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Author Topic: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)  (Read 433330 times)

Iunnrais

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1180 on: September 18, 2021, 06:44:11 am »
I'm having trouble getting the hack of TWUE+MSU1 to work properly... in that it's giving me a black screen the moment it starts the first battle in Narshe.  Here's what I did:

I started with a US 1.0 rom.

I applied Dancing Mad to it.

I patched it with TWUE 3.04 + bugfix + opera + add ons.

Loaded it up in Batocera for RaspberryPi4, which uses either SNES9x or BSNES (I'm not sure which is used for the MSU-1 portion).  Regardless, it loaded just fine, Dancing Mad's CD quality music plays wonderfully, I get to Narshe, the guards attack me, and it goes to a black screen.  The battle music is playing, but the black screen is softlocked there.

Any advice for troubleshooting?

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1181 on: September 18, 2021, 04:04:31 pm »
It may be conflicting somewhere with some of the changes made since the last time Dancing Mad updated. But then again, try patching Woolsey Uncensored Edition first, and then patch Dancing Mad.

Iunnrais

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1182 on: September 19, 2021, 12:33:46 am »
Alas, Dancing Mad doesn't work on top of the most recent TWUE patch at all.  It's Dancing Mad first, or not at all. Gah.  I've posted on QHIMM where the dancing mad developer sometimes hangs out.

Edit in case someone else encounters this problem:  Fixed it!  Turns out my "US 1.0 rom" was not 1.0, despite being distinctly labeled as 1.0.  Sigh.  A fresh copy verified as actually 1.0 now works fine.  Yay!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 09:13:11 am by Iunnrais »

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1183 on: September 21, 2021, 11:42:29 pm »
Alas, Dancing Mad doesn't work on top of the most recent TWUE patch at all.  It's Dancing Mad first, or not at all. Gah.  I've posted on QHIMM where the dancing mad developer sometimes hangs out.

Edit in case someone else encounters this problem:  Fixed it!  Turns out my "US 1.0 rom" was not 1.0, despite being distinctly labeled as 1.0.  Sigh.  A fresh copy verified as actually 1.0 now works fine.  Yay!

That's great to hear. A lot of issues I see are because a lot of people do not know if their ROM is 1.0.

Ajogamer

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1184 on: October 07, 2021, 08:47:05 pm »
So first off, I'd like to say thank you for making this patch (and FFIV Namingway Edition, which I also love), which in many ways is my ideal version of FFVI. Ever since I first played the GBA translation, I appreciated the improved accuracy it brought, but disliked how it removed some of the memorable lines and charm from the SNES version. This patch mixes and matches in a way I really appreciate, and gave me exactly the combination of the two that I wanted.

Anyway, getting to the main part of my post, I recently finished a runthrough of the game, and while I greatly enjoyed my time with it, I did notice a few lines here and there which could potentially be edited or tweaked in some way. While some're pretty cut and dry (typos), others may be more up to preference, so consider some of these suggestions; I know you may not see everything exactly as I do, and it's your patch, in the end.


#1



While I like and get the intention here, which is basically combining the memorable SNES version of the line with the more true to the original "like a bear" line (which is needed to make Sabin's line shortly after make sense), the idea of "bodybuilding bear that strayed from his gym" sounds odd to me, since generally, bears are wild animals, and not something you'd see working out at a gym or participating in body-building.

As a result, I'd suggest something like this instead:

Quote
Terra: You're his...brother? At first glance I thought he was some bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym... He's built like a bear!

If this does get changed, then Sabin's line right after would also need some tweaking (since "body-building" and "bear" are now separated concepts). Currently, it's "Bodybuilding Bear!?". It could potentially be changed to "I look like a bear!?" or if you want to be a bit more short/blunt, perhaps "Like a bear!?"


#2



So, this one's a line from the original SNES script, but it's a line that probably should've been changed in some way, since it has a mistranslation of sorts, which was also fixed in more recent translations.

Basically, the line as it is above doesn't make much sense in the context of the scene, since Interceptor immediately runs ahead after barking at us; he doesn't join or stick with the team. Essentially, what the line means to imply the opposite of what the SNES line says: Interceptor isn't coming with us, he wants us to come with him.

As a result, I'd suggest either just using what the GBA version used for this line:

Quote
Are you trying to tell me to follow you?

Or if you want something a bit closer to the SNES line, then maybe:

Quote
You're...telling us to follow you?


#3



This one's really just a small suggestion. While it gets the point across fine and is perfectly accurate and correct as-is, I feel the way "could" is used three times within the same sentence makes it a bit clunky-sounding. As a result, here are a few ways it could potentially be changed, should you see fit to do so:

Quote
I suppose no human could ever defeat one...but oh, it sure would be something to brag about if anyone could manage...

Quote
I doubt any human could ever defeat one...but oh, if someone were able to do so, it'd certainly be something to brag about!

Quote
I doubt any human could ever defeat one...but oh, if someone managed to do so, it'd sure be something to brag about!

There are certainly other ways this line could be rewritten or be mixed between the translations aside from the above, of course. (And the re-use of "could" here is also minor enough that it's certainly fine to leave alone if you prefer it as-is.)


#4



This one's pretty cut and dry. I'm fairly sure the word "though" in this sentence is a typo, and is meant to be "thou".


#5



While I know this one is just re-using the SNES line with a minor tweak (changing "expire" > "die"), I actually think this is a line that's better off being changed further, since both it and the original SNES line are inaccurate to the way Wrexsoul's fight mechanics work.

Basically, Wrexsoul only appears when the character he possesses is fully dead, so "about to die" is inaccurate, and can throw people off ("about to die" sounds much more like it means when characters are in their critical state).

The GBA translation uses the following for this line, which is much more accurate to the fight mechanics:

Quote
Perhaps I'll return to this form once you've expired...

So as a result, I'd suggest either using the GBA line in this instance, or just tweaking the SNES line a bit further, perhaps to this:

Quote
I'll only appear in this form again once you're dead!


And that's it for my suggestions, though I'd certainly be willing to discus, explain my reasoning further, or try and come up with other options for any of these lines if that'd be helpful.


Now, there's one other thing I'd like to ask about, but it's a more personal request (and minor compared to the above suggestions), since it just has to do with my own personal preferences, and the various bugfix patches that are bundled with the translation.

Basically, I get the idea of wanting to bundle in bugfixes; Final Fantasy VI is a very buggy game, both in number and in the seriousness of a few of them. I also definitely appreciate the amount of options you provided, too.

That said, none of the current patch options quite fit my ideal. The closest would probably be the "+ Bug fixes & Add-Ons" version of the patch (without the updated opera), but there are two bugs that are fixed in that version which I would actually prefer are left alone, since they're ones I see as fun rather than annoying or harmful.

The first is the Evade Bug Fix. Now, this is one I can definitely understand wanting to have fixed, since it's certainly a big and far-reaching one, and the game's likely a bit more balanced with it fixed (and having played through both the unpatched SNES and GBA version more than ones, I know the game plays pretty well and not as different as some may expect both with and without it fixed). That said, it's also a glitch that I found fun to optimize around, and I enjoyed being able to have Celes or Terra raise their MBlock high as soon as I reach the WoR and essentially become dodge-tanks (it's one setup I find fun and easier to do for early-WoR Colosseum betting, too).

The second was the Banon Riding bug. This one's a more minor concern to me, since it's a niche and minor bug, and easy to witness in other ways (like Youtube videos), but I enjoy the silliness of it existing, and found it fun to occasionally go out of my way to see. It's also something that never gets seen at all unless you go out of your way to visit the one specific stable Bannon can be brought to, which really has no point in being visited at all, aside from seeing this one bug (that's likely why this bug was overlooked in the first place). As a result, fixing it really feels purely like a negative to me, since it removes a fun, obscure, visual-only bug, and makes a fairly useless hidden stable even more useless. (Perhaps I should also add that another reason I care about this bug is because I want to use this patch to show a friend this game for the first time in the near-future, but this bug is also something I'd also like to be able to show him, and it's much neater if I can say "visit this hidden stable and have Banon ride a Chocobo for a surprise" than "hey, take a look at this Youtube video").

Anyway, I understand the existing variations of the patch likely already cover most people's needs, and making new versions of the patch is something I can assume may be time-consuming, so I don't really expect you to make a new version just for my personal needs. So rather than ask for a custom version, I'd really just like to know, if I wanted to make a more ideal version of the game for my own personal use, how would I do so?

It'd certainly be simplest if there were some way to "unpatch" those two bugs in particular somehow, but I'm not sure that'd be too feasible. What would make sense to me would be to first patch the game with the base version (which would just be the text changes and few bigger bugfixes included in all patches), and then download and manually patch every additional bugfix one by one, with the exception of two I mentioned above. Would that work, or would there be some issue I'd run into, or additional considerations I'd need to keep in mind (such as patching order)? Or is there an easier way? Of course, if I'm off the mark with my assumptions to begin with, then feel free to ignore these questions and just answer in whatever way is easier and makes sense.

In any case, thanks once again for making this excellent patch, and also for reading and my rather lengthy post here (the suggestions to the translation are definitely the more important part; the rest is just for personal curiosity, and since I know I'll want to replay FFVI many more times in the future, so the more ideal I can get it for my preferences, the better). I hope my feedback is helpful for improving the patch, as well!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 09:13:33 pm by Ajogamer »

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1185 on: October 09, 2021, 10:11:16 am »
So first off, I'd like to say thank you for making this patch (and FFIV Namingway Edition, which I also love), which in many ways is my ideal version of FFVI. Ever since I first played the GBA translation, I appreciated the improved accuracy it brought, but disliked how it removed some of the memorable lines and charm from the SNES version. This patch mixes and matches in a way I really appreciate, and gave me exactly the combination of the two that I wanted.

Anyway, getting to the main part of my post, I recently finished a runthrough of the game, and while I greatly enjoyed my time with it, I did notice a few lines here and there which could potentially be edited or tweaked in some way. While some're pretty cut and dry (typos), others may be more up to preference, so consider some of these suggestions; I know you may not see everything exactly as I do, and it's your patch, in the end.


#1



While I like and get the intention here, which is basically combining the memorable SNES version of the line with the more true to the original "like a bear" line (which is needed to make Sabin's line shortly after make sense), the idea of "bodybuilding bear that strayed from his gym" sounds odd to me, since generally, bears are wild animals, and not something you'd see working out at a gym or participating in body-building.

As a result, I'd suggest something like this instead:

If this does get changed, then Sabin's line right after would also need some tweaking (since "body-building" and "bear" are now separated concepts). Currently, it's "Bodybuilding Bear!?". It could potentially be changed to "I look like a bear!?" or if you want to be a bit more short/blunt, perhaps "Like a bear!?"


#2



So, this one's a line from the original SNES script, but it's a line that probably should've been changed in some way, since it has a mistranslation of sorts, which was also fixed in more recent translations.

Basically, the line as it is above doesn't make much sense in the context of the scene, since Interceptor immediately runs ahead after barking at us; he doesn't join or stick with the team. Essentially, what the line means to imply the opposite of what the SNES line says: Interceptor isn't coming with us, he wants us to come with him.

As a result, I'd suggest either just using what the GBA version used for this line:

Or if you want something a bit closer to the SNES line, then maybe:


#3



This one's really just a small suggestion. While it gets the point across fine and is perfectly accurate and correct as-is, I feel the way "could" is used three times within the same sentence makes it a bit clunky-sounding. As a result, here are a few ways it could potentially be changed, should you see fit to do so:

There are certainly other ways this line could be rewritten or be mixed between the translations aside from the above, of course. (And the re-use of "could" here is also minor enough that it's certainly fine to leave alone if you prefer it as-is.)


#4



This one's pretty cut and dry. I'm fairly sure the word "though" in this sentence is a typo, and is meant to be "thou".


#5



While I know this one is just re-using the SNES line with a minor tweak (changing "expire" > "die"), I actually think this is a line that's better off being changed further, since both it and the original SNES line are inaccurate to the way Wrexsoul's fight mechanics work.

Basically, Wrexsoul only appears when the character he possesses is fully dead, so "about to die" is inaccurate, and can throw people off ("about to die" sounds much more like it means when characters are in their critical state).

The GBA translation uses the following for this line, which is much more accurate to the fight mechanics:

So as a result, I'd suggest either using the GBA line in this instance, or just tweaking the SNES line a bit further, perhaps to this:


And that's it for my suggestions, though I'd certainly be willing to discus, explain my reasoning further, or try and come up with other options for any of these lines if that'd be helpful.


Now, there's one other thing I'd like to ask about, but it's a more personal request (and minor compared to the above suggestions), since it just has to do with my own personal preferences, and the various bugfix patches that are bundled with the translation.

Basically, I get the idea of wanting to bundle in bugfixes; Final Fantasy VI is a very buggy game, both in number and in the seriousness of a few of them. I also definitely appreciate the amount of options you provided, too.

That said, none of the current patch options quite fit my ideal. The closest would probably be the "+ Bug fixes & Add-Ons" version of the patch (without the updated opera), but there are two bugs that are fixed in that version which I would actually prefer are left alone, since they're ones I see as fun rather than annoying or harmful.

The first is the Evade Bug Fix. Now, this is one I can definitely understand wanting to have fixed, since it's certainly a big and far-reaching one, and the game's likely a bit more balanced with it fixed (and having played through both the unpatched SNES and GBA version more than ones, I know the game plays pretty well and not as different as some may expect both with and without it fixed). That said, it's also a glitch that I found fun to optimize around, and I enjoyed being able to have Celes or Terra raise their MBlock high as soon as I reach the WoR and essentially become dodge-tanks (it's one setup I find fun and easier to do for early-WoR Colosseum betting, too).

The second was the Banon Riding bug. This one's a more minor concern to me, since it's a niche and minor bug, and easy to witness in other ways (like Youtube videos), but I enjoy the silliness of it existing, and found it fun to occasionally go out of my way to see. It's also something that never gets seen at all unless you go out of your way to visit the one specific stable Bannon can be brought to, which really has no point in being visited at all, aside from seeing this one bug (that's likely why this bug was overlooked in the first place). As a result, fixing it really feels purely like a negative to me, since it removes a fun, obscure, visual-only bug, and makes a fairly useless hidden stable even more useless. (Perhaps I should also add that another reason I care about this bug is because I want to use this patch to show a friend this game for the first time in the near-future, but this bug is also something I'd also like to be able to show him, and it's much neater if I can say "visit this hidden stable and have Banon ride a Chocobo for a surprise" than "hey, take a look at this Youtube video").

Anyway, I understand the existing variations of the patch likely already cover most people's needs, and making new versions of the patch is something I can assume may be time-consuming, so I don't really expect you to make a new version just for my personal needs. So rather than ask for a custom version, I'd really just like to know, if I wanted to make a more ideal version of the game for my own personal use, how would I do so?

It'd certainly be simplest if there were some way to "unpatch" those two bugs in particular somehow, but I'm not sure that'd be too feasible. What would make sense to me would be to first patch the game with the base version (which would just be the text changes and few bigger bugfixes included in all patches), and then download and manually patch every additional bugfix one by one, with the exception of two I mentioned above. Would that work, or would there be some issue I'd run into, or additional considerations I'd need to keep in mind (such as patching order)? Or is there an easier way? Of course, if I'm off the mark with my assumptions to begin with, then feel free to ignore these questions and just answer in whatever way is easier and makes sense.

In any case, thanks once again for making this excellent patch, and also for reading and my rather lengthy post here (the suggestions to the translation are definitely the more important part; the rest is just for personal curiosity, and since I know I'll want to replay FFVI many more times in the future, so the more ideal I can get it for my preferences, the better). I hope my feedback is helpful for improving the patch, as well!

Thank you very much for the feedback! It's really appreciated. For the bugfixes, Banon Riding actually has an anti-patch in its download that should reverse that if you so desire. The Evade bugfix was made a long time ago, and it is a headered patch without an anti-patch. I can try to make one if it works.

As of the the lines of dialog, I'll definitely be fixing 2 through 5. The bodybuilding bear line I thought conveyed the same level of humor, and I wanted it to fit in one dialog box. Not that I can't separate them though. Also, my thinking was Zangief who actually wrestles bears. But like you said, this one is a matter of preference. But it would be better at preserving the original line. Anyone else have any suggestions?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 10:25:38 am by Rodimus Primal »

Ajogamer

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1186 on: October 09, 2021, 11:34:51 am »
Thank you very much for the feedback! It's really appreciated. For the bugfixes, Banon Riding actually has an anti-patch in its download that should reverse that if you so desire. The Evade bugfix was made a long time ago, and it is a headered patch without an anti-patch. I can try to make one if it works.
Oh, nice to hear there's an anti-patch for the Banon Riding bug! That should definitely work for that, then. It's unfortunate there isn't already one for the evade bugfix. If you are able to make an anti-patch for it, that'd definitely be appreciated, but I have no idea how easy or difficult that is to do, so certainly don't feel like you have to do so if it winds up being too much trouble.

As of the the lines of dialog, I'll definitely be fixing 2 through 5. The bodybuilding bear line I thought conveyed the same level of humor, and I wanted it to fit in one dialog box. Not that I can't separate them though. Also, my thinking was Zangief who actually wrestles bears. But like you said, this one is a matter of preference. But it would be better at preserving the original line. Anyone else have any suggestions?

Glad to hear 2 through 5 will be getting fixed! As for the bodybuilding bear line, I can understand your reasoning, and I definitely get what you mean about wanting to keep it all in a single text box; I wasn't too sure how much room there was when I made the initial suggestion.

Since it sounds like room may be the primary concern with it, here are a few other ways it can potentially be written out.

I think either of these would cut it down to a similar length as the current line:

Quote
Terra: You're his...brother? At first I thought he was some bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym...or a bear!

Quote
Terra: You're his...brother? At first I thought he was a bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym...or was a bear!

If a tiny bit more space can be afforded however (I see a bit of a gap in-game, but I don't know how much character space there actually is), then I might suggest one of these instead, since I think they sound better and/or preserve the original line more:

Quote
Terra: You're his...brother? At first glance I thought he was a bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym... He's like a bear!

Quote
Terra: You're his...brother? At first glance I thought he was a bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym...or even a bear!

Quote
Terra: You're his...brother? At first glance I thought he was some bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym...or a bear!

Quote
Terra: You're his...brother? At first glance I thought he was some bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym... He's like a bear!

Of course, if none of these or any other potential suggestions people may give feel suitable, then it's certainly fine to leave alone as well; it's definitely one that's partly up to preference, and I'm just throwing around ideas.

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1187 on: October 09, 2021, 11:56:40 am »
Oh, nice to hear there's an anti-patch for the Banon Riding bug! That should definitely work for that, then. It's unfortunate there isn't already one for the evade bugfix. If you are able to make an anti-patch for it, that'd definitely be appreciated, but I have no idea how easy or difficult that is to do, so certainly don't feel like you have to do so if it winds up being too much trouble.

Glad to hear 2 through 5 will be getting fixed! As for the bodybuilding bear line, I can understand your reasoning, and I definitely get what you mean about wanting to keep it all in a single text box; I wasn't too sure how much room there was when I made the initial suggestion.

Since it sounds like room may be the primary concern with it, here are a few other ways it can potentially be written out.

I think either of these would cut it down to a similar length as the current line:

If a tiny bit more space can be afforded however (I see a bit of a gap in-game, but I don't know how much character space there actually is), then I might suggest one of these instead, since I think they sound better and/or preserve the original line more:

Of course, if none of these or any other potential suggestions people may give feel suitable, then it's certainly fine to leave alone as well; it's definitely one that's partly up to preference, and I'm just throwing around ideas.

Yeah there's definitely a character limit within the dialog boxes, but I do have plenty of room for tweaking lines in the script overall. If I were to separate them, it would more be in line like this -

Quote
Terra: You're his...brother?

At first glance I thought he was some bodybuilder who had strayed from his gym. He's built like a bear!"

Followed by Sabin stating:

Quote
Sabin: Built like a bear?


Ajogamer

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Re: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 3.04)
« Reply #1188 on: October 09, 2021, 12:26:08 pm »
Yeah there's definitely a character limit within the dialog boxes, but I do have plenty of room for tweaking lines in the script overall. If I were to separate them, it would more be in line like this -

Followed by Sabin stating:

Ah, I see. I think separated and written like the way you have it there looks good to me, though I understand it can be nicer when text isn't overly broken up in general. I generally think it doesn't bother me much as long as it's not in the middle of a sentence, but I'm unsure how others feel.