF: https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_II:_The_Arcade_Game , I found two previews of the game where that wall wasn't blown-up yet, so I think it was a very late addition and it looked unfinished in some parts. I wonder if the reason they blew up that wall was to partially hide how glitchy the vertical scrolling looks? Notice how there is a horizontal line of black pixels seperating both screens between the top and bottom screens, and coincidentally the blown-up parts of the wall are all around that line....

Also for some reasons Krang's spawning frame was missing an arm. The rest is more minor.



In other news I realized that TMNT3 - Turtle Swap has a couple of graphical glitches that can occur in menus. Nothing that affects gameplay but I'll try and fix them eventually, although the question of available space and compatibility with other hacks is still an issue, but I'll try to looking into it at some point.






Ness

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2021, 11:18:14 am »
I'm working on a small rebalancing hack of TMNT4 Turtles In Time for SNES.
Balancing not being an easy thing, I'd like to get people's opinion on this.

For reference, here is a character guide I wrote which details various stats of the turtles (everything that matters minus the attacks timing I wasn't able to get):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/snes/588779-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-iv-turtles-in-time/faqs/79134

- The main issue I noticed is how gimped Leo's range is: on the first, second and third hit of this regular attack combo (all hits except for the 3rd), you can visibily see his katana go through enemies but the hit will not connect. His range is worse than Raph's and I see no reason for that being the case.
What I've done so far:
- Increased the range of the first combo hit by 6: 68->74 (pixels difference in decimal value between the turtle X pos and the enemy's X pos)
- Increased the range of the second hit by two: 60->62
- Increased the range of the fourth hit by 4: 52->56

That still makes his range worse than Raph's but at least now there is no discrepency between the visual and the actual hit detection.

- Secondly, I see little reason why Donatello's hits are so weak. Yes, there is his range, but honestly his increased range matters little in the grand scheme of things, and he's already weak due to his slow speed and low HP.
What I've done so far:
- increased the damage of his first regular attack hit by 1: 3->4
- increased the damage of his shoulder bash by 1: 7->8 (which brings it on the same level as other Turtles)

Thoughts anyone?
I don't really want to reduce anyone's stats even if Mike is clearly OP and Raph could also use some small reductions here and there; I'd rather improve the weak turtles instead.

Another thing I've done is move the invisible wall on the right side of the screen by 15 pixels to the right. There was a huge discrepency between how much you can walk to the side of the screen on the left vs the right side, and this helped. More than 15 pixels can cause glitches. This only affects scroll stoppers when enemy waves start, it doesn't affect boss fights or other things.

As for the "run with L/R" romhack that I've made:
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5812/

People are asking to make it just like in The Hyperstone Heist but I don't think I will. First of all, all the best moves in the game (shoulder bash, sliding, post run kick) are achieved via running, so running should take a bit of skill and imo shouldn't be an immediate thing for balancing reasons, and double tapping does just that. Secondly, by having the second input set to L/R I personally pretty much never fail to run anymore, I only fail a running sequence maybe once per playthrough. Once you get used to it, it's really simple.
The immediate running in HH really breaks the game as you can spam all the best moves with low risk and low effort.

E.Signal

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2021, 12:05:38 pm »
Darn, just my luck. I was hoping for a TMNT IV hack that felt and played just like Hyperstone Heist  :(
but, this one you're working on sounds good  :thumbsup:
Did this request I've made a while back made you want to work on this hack by any chance?
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=3282.msg392867#msg392867

assassin

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2021, 12:31:13 pm »
nice guide.  i was gonna make one like that eventually, but am lazy and a poor manager of ample free time.

take a look at the 2 old SDA posts linked here:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/588779-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-iv-turtles-in-time/52238986

where Nitsuja (via snorlax) and i are differing from yours:
- sliding = Don
- downward jump kick = Don
- upward jump kick = Leo
- mid-air weapon attack = Don
- special = Leo

some things you're missing:
1) the fifth kick, namely the hovering style deal as a continuation of a run
2) throw (versus only, damage determined by throwee, not thrower)
3) the follow-up, uber powerful shoulder ram.  yes, i'm pretty sure this is the nonsensically named and poorly explained "Cannonball" from the instruction booklet, which i wouldn't learn how to do YEARS later until reading about it online.
4) a number of the external/unconventional damages (e.g. foot soldier slamming, ambient projectiles)
5) the randomly swapped in inferior (3 damage) 3rd regular attack for Raph.  i forget whether there was a criterion like Game Difficulty, or if this was across the board random.  will check my notes.

small gripe: switch Don and Raph in Section 1, HP values.  Don's first everywhere else! :P

Ness

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2021, 12:52:03 pm »
Darn, just my luck. I was hoping for a TMNT IV hack that felt and played just like Hyperstone Heist  :(
but, this one you're working on sounds good  :thumbsup:
Did this request I've made a while back made you want to work on this hack by any chance?
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=3282.msg392867#msg392867

Ha well, it looks like everyone wants that HH running. Maybe I'll try to do it.

nice guide.  i was gonna make one like that eventually, but am lazy and a poor manager of ample free time.

take a look at the 2 old SDA posts linked here:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/588779-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-iv-turtles-in-time/52238986

where Nitsuja (via snorlax) and i are differing from yours:
- sliding = Don
- downward jump kick = Don
- upward jump kick = Leo
- mid-air weapon attack = Don
- special = Leo

some things you're missing:
1) the fifth kick, namely the hovering style deal as a continuation of a run
2) throw (versus only, damage determined by throwee, not thrower)
3) the follow-up, uber powerful shoulder ram.  yes, i'm pretty sure this is the nonsensically named and poorly explained "Cannonball" from the instruction booklet, which i wouldn't learn how to do YEARS later until reading about it online.
4) a number of the external/unconventional damages (e.g. foot soldier slamming, ambient projectiles)
5) the randomly swapped in inferior (3 damage) 3rd regular attack for Raph.  i forget whether there was a criterion like Game Difficulty, or if this was across the board random.  will check my notes.

small gripe: switch Don and Raph in Section 1, HP values.  Don's first everywhere else! :P

Interesting. I'll check those damage values that differ, and I can add the missing things.
However what you call "1)the fifth kick, namely the hovering style deal as a continuation of a run", I think this is what I call the "post run kick"? Which is to say the standing kick that is performed after performing a shoulder bash, when letting go of the direciton on the d-pad.
And isn't your point "3)" what I call the shoulder bash? Running + attack (or running + jump + attack at the end of the cycle). So I think both of these are in there. It's not easy coming up with attack names! I didn't think of checking if there are official names in manuals or if there is an official guide.
As for throw, this just made me think it's not just VS only, I could also add the damage dealt when throwing Stone Warrior onto another.

Any thoughts about the balancing things I mentionned? I just realized Don's range does matter more than I thought, but at the same time he's slow and dies quickly so I still think it's worth adding those +1 dmg values in those two attacks.

Also if you have any idea how to get values for attacks timing, let me know. For the 4 regular attacks combo I'm interested in:
1) how long each attack lasts
2) at which frames does it start to register as a hit

For instance, I'm pretty sure that for Mike's 2nd hit from the regular attack combo, it takes more time for the attack to register as a hit, meaning you're more likely to get hit when you use it. This seems pretty obvious to me in the special stages for instance. But so far I was unable to get accurate numbers.

assassin

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2021, 01:23:36 pm »
Interesting. I'll check those damage values that differ, and I can add the missing things.
However what you call "1)the fifth kick, namely the hovering style deal as a continuation of a run", I think this is what I call the "post run kick"? Which is to say the standing kick that is performed after performing a shoulder bash, when letting go of the direciton on the d-pad.
no, i indeed meant it that it hovers/floats, and has horizontal speed due to being a run continuation.  the 1st linked SDA post tells you how to perform it.  "flying kick" from Fartman333's guide is another way to phrase it.

Quote
And isn't your point "3)" what I call the shoulder bash? Running + attack (or running + jump + attack at the end of the cycle). So I think both of these are in there.
no, i indeed meant a secondary shoulder ram/bash that requires more button presses before it, and does about 2x damage of the normal one.  chillindragonx's guide tells you how to perform it.

Quote from: guide
- The "Back attack" needs to be turned on the Option menu for it to be
performed.
i'd add here that it can't be done in Versus mode.

Ness

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2021, 03:05:33 pm »
I see what you mean now, I knew about the second shoulder bash but I didn't realize it dealt a different amount of damage. The thing is, the window for it is really short: if you attack too soon you get a slide, if you attack too late the cycle is over and you get a regular shoulder bash instead. That's what happened when I ran my tests, I was a bit too late and was getting regular shoulder bashes, and since it uses the same animation, I didn't realize, so I thought it was simply another way to get the regular shoulder bash.

I completely forgot to add the running special and Raph's alternate 3rd hit though, even though I knew about them (I have the running special in my THH guide that's not uploaded yet). I'll add those as well. I'm checking everything a second time, apparently I got some values wrong for Raph's range too.

MathUser2929

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2021, 10:32:25 am »
Is there any chance of adding 4 players to any of those Ninja turtle games?

assassin

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2021, 10:42:45 am »
I see what you mean now, I knew about the second shoulder bash but I didn't realize it dealt a different amount of damage. The thing is, the window for it is really short: if you attack too soon you get a slide, if you attack too late the cycle is over and you get a regular shoulder bash instead. That's what happened when I ran my tests, I was a bit too late and was getting regular shoulder bashes, and since it uses the same animation, I didn't realize, so I thought it was simply another way to get the regular shoulder bash.

okay, i hadn't properly processed your "attack at the end of the cycle" qualifier.

yeah, they're easy enough to confuse.  let's look at the instruction booklet passage i referenced:
"CANNON BALL: For an unbelievable spinning attack technique, start Dashing as you press the B BUTTON.  When the spin winds down, press the Y BUTTON."

so a misleading title, grandiose description, AND incorrect button ordering for the start of the move (the end is right).  combine that idiocy with a clone animation, and players are left to flail and shrug.

then right under it:
"BOX OF HARD KNOCKS: This attack move is so strong, it takes one of your extra lives.  To do this, snatch up the red box with a black ball and your turtle will kick into overdrive, destroying all in his way."

iirc, the first sentence's second clause is utter B.S.

these things don't read like Engrish, but rather like they were written by an enthusiastic person who had never played the game.

Quote from: me
5) the randomly swapped in inferior (3 damage) 3rd regular attack for Raph.  i forget whether there was a criterion like Game Difficulty, or if this was across the board random.  will check my notes.

nope, no indication of any Difficulty criterion in my notes or in current testing.

more regarding Versus Mode: worth noting that Special moves cannot be used there.  instead, your turtle will duck his head into his shell.  does this decrease damage or allow for any manner of attack dodging?  if so, it could be nice to hack into the main game with an unused button...

another Versus oddity is that i can't get Michelangelo to do normal attacks #3 and #4 in the chain; he starts over at #1 and #2.  it's like the developers decided he was too powerful head-to-head, and to nerf him here.  or it could be a bug.

Ness

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2021, 11:40:41 am »
Is there any chance of adding 4 players to any of those Ninja turtle games?

If there is, it's way out of my league!

March 17, 2021, 03:11:05 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
- Released the small balance tweaks for TMNT4:
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5820/

- Updated "run with L/R". The only change was moving the code around so the hack is compatible with the MSU-1 hack. Blade133bo used it in his Spanish translation:
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/6009/

- Updated the TMNT4 Character Guide on gamefaqs. Added/fixed what was discussed here and fixed a couple of attack range values also. I haven't added anything regarding the VS mode because I've never even played that.

- The Hyperstone Heist character guide is also up on gamefaqs:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/genesis/563348-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-hyperstone-heist/faqs/79141

« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 03:11:05 pm by Ness »

Hacker65xx

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2021, 11:53:52 pm »
Hi ,

I have make a hack of TMNT4 with DASH in L/R, like TMNT Hyperstone Heist
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5829/

L / R for DASH, works with option's choice "AUTO" mode , the automatic dash is disabled ,

I would like to change, the word "AUTO" by "L-R" , and the word "MANUAL" by "2xDPAD"
Maybe one day, if I have the time, I will do this


« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 05:29:17 pm by Hacker65xx »

Ness

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2021, 04:20:14 am »
Good job!

The issue though is that you cancel the running at times it shouldn't (the cause may be that you're using the Auto function rather than manual). Example:

- Perform a shoulder bash, you should be able to perform another, and another, and another etc just by pressing the attack button again. In your version one needs to press a direction, then the shoulder button, then attack again.

- It should also be possible to run, walk diagonally in the same direction, then instantly run again in that same direction, without having to press the run button again. Basically this works as long as you keep to the same left/right direction. Example: run towards the right, walk diagonally upward (up+right), let go of the Up button -> you should be instantly running again to the right direction.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 04:35:53 am by Ness »

Hacker65xx

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2021, 10:18:42 am »
 
Good job!

Thank you, :thumbsup:


 
- Perform a shoulder bash, you should be able to perform another, and another, and another etc just by pressing the attack button again. In your version one needs to press a direction, then the shoulder button, then attack again.

In Hyperstone Heist:
-After a Shoulder dash, for perform another in same direction you need press C then A
IN my hack:
-After a shoulder dash, for perform another in same direction you need press L/R then Y


 
- It should also be possible to run, walk diagonally in the same direction, then instantly run again in that same direction, without having to press the run button again. Basically this works as long as you keep to the same left/right direction. Example: run towards the right, walk diagonally upward (up+right), let go of the Up button -> you should be instantly running again to the right direction.

It's no possible on Hyperstone Heist



I wanted to keep the restrictions of Hyperstone Heist's dash

Unintentionally, my hack added a little skill timing for dash : do not push direction and dash in same time
Push dash after 2frames or more (it's no effect before 2frames)
After test, I keep this good unexpected improvement:
-too short timing : no effect and just need repush LR
-good timing: 2frames for dash
-too long timing : more than 2frames for dash
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 11:01:52 am by Hacker65xx »

Ness

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2021, 10:41:17 am »
Yeah it hit me after I said it that maybe it was intentional so that it's just like in THH. I know it's not possible in THH, when I want to do two shoulder bashes in a row I often have to walk back a little bit, run, then attack again (without doing that you tend to run through the enemy before activating the second shoulder bash).

The thing is, that behaviour is totally fine for THH, because being able to chain shoulder bashes like in TIT would break the game ever more than it already is. THH has worse enemies/bosses AI, once you know the game, they pretty much can't do anything, except run to the other side of the screen (for bosses), and the windows to hit enemies are huge. In TIT, enemies and bosses have better AI and the windows to hit them are smaller, with more wait time, more i-frames, which is why I think it's important to be able to chain up shoulder bashes easily and quickly once you catch those windows. The best example of that being Slash but to a lesser extent even Stone Warriors because you want the threat taken care of asap. Personally I wouldn't want that possibility taken out.

It's not as important but I also use the fact that you're still running after a diagonal walk, especially against Leatherhead, if my prediction of where he's going to run to is off.
When I heard people say they wanted the running to be just like THH, I imagined they meant being able to press the run button any time after having pressed a direction (and not just quickly after like in the og TIT), nothing more, nothing less.

niuus

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2021, 04:19:14 pm »
Ha well, it looks like everyone wants that HH running. Maybe I'll try to do it.

When I heard people say they wanted the running to be just like THH, I imagined they meant being able to press the run button any time after having pressed a direction (and not just quickly after like in the og TIT), nothing more, nothing less.
Exactly that.  :thumbsup:

Hi ,

I have make a hack of TMNT4 with DASH in L/R, like TMNT Hyperstone Heist
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H02kZ5VbA4d9ja9UNgvJ4CTKec-GbfJg/view?usp=sharing

L / R for DASH, works with option's choice "AUTO" mode , the automatic dash is disabled ,

I would like to change, the word "AUTO" by "L-R" , and the word "MANUAL" by "2xDPAD"
Maybe one day, if I have the time, I will do this



Currently it's in submission queue of romhacking
Works as intended with clean ROM, though sadly it seems to conflict with this essential Text Cleanup hack. (Balance Tweaks works with this)

Will also work with the Balance Tweaks hack, but stops working when you add MSU-1.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 04:45:49 pm by niuus »

Domino089

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2021, 05:38:04 pm »
Some time ago I made this request in the post Hack ideas, it seems appropriate to publish it here, maybe someone is interested in making it happen if possible.

I have an idea for a Remake of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: The Manhattan Project for SNES, I have always wanted to see this game in 16 bits I don't know why in its launching time it didn't have a port for arcade or Super Nintendo.

The idea would be to have as base the ROM of Turtles in Time, for graphic elements like the turtles and some enemies and objects, I know that this would be a quite complicated project since they would have to recreate the scenarios of TMNT III and several sprites of enemies and bosses that don't appear in TMNT IV, as well as the scenes between levels.

Also this can be applied to another project like the remake of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game, a game that was released for NES with some extras that are not in the arcade version, I would also love to see this one in 16 bit for SNES.

These ideas are free and can be executed by anyone who is interested and can make these two projects a reality.

Spooniest

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2021, 08:27:58 pm »
Could an MSU-1 Hack for TMNT 4 be done that replaces the audio with the Arcade cuts?

The Arcade OST for TIT is the same but better mixed. It had to be redone to fit on the SNES cart, I bet.
Yamero~~!

niuus

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2021, 12:57:31 am »
Could an MSU-1 Hack for TMNT 4 be done that replaces the audio with the Arcade cuts?

The Arcade OST for TIT is the same but better mixed. It had to be redone to fit on the SNES cart, I bet.
You can source the arcade music rips from anywhere you can get them, convert them to PCM with Audacity, and just replace the existing songs on the Shell Shocked OC Remix pack. There is even a Hyperstone Heist OST MSU-1 pack which you could use as a base.

Some time ago I made this request in the post Hack ideas, it seems appropriate to publish it here, maybe someone is interested in making it happen if possible.
Sounds cool but a way too heavy endeavor i don't see happening any time soon, the same with a port/recreation of Hyperstone Heist on the SNES which has been suggested for decades.

Spooniest

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2021, 04:27:40 am »
You can source the arcade music rips from anywhere you can get them, convert them to PCM with Audacity, and just replace the existing songs on the Shell Shocked OC Remix pack. There is even a Hyperstone Heist OST MSU-1 pack which you could use as a base.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but I later thought about it for a sec and realized that "Technodrome - Let's Kick Shell" and the immediately following "Elevator Fight" music, actually aren't in TMNT II: Turtles In Time, (that is, the arcade game that TMNT4 is based on) at all. Shredder warps the Turtles from the end of Stage 3, and I think these stages were added for the SNES version.
Yamero~~!

Hacker65xx

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Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 & 3 hacking. Now with TMNT4!
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2021, 09:20:25 am »
Hi,


After research in ram of TMNT 4 , I find the values address's for difficult's choice
2 codes ACTION REPLAY to put:
001fee:xx
001ff2:xx

the game write 00 for easy   01 for normal    and   02 for hard


I have tested :07 , the game is hard or more


But should check if it's really more harder with :07 than :02 (hard)
If more harder I add the select "Hardest" by a manipulation with SELECT+X+Y in title screen


« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 01:02:12 pm by Hacker65xx »