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Author Topic: SaGa Frontier is back!!  (Read 2480 times)

SleepyFist

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SaGa Frontier is back!!
« on: November 28, 2020, 12:57:01 pm »
Square just announced an HD port, and even better, it's the completed game with all the axed events and Fuse restored, I have never been so happy for a remaster, even the earlier TWEWY:NEO announcement didn't get me the same way.

Obviously the smoothed out graphics aren't going to sit well with everyone, but imo it's a far cry from their earlier vasoline filter monstrosities. I'm just overjoyed that SaGa Frontier of all things got a second chance.

Official YT Trailer
https://youtu.be/jYnCp7_fh7M

Sliver X

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2020, 01:28:06 pm »
I have infuriating memories of this game* but still consider it fun enough to have played through it a few times since I originally bought it for PSX in 1998.

It always struck me the way Xenogears did: Very ambitious but it wasn't given enough time and/or resources to flesh things out properly so you end up with something that feels rushed and half baked, though you can see the brilliance underneath to varying degrees at points.

Will probably be getting this if it goes on GoG at some point. Restoring Fuse's quest-line alone should go to making the story feel more resolved, and they mention restoring a bunch of other events and such as well. It would be neat to see more flesh on the skeleton of a game it originally turned out to be. I actually think the graphics are well done, too. The pre-rendered 3D backgrounds in the original haven't aged well in particular. (I can appreciate computer graphics from the 1970s to 2020 but there's something about most 1990s CG that I just can't stomach)


* Somehow when fighting the Genocide Heart at the end of T260G's quest-line I ended up with only T260G alive and nothing but a Punch as an attack. It literally took me almost 3 hours in a war of attrition and just as I was about to run out of HP I finally killed it. Don't think I've ever screamed in victory like I did then.
** When I finally got all the branches beaten I saved my game and went to bed, figuring I could just check the programmer's room out after school the next day. When I attempted to do so my memory card came up corrupted and I lost all my save data.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 01:33:59 pm by Sliver X »

MysticLord

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2020, 03:05:01 am »
Coming out for the ps4, switch, steam, and ios/android app stores. I don't see how they could have done that without the source code, especially given that we sprites jumping around in Fuse's scenario.

I'm just glad we're getting Saga Frontier again.

Seta

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2020, 08:24:12 am »
I actually think the graphics are well done, too. The pre-rendered 3D backgrounds in the original haven't aged well in particular. (I can appreciate computer graphics from the 1970s to 2020 but there's something about most 1990s CG that I just can't stomach)

They aren't even done, they upscaled them through AI, and very hastily, I'd bet; ESRGAN can do better than this, but even some stuff will be too amorphous to "replicate". (its algorithms base their process on existing pictures)
It seems more consistent than the mess they did with Romancing, but it's still very cheap looking at some spots. Look at the cliff Red is standing on in the title screen...
Since Squeenix won't provide a "classic" mode with the original art, it'd be terrific if some madman modded the original game with the additional stuff, now that we'll know what it is.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 11:54:40 am by Seta »

MysticLord

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2020, 11:22:36 am »
They aren't even done, they upscaled them through AI, and very hastily, I'd bet; ESRGAN can do better than this, but even some stuff will be too amorphous to "replicate". (its algorithms base their process on existing pictures)
It seems more consistent than the mess they did with Romancing, but it's still very cheap looking at some spots. Look at the cliff Red is standing on in the title screen...
Since Squeenix won't provide a "classic" mode with the original art, I'd be terrific if some madman modded the original game with the additional stuff, now that we'll know what it is.
If it's going to be on PC and Switch it should be stupid easy to mod.

Seta

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2020, 11:56:47 am »
If it's going to be on PC and Switch it should be stupid easy to mod.

Yeah, but we're assuming it won't come with the same problem as the Romancing remasters, which run at 30fps instead of their original 60fps. It's hard to trust they won't screw up somewhere beyond the presentation.

Jorpho

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2020, 01:35:59 pm »
On that note, did any of those ambitious plans to clean up the graphics of the PC ports of FF4-6 ever get completed?
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Pennywise

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2020, 01:38:38 pm »
I think it'd be cooler for someone to port over the extra stuff from the HD remaster to the original game. Of course it'd be a ton of work though.


lexluthermiester

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2020, 03:00:33 pm »
This looks interesting!

Yeah, but we're assuming it won't come with the same problem as the Romancing remasters, which run at 30fps instead of their original 60fps. It's hard to trust they won't screw up somewhere beyond the presentation.
Good point. But let's be honest, it's a JRPG. Are we really going to notice the difference?

Seta

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2020, 03:29:08 pm »
Good point. But let's be honest, it's a JRPG. Are we really going to notice the difference?

I'd say scrolling backgrounds, like the horse scene in Romancing 3, look noticeably janky... I'm not excusing Square for any mistake that wasn't in the original game after so many remasters.

lexluthermiester

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2020, 05:16:53 pm »
I'd say scrolling backgrounds, like the horse scene in Romancing 3, look noticeably janky... I'm not excusing Square for any mistake that wasn't in the original game after so many remasters.
Are you saying that if it ends up being rendered at 30fps you won't play it? Can't say I'm with you on that one and for one simple reason, the original game was only 30fps. You need to remember that CRT's BITD were interlaced analogue devices and as such they only ever actually drew images at 30 true frames per second, 30 down scan lines and the other 30 back up in the offset group of scan lines.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 03:50:53 pm by lexluthermiester »

Starscream

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2020, 02:51:48 pm »
Obviously the smoothed out graphics aren't going to sit well with everyone, but imo it's a far cry from their earlier vasoline filter monstrosities. I'm just overjoyed that SaGa Frontier of all things got a second chance.

Official YT Trailer
https://youtu.be/jYnCp7_fh7M

Yeah, doesn't look that bad, this was one of  my favourite games on the PS1. Great news.

MysticLord

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2020, 03:06:31 pm »
I think it'd be cooler for someone to port over the extra stuff from the HD remaster to the original game. Of course it'd be a ton of work though.
A friend of mine noticed AI upscaling artifacts on the backgrounds, so you probably wouldn't want those ported to the PS1 version.

Porting the extra events and sprites is possible, however no one has a good grasp on the event scripting. Until we have that figured out, nothing's happening, and given the lack of people in the SF modding community with assembly experience it will probably never happen. Or they'll just port the changes and disappear without documenting the data formats and opcodes, ensuring that no one can ever build on their knowledge and mod the game in other ways. Literally all it would take is for someone to figure out the lengths of the opcodes, nothing else. The community could figure out the rest just by tinkering with that.

There are 2 free character slots that are unused or incomplete. You could rebuild the ISO with more room for new sprites and probably fields/events and it may work from what I know about the game.

Sliver X

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2021, 01:53:04 pm »
I've been playing this the past few days and am fairly impressed. Whatever they did for the upscaling (Particularly the backgrounds) worked much better than usual: I'm guessing they threw the assets at an "AI" upscaling algorithm of some sort, then touched it up by hand.

The options to speed up the battle speed by up to 3x is also really nice, and there's now a quest log in the menu that will give you pointers on what you've done and what you should do next.

I haven't noticed anything really new in regards to content, but I've only gotten like halfway through Asellus' line. It does seem to me that some of the dialogue is different? Much more natural sounding in parts, at the very least. I wonder if they've done an actual new translation of the original japanese script?

tldr; It's pretty good. I don't regret buying it.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 02:08:21 pm by Sliver X »

MysticLord

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Re: SaGa Frontier is back!!
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2021, 08:06:17 pm »
I've been playing this the past few days and am fairly impressed. Whatever they did for the upscaling (Particularly the backgrounds) worked much better than usual: I'm guessing they threw the assets at an "AI" upscaling algorithm of some sort, then touched it up by hand.
Yep, FFVD on GameFAQs verified that by inspecting unused backgrounds. Plenty of artifacts in those.

I haven't noticed anything really new in regards to content, but I've only gotten like halfway through Asellus' line. It does seem to me that some of the dialogue is different? Much more natural sounding in parts, at the very least. I wonder if they've done an actual new translation of the original japanese script?
There's some additional stuff at the beginning of her quest, and some stuff towards the end.

I dunno about the translation, but it seems they're using a mix of different source code revisions and some stuff was simply tacked on because they couldn't find it.

There's a few discords on the subject if you're interested.