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Author Topic: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES  (Read 117544 times)

sebastianangel

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #500 on: May 03, 2021, 11:52:47 am »
Flaviogames I really appreciate your intention to collaborate, unfortunately as I announced a few days ago I am in the final stage of the project so I could only need technical help for some details of a.s.m., I recommend you go ahead if you like the topic of romhacking as you could learn many things reading several threads like this, besides opening a thread of a game that you want to improve. :thumbsup:
it is also advisable to provide images always trying to keep the content of each project thread to keep things tidy.
I saw your videos and I can only tell you that there are several restrictions regarding colors on the nes and that the animation and the body of ryu is something that would not fit in the original animation blocks. greetings :woot!:
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 12:01:41 pm by sebastianangel »

Flaviogames

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #501 on: May 03, 2021, 04:26:37 pm »
sebastianangel: thanks for your attention, I was confused about the SF2 sprites from Nes, I made that sprite using the same colors as the original sprite, I just did it in a way that best portrays the SF2 SSF2 character from snes, today I posted another animation video Ryu's, still using the same existing colors, I just modified the design, are you sure it is not compatible?, check this, I know that your project is in the final stage, but the sprites that really need to be changed are the 3 sprites from animation of the characters stopped and that today I made Ryu and also their animations in advance, the other animations just need some details, I imagine I can do them all in less than 1 month
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 06:13:43 pm by Flaviogames »

Lusofonia

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #502 on: May 03, 2021, 06:13:26 pm »
the sprites that really need to be changed are the 3 sprites from animation of the characters stopped and that today I made Ryu and also their animations in advance, the other animations just need some details, I imagine I can do them all in less than 1 month

The problem is not how the sprites look in-game, the real thing here is that you can't reinsert sprites once they've been done because of how crazily arranged the fighter gfx are in the CHR. Get it? The guys behind this project, me not included, aren't trying to disencourage you from contributing, it's actually the opposite; at the stage the project currently is there's not much room for improvement. And with the few room left there's not much they can do since the current solutions for the problems aren't user-friendly to implement.
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Flaviogames

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #503 on: May 03, 2021, 07:21:32 pm »
Lusofonia: I understand, it would only work to expand the sound using MMC5, right? thanks anyway, i will re make the sprites and save, who knows in the future they may serve

Amilgi

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #504 on: May 03, 2021, 09:18:45 pm »
Made another update to the soundtrack:
- Decreased Chun Li's theme by an octave. I think this sounds more balanced, less shrill
- Also tried decreasing Vega's them by an octave. Really looking for feedback on this one (Feb 19th folder has the old version for comparison), not sure which I like more
- Added extra breakdown section to Sagat's theme
- Drafted E. Honda's and Zangief's themes! Even though they're not in the hack, they're the only 2 missing themes from the original SFII release and I wanted to cover them anyways
- Minor tweaks/fixes elsewhere

.nsf & .0cc files here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11dF3pR--vm35JpW2By_TNMsXA8_Z_j-R?usp=sharing

If we end up finding someone to help with the audio hacking I'll be sure to work with them to help optimize everything for ease of implementation. Currently I've stuck with the "no instruments" restriction, but if that's lifted then I can enhance the songs even further (especially percussion). I'm also hopeful we'll get a chance to improve the SFX too, but we'll have to see.

As always great work on the graphics everyone :)

sics

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #505 on: May 04, 2021, 12:42:55 am »
Amilgi
I think you can notice a lot of difference in this last update, especially with headphones, I also found the adaptation of the theme of Zangief amazing, which by the way is my favorite character, congratulations! :beer:

On the other hand, I think the theme of Ryu and Dhalsim would benefit if I tweaked the Triangle channel a bit, I feel it's too strident, although this is a subjective opinion?

To conclude, although I don't think it's bad, the theme of Stage End. I get the feeling that your melody differs a bit from the original.

Flaviogames
Not only that, you're also not taking into account the actual restrictions of the game, the character designs are meant to make efficient use of the resources available to the NES.


I won't go in depth, because it would be tedious, but from each group of graphics you should be able to obtain an average of 4 frames of the character, plus the complementary graphics that it may have.


In short, this is achieved, thanks to a well-calculated sprite distribution, which allows to recycle several sprites between frames...

Also, although your designs have many redeemable aspects, I personally think you should distribute better the proportions of it.


You also need to develop each design with its application in the game in mind, e.g. Ryu's eye sclera (the white part), will be colored with the colors of his clothing, and he will be the only character that can include such a detail.


On the other hand, enlarging the ribcage of the design so much will greatly increase the amount of sprites needed to represent the character in the rest of its frames.

Not to mention, for consistency this aesthetic decision should be reflected in the rest of the fighters, turning the game into a flicker-fest :P

Anyway, I wonder, isn't it wiser to just correct only Ryu's face?


I'm not going to deny that changing the techniques with which the game animations are implemented could improve considerably the graphic quality of the game, but it's obvious to suppose that each project moves within the possibilities of the people involved in it...

By the way, I'm not currently tied to the development of this hack, but I'm still one of the few here who is familiar with the character data structure of this type of game...

Streetwize
Flavio linked a video in my thread that I might as well share here (...)

Actually no, this is a Street Fighter thread, if Flaviogames wanted to talk about other topics he could have opened his own thread, asked for help in the section intended for that purpose or contact directly by direct message to the users he wanted to talk to about his project :-\
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 02:13:51 am by sics »
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Flaviogames

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #506 on: May 04, 2021, 07:40:10 am »
sics: I really liked your explanation and now I understand Nes' limitations better, I was imagining that just changing Ryu's head, it would make a big difference, I'll make the animation for him to just change his head to see the result, tell me if the foot can be improved similar to the sprite I have already done, in short, changing the head and correcting the feet, would it be compatible? a doubt the white color of the eye I have to put the color is that?

sics

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #507 on: May 04, 2021, 11:22:58 am »
Flaviogames
1. In short, changing the head and correcting the feet, would it be compatible?
The problem is not how the sprites look in-game, the real thing here is that you can't reinsert sprites once they've been done because of how crazily arranged the fighter gfx are in the CHR. Get it? The guys behind this project, me not included, aren't trying to disencourage you from contributing, it's actually the opposite; at the stage the project currently is there's not much room for improvement. And with the few room left there's not much they can do since the current solutions for the problems aren't user-friendly to implement.

Ryu has 89 frames, his face represents on average 7 sprites and the feet let's suppose 2 more, that means that to carry out your edition you should locate and edit manually, directly or indirectly 750 sprites approx. ((7 + 2) x 89 = 801)

2. Tell me if the foot can be improved similar to the sprite I have already done?
Although the idea is not bad, the feet you drew are not well designed, you must learn to handle color better and understand the shapes you're trying to represent...

3. A doubt the white color of the eye I have to put the color is that?
Ryu's eye sclera (the white part), will be colored with the colors of his clothing, and he will be the only character that can include such a detail.


That decision is yours, mine was only an observation, but I can't help warning you that the head you have drawn is disproportionately large :-\

When you draw a face you should take as a reference the hands of the character, I don't intend to design something elaborate, but here is a visual example of what I'm trying to describe...


Note 1: I don't know if it completely fits the restrictions of the game, on the other hand, I'm not saying that you do something exactly like this, it's just an example, as you can see in the previous design, I illustrated Ryu with a bigger head, since in that case I based it on the style that the rest of the fighters currently have in this bootegle.

Note 2: I would not like you to end up thinking that my intention is to demotivate you, the best thing for any artist is to continue designing to grow, so I recommend you not to give up your goals, but to face them realistically, to avoid disappointment. Because no matter what happens, you will always have the knowledge that you acquire, besides, nobody can assure that what is not possible now, will be possible in the future :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 01:03:07 pm by sics »
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Lusofonia

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #508 on: May 04, 2021, 12:38:34 pm »
Just to add what sics said: The sprites for the characters in the original bootleg are already good, there's no reason to redraw everything from scratch. The thing that would be best to do is simply fix a few minor details, like in the examples he provided where he redrew Ryu's face to be more recognizable.
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sics

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #509 on: May 04, 2021, 01:13:48 pm »
Lusofinia, I disagree, no criticism is free of subjectivity, so it is not possible to ensure that what one says, even if it is with good intentions, is accurate, valid or useful.

Therefore, it is up to each one to decide what to do with their time and in what way to carry it out... ::)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 03:25:31 pm by sics »
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Flaviogames

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #510 on: May 04, 2021, 04:56:12 pm »
guys I made a quick video to show sprites of Ryu and Ken with great details and few colors, I saw that the SF2 of nes Ryu has 6 colors, I made sprites with 5.4 and 3 colors, about the drawing having the head bigger than the normal I understand sics, but it was the way to have the details to be similar to the snes SSF2 version ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0YtzVnQLnQ

Amilgi

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #511 on: May 04, 2021, 05:38:20 pm »
I think you can notice a lot of difference in this last update, especially with headphones, I also found the adaptation of the theme of Zangief amazing, which by the way is my favorite character, congratulations! :beer:

On the other hand, I think the theme of Ryu and Dhalsim would benefit if I tweaked the Triangle channel a bit, I feel it's too strident, although this is a subjective opinion?

To conclude, although I don't think it's bad, the theme of Stage End. I get the feeling that your melody differs a bit from the original.

Ooh good catch on the stage end, put down a G instead of a G# by mistake
Your bassline comment made me reconsider the octaves I was using for the basslines - since I can't tweak the volume or timbre of the triangle, it becomes a tough decision sometimes whether to have the bass be a bit high or a bit low.
I ended up moving the stage end bassline + Ryu's, Blanka's, and Dhalsim's basslines all down an octave. They're all still bright enough I can make them out well on my bookshelf speakers and not just my headphones.
I also raised Vega's bassline back up an octave - makes a section later in the track a bit bright but the droning F# at the start feels too low. Bison's would have the same issue if I dropped it. These two are tough to balance since the basslines spans such a wide range of tones. Admittedly the originals are pretty low at the start too but agh idk :banghead:

Also added an echo to the title track.
As always, feedback is appreciated.

Updated soundtrack .nsf & .0cc: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11dF3pR--vm35JpW2By_TNMsXA8_Z_j-R?usp=sharing

CaptainHIT

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #512 on: May 04, 2021, 05:51:37 pm »
I just saw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A7Se1w-nRw on youtube. Does it anything have to do with this project?
It has great sprite collision detection and moves so smooth. I hope this is real.

Lusofonia

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #513 on: May 04, 2021, 06:51:06 pm »
Lusofinia, I disagree, no criticism is free of subjectivity, so it is not possible to ensure that what one says, even if it is with good intentions, is accurate, valid or useful.

Ah, I see. Sorry sics, I didn't want to disappoint you.

I just saw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A7Se1w-nRw on youtube. Does it anything have to do with this project?
It has great sprite collision detection and moves so smooth. I hope this is real.

Whatever that thing is, it certainly is someone else's project. I'd rather stick to sebastian's.
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CaptainHIT

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #514 on: May 04, 2021, 08:39:20 pm »
Quote
Whatever that thing is, it certainly is someone else's project. I'd rather stick to sebastian's.

Yeah, me too. But wouldn't it be great if both projects became a great big one? It also has a parallax scrolling floor, which I thought to be impossible on a NES.

Lusofonia

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #515 on: May 04, 2021, 08:53:11 pm »
Yeah, me too. But wouldn't it be great if both projects became a great big one? It also has a parallax scrolling floor, which I thought to be impossible on a NES.

NES can't do parallax; that thing there is a pseudo-parallax scroll made using the NES' resources intelligently, it isn't a real scroll.
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CaptainHIT

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #516 on: May 04, 2021, 08:56:17 pm »
NES can't do parallax; that thing there is a pseudo-parallax scroll made using the NES' resources intelligently, it isn't a real scroll.
Yeah. Well, I guess this guy is doing commercial stuff anyway. I don't think he'll collaborate in a free project like this.

Lusofonia

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #517 on: May 04, 2021, 10:37:38 pm »
Yeah. Well, I guess this guy is doing commercial stuff anyway. I don't think he'll collaborate in a free project like this.
I think it will not be easy to merge projects. He's rebuilding SFII from scratch, they're taking an already existing SFII bootleg and altering it. The problem isn't even if that person will work or not, the problem is the technical difficulties of such thing.
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shakunetsu

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #518 on: May 05, 2021, 02:00:51 am »
Both are offering different aesthetics and gameplay experience.

So it doesn't matter. They are different games at there own.

And both have different technicality.


BZXGCS

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Re: STREET FIGHTER 2 DELUXE NES
« Reply #519 on: May 05, 2021, 02:01:02 am »
I think it will not be easy to merge projects. He's rebuilding SFII from scratch, they're taking an already existing SFII bootleg and altering it. The problem isn't even if that person will work or not, the problem is the technical difficulties of such thing.
That project indicates a fact: The way to add new character by batch really exists.

May 05, 2021, 02:03:23 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I think it will not be easy to merge projects. He's rebuilding SFII from scratch, they're taking an already existing SFII bootleg and altering it. The problem isn't even if that person will work or not, the problem is the technical difficulties of such thing.
And moving character from one nes sf2 game to another is possible.