News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch  (Read 7936 times)

ShadowOne333

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2020, 08:53:42 pm »
I mean the VWF.

VWF is nothing out of place for NES titles.
Toruzz did a VWF for Link's Awakening DX, so it's not out of the question to have a VWF on an 8bit game
For a more proper example, there's a translation for Romancia that did VWF on NES:
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=6252.0

So it's not a farfetched idea for an NES game to have VWF.
That's why I said making a RAM dump could probably give us the patched ROM with all the changes already applied.

Pennywise

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2020, 11:52:47 am »
VWF is nothing out of place for NES titles.
Toruzz did a VWF for Link's Awakening DX, so it's not out of the question to have a VWF on an 8bit game
For a more proper example, there's a translation for Romancia that did VWF on NES:
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=6252.0

So it's not a farfetched idea for an NES game to have VWF.
That's why I said making a RAM dump could probably give us the patched ROM with all the changes already applied.

The Switch release doesn't use a hacked ROM for the translation. It's probably translated through emulator trickery.

While it's true that the NES can do a VWF, not all games come equipped with the necessary hardware ie VRAM to display one. Fire Emblem does not have VRAM, so a VWF is impossible.

Bregalad

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2020, 03:24:24 am »
So it's not a farfetched idea for an NES game to have VWF.
That's why I said making a RAM dump could probably give us the patched ROM with all the changes already applied.
The problem is that the original Fire Emblem uses MMC4 with CHR-ROM, which makes VWF almost impossible. It could be possible if an entiere nametable was wasted and the entiere width of the screen used for this alone in addition to timed code that would crunch the nametable (advancing 8 lines every line) to appear as normal symbols. However the original Fire Emblem was not programmed with that in mind at all, and that's clearly not what is seen in the video posted by the OP.

Dzumeister

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2020, 11:51:26 am »
The Switch release doesn't use a hacked ROM for the translation. It's probably translated through emulator trickery.

While it's true that the NES can do a VWF, not all games come equipped with the necessary hardware ie VRAM to display one. Fire Emblem does not have VRAM, so a VWF is impossible.

LuigiBlood has confirmed this, you're right
free sluffy

Baggins

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2020, 07:27:13 pm »
If the script could be pulled from the emulator/software... and its too much for the current mapper... Couldn't the mapper be patched to something that's more robust, and then the rom patched further to allow for the larger script, and to take advantage of the new mapper?

Chronosplit

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2020, 10:57:18 pm »
If the script could be pulled from the emulator/software... and its too much for the current mapper... Couldn't the mapper be patched to something that's more robust, and then the rom patched further to allow for the larger script, and to take advantage of the new mapper?
There are a lot of "what ifs" in that.  If the stars aligned and it was actually made for any kind of NES mapper though, converting a game to use another mapper is not new.

I really don't think this would be the case though.  This wasn't made with the intention to play it in an NES at all.

ShadowOne333

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2020, 11:06:07 pm »
Just redo the translation without VWF.
Boom, done ;P

Baggins

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2020, 01:59:38 am »
There are a lot of "what ifs" in that.  If the stars aligned and it was actually made for any kind of NES mapper though, converting a game to use another mapper is not new.

I really don't think this would be the case though.  This wasn't made with the intention to play it in an NES at all.

I'm not going to 'state' what 'can be done' only what might possibly have to be done to start with...

1. The entire script gets pulled out seperately from whatever file its being streamed from... and put into a word document, for 'future use'/conversion. This assumes there is no 'real-time patching' going on just elements being displayed over other elements via whatever trickery the 'vessel' emulator allows. Perhaps something like Mesen does with HD Metroid mod? This of course won't work on hardware...

Example? The main menu/title screen might be a 'graphic' displayed seperately 'over' the original title screen? That would most likely require designing an entirely new title screen and animation to mimic what it does...?

2. Second issue is matter of how one opens and expands the rom to allow for improved scripting methods... The limitations may require the rom to be modified out of its original capabilities... Perhaps it would require switching to another mapper that could handle changes to how the script is handled... Also formating of the text and fonts would have to be taken into consideration (how much can be displayed on screen at one time, how is it displayed on screen); how many 'letters & numbers' can be displayed on screen at any given time? (are there any 4 letter naming convention issues in the original rom that would require to be 'expanded'?)... How are current fan translations handling the issues (and what is their lenghth and limitations on text)? If the ground work is already 'done' in the fan patches as in modifying and expanding how much text can be displayed, and how it displays... Would it work with the new translation assuming it could be 'injected' or would there not be enough space to inject it in the first place... and how much would it require to make sure each line fits where it needs to be injecte (assuming some lines go beyond the current limits even within the fan patches)?


Jaz

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2021, 08:00:34 am »
Isn't this the same obstacle we're experiencing with dumping the translated roms from Double Dragon & Kunio-Kun Retro Brawler Bundle? There has be to be a way to have the translated roms dumped.

Chronosplit

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2021, 10:36:13 pm »
Isn't this the same obstacle we're experiencing with dumping the translated roms from Double Dragon & Kunio-Kun Retro Brawler Bundle? There has be to be a way to have the translated roms dumped.
Nope.  Those games appear to be translated at the ROM level, according to reports from those looking in a hex editor.  The only problem is the emulator is in Unity with the files inside of it.

Fire Emblem on the other hand, is the opposite.  It's extractable from the get-go but the file itself was not translated, and everything else is on the outside of it.  Think of this as a CD game with multiple tracks: The game itself is on the first track, but you need all those other tracks and the .cue file to run it properly.

Sara-chan

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2021, 11:16:34 pm »
Isn't this the same obstacle we're experiencing with dumping the translated roms from Double Dragon & Kunio-Kun Retro Brawler Bundle? There has be to be a way to have the translated roms dumped.
Here's the deal. Effectively the emulator is live-translating a Japanese rom using techniques beyond just emulation. In a distant way it's more comparable to things like texture packs than to actual translation (and in fact on some consoles' emulators there are games you can translate using only texture packs). All of the methods for displaying the new translation are part of the emulator, so there is absolutely no way to make a rom of it, because it is doing things that aren't even actually supported by the system per se, especially not on the mapper the game uses.

From what I understand some of the games in the Retro Brawler Bundle really are similar cases, but not sure. With Fire Emblem it's definite.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 11:29:58 pm by Sara-chan »
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gamingcat02261991

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Re: Fire Emblem 1 official localization announced for Nintendo Switch
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2021, 03:14:09 am »
Sadly, the official localization of the first Fire Emblem stopped distribution after March 31st of this year at the same time that certain Mario-related games and services by Nintendo would cease, making it the only non-Mario property to be affected by the time the clock struck midnight and April Fool's Day began.