News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools  (Read 35174 times)

[Unknown]

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #100 on: August 24, 2021, 07:49:51 pm »
Well, I'm glad I asked because a lot of people seem to have very strong opinions about this small snippet of dialog.

I'd like to note that the v1.0.0 patch is not, in fact, excessively literal throughout.  For example, the original Japanese assumes (without so stating) that you of course know that traffic lights in Japan are red and blue (ish), a fact that we assumed most users of this translation would not know.

There's also plenty of rhymes and puns that are not exactly literal.  If that was your expectation, you may need to wait another 20 years for someone else to create a different patch.

My personal perspective is that I want someone to be able to reasonably understand the original meaning/intent.  I don't want to insert my own opinions into the dialog, but I also don't want to have "TL note: keikaku means plan."

As to this dialog, I just want to clarify that the subject of this dialog is a brief part of the main story (not a sidequest), who you must talk to in order to progress in the game.  Only two other characters refer to them, one of which with the dialog in question.

I don't have a strong opinion here, but it does seem to me that it's being interpreted by some in an unintentional way, with one person even asking if the saying was intended as a vulgarity.  Obviously, people can misinterpret any dialog, but it does seem like this particular dialog has been misinterpreted more frequently.

Making players choose between two versions of a translation patch for a single line of dialog seems a bit silly to me.  There was some disagreement during editing over things like "Tap" and "Press", but that also didn't deserve two separate patches.

I asked for feedback because I did want to understand the opinions of the community.  At the moment, I'm currently leaning on the side of changing it (perhaps using they instead of she to address the concern of removing the possible crossdressing interpretation), but I appreciate all the comments and have read through them.  There's no dialog that can please absolutely everyone, but there really must be a single recommended version of the patch.

-[Unknown]

VicVergil

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #101 on: August 24, 2021, 09:32:53 pm »
The "did you know?" wasn't there in the original,
It IS there in the original. Notice I left some parts in black.
Japanese use particles that denote tone, and the one here loosely implies that it's a girl saying this, stating a fact, trying to draw the attention of the speaker... Unless you want that tone lost, you include equivalent speech patterns from English.
That's the part where localizers can afford some free roam to spice up the line or make it sound natural. NOT changing the characterization entirely, adding memes, profanities (looking at you FF7R), or destroying the actual useful information.

But yeah, it's really unfortunate that streamers and twitter latched on to a misunderstanding. Not sure what can be done about it honestly, since there's no end to people drooling with their pitchforks in hand waiting for the next bit of outrage.

The original wasn't even "dress/act like a girl", but that the clothes are feminine/girly looking. It's an adjective for the clothing itself. Even a Scottish middle-aged guy in a kilt would fit this description. Or whatever this girl speaking (assumed a girl from the speech patterns) would think is "feminine", even pink color-colored t-shirts.

So right now, you'd have me believe that a bunch of new accounts are now accusing others of transphobia, while using traditional gender dichotomy stereotypes about clothing to effectively try and pressure a translation team into misgendering a male child, and erase a rare positive portrayal of crossdressing, which they present as the only correct moral choice. And they say this with a straight face.
Fully knowing that the proposed edit will not only be more offensive to transwomen (equating them to crossdressers) but to crossdressers as well. And I'm sure they'll be coming back for seconds and acting offended again at a situation of their own making.
And why not, a Round 3, where they say this character being in "Soy City" is totally intended as an insult against either community.

What's the big idea? It's not like we have an overabundance of GBA translators we need to cull.

And despite the availability of the modding tools, no one stepped to make their own version? Perhaps because it's easier to throw unfounded accusations then to actually TRY rewriting it and do "the right thing" and submit it and take responsibility for it. How would THEY love to be on the receiving end of this kind of ill-faith criticism?
While I feel sorry for people strung along this lie, I can't be sorry that much because you shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet in the first place without researching at first what you're getting angry about, and refraining from making assumptions, lest you're used as unwitting pawns for a harassment campaign in progress.
Shame on the individual who started this, who knew exactly what they were doing.

Baiting translators to insert offensive content to draw out the fake controversy even further? I've seen it all. Is this how you pay back translators doing this on their free time?


sharksnack

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #102 on: August 24, 2021, 11:08:56 pm »
I meant the "did you know?" isn't explicitly printed on the screen. I'm fluent in Japanese as well, and I basically just shared how I'd personally translate it while keeping the tone in mind.

But if you're going to nitpick, I'm not sure where you got "you're looking for" with うけつけ. It's in hiragana and I haven't played the game at all, but I'd assume it's 受付, so it'd be along the lines of receptionist.

And "dressed like a girl" works fine for 女の子みたいな恰好. They have the appearance of a girl -> They're wearing clothes that make them look like a girl -> They're dressed like a girl. (That's not to say this is the only correct translation by any means, just one option)

My post wasn't intended as a reply to your literal translation, but just wanted to share how I'd interpret the original dialogue for more perspective.

ifightdragons

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #103 on: August 25, 2021, 04:16:33 am »
VicVergil: Calm down, it's an old Japanese game. Stop chastising people who simply disagree with you. You're acting like a jerk.

[Unknown]: You don't have to succumb to pressure from any of these aggressive social justice warriors by inserting modern day identity politics, effectively alienating a portion of the potential audience. Using personal pronouns in this game like "they/them" for a singular person, makes absolutely no sense. Most Japanese games wouldn't use it today, and it wouldn't even be a thought back then. Same goes for the suggestion by PowerPanda right below. It's all identity politics and semantic play.

That being said, you do what you want to do. Don't let VicVergil on a war path, or me, persuade you.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 01:04:40 pm by ifightdragons »

PowerPanda

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #104 on: August 25, 2021, 12:41:20 pm »
Could you, instead of using the word "dress" use the word "cosplay"? There are plenty of cisgendered males who cosplay as girls.

TomatoAdventure_Fan

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #105 on: September 17, 2021, 01:37:21 pm »
I'm so glad that this one finally got translated. I have been lurking around this forum for a long time now, eagerly following the progress of the translation. Thank you to everyone who worked on this project, I have been having a great time with it so far.

I am looking to 100% the game. So far, I have made it up to
Spoiler:
Gimmick Palace
. Before I finish off the main story I wanted to
Spoiler:
complete all of the side quests
.

I have already
Spoiler:
mastered all of the Gimmicks
and have moved onto
Spoiler:
obtaining all the Gimica cards
. I successfully
Spoiler:
became a Gimica Master and beat Big Bertha at the Lardoseum
. When I did, she told me that
Spoiler:
"there was someone else that would eventually be stronger than me"
. I looked it up and it seems like I need to
Spoiler:
go beat the receptionist at Sofubi's Gym
. However, whenever I talk to him,
Spoiler:
he never mentions anything about Gimica
.

Does anyone know what to do now? Thank you for your help.

[Unknown]

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #106 on: September 17, 2021, 09:00:09 pm »
Right, the original Japanese didn't clarify this so I didn't change it.  I'll explain below and note a few other things if you're after 100%.

Spoiler:
You need to beat the game first, then load clear data, then you can fight a few more people in Gimica.  You're right about the next person.

Also:
 * Have you found the two other faces for Jean Ludwig in the Sunken Ship?
 * Have you listened to all the songs on the fixed TV?
 * Do you know what happens if you rescue Poochy while you have 99 binkies?
 * Have you obtained Lightspeed rank in SneaKar?
 * Have you gone back to Mo and completed his special course?
 * Have you gotten max score on Scream Surfing?
 * Have you found all the hidden items in the Oystown sewers?
 * Did you make the pot maniac in Mayonen the happiest pot maniac in the world (requires doing some inside Gimmick Palace first)?
 * Did you get all the items, both upwards and downwards, for climbing the ropes without getting hit by eyeballs?

Also, for those watching this topic - I released an updated version of the patch, including the dialog box speed change, yesterday.  There's also a few minor corrections.  Saves are of course fully compatible.

-[Unknown]

Mattiac

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #107 on: September 18, 2021, 10:16:16 am »
Unknown-san, what did you decide regarding the heated debate about a female/tomboy or male/trans (all good)?
Please translate Lady Stalker for SNES!

TomatoAdventure_Fan

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #108 on: September 18, 2021, 11:18:45 am »
Sounds like there's a lot more things for me to do.

I have already heard about some of these but some are completely new to me.

Spoiler:
Unfortunately, I already rescued Poochy and I didn't have 99 binkies. I'm guessing I would need to start over to see that.

Is there any sort of reward for doing literally everything in the game?
Spoiler:
Or is the reward getting to see rare stuff through the side quests?

Thank you for your help

[Unknown]

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #109 on: September 18, 2021, 11:44:45 am »
The v1.1.0 release contains a change to that text.  Based on the feedback here, I kept it more literal than the earlier proposed change.  Again, thanks everyone for the passionate feedback.  I read and considered it all in making the change.

But not really looking to have a large discussion for each and every individual NPC line of dialog here.  If you'd like to see the update, I'd encourage you to play the game with the latest version of the patch.

That said, if anyone sees a line of text with a typo, glitch, or where the meaning for a 2021 English speaker significantly departs from what a 2002 Japanese speaker would've understood, please do report it.

-[Unknown]

Mattiac

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #110 on: September 18, 2021, 04:16:16 pm »
Unknown-san, that sounds good! Thanks again!
Please translate Lady Stalker for SNES!

[Unknown]

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Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2021, 06:21:13 pm »
Spoiler:
Unfortunately, I already rescued Poochy and I didn't have 99 binkies. I'm guessing I would need to start over to see that.

Well, it's a very small thing.  Actually, I'd say it's just nice they thought of the scenario.
Spoiler:
Similar different dialog is seen for Lewy in Soy City, the Hawker Kids, or the Quiz Kid if you're at 99 binkies during certain interactions.  It's not substantially different, but if you really want to see every dialog (as I did) there's a lot of scenarios.

I also forgot, there's text in a lot of cases when you're too poor for things (like paying for the hint from Rellek in the ocean.)  But these are all fairly boring.

Is there any sort of reward for doing literally everything in the game?
Spoiler:
Or is the reward getting to see rare stuff through the side quests?

Just the items you get, generally.  Finishing Gimica nets you a bit of dialog.  You do get a little something for using and mastering all the Gimmicks at the end.
Spoiler:
Also - as far as I know, being able to fight the next players is the only reward for clear data.

-[Unknown]