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Author Topic: Save States Discussion  (Read 1658 times)

Spooniest

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Re: Save States Discussion
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2020, 01:40:41 am »
I think the Ninja Gaiden developers answered that before, kind of.
They expected players to actually use the power-ups encountered, and thought they had created an okay difficulty game.
Only later they learned players weren't played it like they designed, and having trouble.

I think I remember what you're talking about. The USA manual calls it the Jump & Slash Technique, the one that is a blueish spiral drawing.

I guess their thinking was that players would eventually figure out that they're supposed to hold on to it, but the problem with it is that every time you want to attack in the air, you have to use up Ninja Power to do it, so players (naturally wanting to conserve Ninja Power as ammo for bosses) were loathe to use the Jump & Slash for this reason; it's very difficult to control when Ryu will execute it (you have to hold down on the dpad while jumping to prevent it from being used, which is impossible in the sections we're talking about in 6-2 and 6-3, if you don't want to end up at the bottom of a pit).
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Save States Discussion
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2020, 11:31:14 am »
Weapon inventories were a thing from about 1988 onwards, they could've put one in their game.
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Re: Save States Discussion
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2020, 01:14:45 pm »
Weapon inventories were a thing from about 1988 onwards, they could've put one in their game.

Oh of course, there's all kinds of jankiness in Ninja Gaiden 1... The funny thing is that in 2 sequels it remained largely the same game, just with the addition of a new weapon or two each time, and sometimes they took away weapons (the Jump & Slash didn't survive past the first game).

It's this kind of 'figuring things out' process, that I feel leads to the perceived 'unfairness' of games of the era, which, in a roundabout way of coming back to the topic, is what probably causes a lot of people to just want to use savestates at times in these games.

But I'll echo what someone else said; it's only a game, intended purely for your enjoyment. If savestates make it fun, then they are a-o-k. It only becomes cheating, if you yourself have imposed a challenge on yourself as you play.
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Jorpho

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Re: Save States Discussion
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2020, 02:30:18 pm »
But I'll echo what someone else said; it's only a game, intended purely for your enjoyment. If savestates make it fun, then they are a-o-k. It only becomes cheating, if you yourself have imposed a challenge on yourself as you play.
The problem comes down to the skill of the game designer, I think.  There are some bits of game design that are flat-out bad, but I think there are some bits where the game designers deliberately set out to make a challenge that could be overcome with some exertion and ultimately provide greater satisfaction than you would otherwise find if you circumvented it.

I played through Zack & Wiki on the Wii a while ago and it's such an excellent game, but I think I severely diminished the experience by deliberately avoiding the built-in system of lives and hints that the game provided, out of the belief that there would be some kind of reward that way. There was not – and I most certainly would have enjoyed myself more if I hadn't wound up replaying some sections over and over again.

But then there's the Pit of 100 Trials in Super Paper Mario, which is oddly one of the most satisfying experiences I can recall.  There's such a feeling of isolation as you go deeper and deeper and contemplate whether you should give up, exit, and save your accumulated experience or press onward and risk it all.  Save states would have made it quite forgettable.
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