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Author Topic: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion  (Read 2903 times)

Arima

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Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« on: July 25, 2020, 08:55:14 am »
In every mod there are foundation stones that enabled the mod itself to progress from a mere idea to tangible reality.
And those foundation stones are moral virtues which are of such crucial importance that a mod could not be brought into existence without them.

This is something that I've been thinking a lot about and would like to discuss to figure out what is right and wrong and what needs to be added or subtracted from the elaborate equation.

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Inspiration
Have the desire to find and create an idea from pre-existing things that you hold interest in and shape them into something new and filled with potential.

Skill
Have the necessary knowledge and means to slowly and surely build an idea into realization.

Generosity
A Mod cannot exist if the creator does not devote any on their own time towards its creation.
And in some cases, it can fail if no one is able and willing to offer direct help when it is needed.

Motivation
Have the restless drive to see a project from start to finish, even if it means going on and off at erratic intervals.

Trust and Faith
Have Trust and Faith in your self, your ideas, and your skills.
Have Trust and Faith in those that come forward with sincerity to offer help.
Have Trust and Faith in your honoring of an agreement, whether you're the head of the project or a volunteer offering help.

Courage
Have the Courage to go forward and try.
Have the Courage to take a risk.
Have the Courage to make mistakes and learn from them.
Have the Courage to look and ask for help.
Have the Courage to face and listen to criticism and, in some rare cases, the malice of spiteful, hardened hearts who only exist to hate everyone and everything around them.

FAST6191

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2020, 12:08:49 pm »
Inspiration.
I am a cynical bastard so can usually give you a long list of things I would have changed about a game.

Skill.
In some ways, however there are ways to achieve results without the top tier skills. Usually a creative application of cheats and/or spending a bit of time doing brute force.

Generous you say.
I usually stick to things that amuse me. Fortunately hacking does occasionally amuse me which is why you might find a thanks on a football game (I dislike watching, playing, hearing about and playing games based around it).

Motivation.
A puzzle I can't solve or will take some effort to solve. That is fun. Quite content to show others the way and allow them the option for some grunt work.

"Have Trust and Faith in your self, your ideas, and your skills."
I fail all the time. That is half the fun.

Courage
See earlier about doing things for me.

Jorpho

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2020, 02:28:00 pm »
would like to discuss to figure out what is right and wrong and what needs to be added or subtracted from the elaborate equation.
Why?

In the end most of these points could easily apply to any creative endeavor.
This signature is an illusion and is a trap devised by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!

rogueKlyntar

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2020, 11:14:09 pm »
Lol as somebody who had philosophy as a major for most of my college career, I can say that Nintendo's copyright lawyers' reaction to this thread would be hysterical.
"Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest." - Patricia Tannis, Borderlands 2

Supergamerguy

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 10:24:36 am »
I mean, I completely agree with you Arima. All of your points need to be taken into consideration when making a mod and we all need to be civil to each other when trying to accomplish our dreams. That's why we have the phrase constructive criticism. Even if your mod/hack is successful among the populace, the way and methods you took to get there is important too.

That's why I empathize with so many people's arguments over Pacandsacdave's hacks. I'm not entirely sure if their info is right, but from what they claim, he utilizes a lot of previous work on hacks (some of it even completed works and mostly finished mods), and claims it entirely as his own without the permission or even the credit towards the original mods, and that's just downright criminal (if not illegal in the eyes if the law, just wrong in general).

You should never steal someone else's work without first asking permission, or at the very least giving credit. >:(
Mega Man 7 > 3 > 2 > 9 > Wily Wars (with SRAM hack) > 5 > 6 > 4 > Powered Up > V(GB) > 10 > 1 > The Power Fighters > The Power Battle > IV(GB) > III(GB) > II(GB) > Dr. Wily's Revenge(GB) > Mega Man 8 > Mega Man and Bass > Mega Man (Game Gear) > Mega Man and Bass - Challengers from the Future

Sliver X

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2020, 11:02:57 am »
I spent literal years of my life ROM hacking.

I did it for the sake of it: Some people simply like the feeling brought on by the act of creating something. Whether that act is something like ROM hacking or basket weaving is inconsequential and doesn't require any kind of "philosophy" to pull off.

Creativity is an innate urge.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 11:08:47 am by Sliver X »

Chronosplit

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2020, 01:56:16 pm »
Is it wrong for someone else to revise a book after the author is dead?  No.
Is it wrong for someone else to revise a ROM file after the devs have no intention to update it?  No.

Supergamerguy

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2020, 02:25:23 pm »
Is it wrong for someone else to revise a book after the author is dead?  No.
Is it wrong for someone else to revise a ROM file after the devs have no intention to update it?  No.

Would agree
Mega Man 7 > 3 > 2 > 9 > Wily Wars (with SRAM hack) > 5 > 6 > 4 > Powered Up > V(GB) > 10 > 1 > The Power Fighters > The Power Battle > IV(GB) > III(GB) > II(GB) > Dr. Wily's Revenge(GB) > Mega Man 8 > Mega Man and Bass > Mega Man (Game Gear) > Mega Man and Bass - Challengers from the Future

Euyira

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2020, 10:55:29 am »
What about value or worth of what you create? Should there be satisfying reason to making or sharing your work? Even if 1/1mil end up liking your mod? When is your time well-spent?

And what happens when you addendum off someone else's work and they (other hobbyist) explicitly forbid you with takedown threats? Like restoring original -copyrights-? Changing their sprites and design? "Improving" with your own script changes, but ruining the vision of the hacked work you based off?

Discussed in the spirit of theory. Guidance?

Supergamerguy

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2020, 11:02:30 pm »
What about value or worth of what you create? Should there be satisfying reason to making or sharing your work? Even if 1/1mil end up liking your mod? When is your time well-spent?

And what happens when you addendum off someone else's work and they (other hobbyist) explicitly forbid you with takedown threats? Like restoring original -copyrights-? Changing their sprites and design? "Improving" with your own script changes, but ruining the vision of the hacked work you based off?

Discussed in the spirit of theory. Guidance?

I dont think that would be "ruining" anything. It's just a personalized version of their work tailored to what you thought it should have been like. As long as you credit the original hackers and dont get prideful about your version as the "superior" one, then others can decide which version they want to play and the one that sits better with them.
Mega Man 7 > 3 > 2 > 9 > Wily Wars (with SRAM hack) > 5 > 6 > 4 > Powered Up > V(GB) > 10 > 1 > The Power Fighters > The Power Battle > IV(GB) > III(GB) > II(GB) > Dr. Wily's Revenge(GB) > Mega Man 8 > Mega Man and Bass > Mega Man (Game Gear) > Mega Man and Bass - Challengers from the Future

Euyira

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2020, 11:50:19 pm »
I agree it's just purely alternative taste. But I know some (in)(active) hackers who are very defensive / hostile to anyone deriving from their work, even when full credit is given and addendum patch contains nothing from original fork. Just mentioning you based off them or showing a picture is enough to trigger a warning.

I appreciate your opinion though as I contemplate releasing some of my own hacks here, original or extension.

tc

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Re: Virtues of Modding - A Philosophical Discussion
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2020, 01:05:10 am »
I'm of the opinion that while a person's own work is theirs, tasteful and sufficiently credited alterations have room for fair use. Previous hacker(s) shouldn't be hypocritical since they did just that to the original game, likely without any attempt to seek permission.