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Author Topic: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project  (Read 9568 times)

91-MPH

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2020, 09:24:13 pm »
I do not know, what the money was called in Seiken Densetsu 2, but in future games the currency is called Lucre.
Neither do I know, if it is a localised name or of the japanese original.

The first time I've noticed the word Lucre used in a localized Mana game, was from the recent Trials of Mana Remake.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2020, 11:41:31 am »
While Queue is working on screenshots, I wanted to say something about names because our approach is different than the norm.

I feel that translating names is a different problem than translating the text around them.  Oftentimes, names were localized just fine the first time around, and I don't see the name to retranslate them just for the sake of retranslating them.  I don't have a clean comparison handy for the Japanese vs. Woolsey vs. more literal translation, but for the most part, Woolsey did a fine job relocalizing the weapon, armor, magic, monster and item names.  Significant deviations are not common, and when they are, there seemed to be a good reason. 

With regards to character names, I have a similar philosophy.  For example, Dyluck's name translates as Dirac, but Dyluck is not a bad realization.  Jema is usually spelled Gemma in later games, but the former is fine for our purpose.  Our names for Meria and Morie are Merillat and Moliere (the original script implies a French influence which makes sense as Tasnica is a Republic) as opposed to Mereria and Morieru.  Getting back to monsters for a sec, Tropicallo is a stronger name than the translation of the original, Bud (Bado is another possibility). 

The most significant ones to mention are the Mana Sword, the Mana Beast, and the Palaces.  In Japanese, the Mana Sword was the Holy Sword, and Seiken Densetsu is literally, "Legend of the Holy Sword."  The Mana Beast was the Godbeast.  But we are strongly inclined to stick with Mana Sword and Mana Beast because these sound more distinguished in English than the literal translations.  Furthermore, the surrounding text makes it very clear that the Mana Sword is holy (purified in holy water).  The Mana Sword starts out as a "rusted holy sword" in Japanese and when fully upgraded becomes mananoken, or Mana Sword.  In other words, just because you call it a Mana Sword, doesn't mean it's not holy too.

For Palaces, using the Water Palace as an example, it can also be translated as Water Temple or Water Shrine.  But Water Palace is not bad in and of itself, especially when there's a real life counterpart (Jal Mahal).     

Some may feel this is inconsistent and even arbitrary.  Why bother if you're keeping most of the original names?  I'm not the only one who feels this way though.  Our translation group, all except one having done this thing before, says things like, "just stick with Woolsey here", "this is not literal but I like Woolsey better", etc.  We are far more concerned about getting nuances and details out of the original script than exhaustively retranslating names.  This is not a purist approach, but one that I am confident will work well.

Vanya

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2020, 10:16:34 pm »
Besides, if anyone is really bothered by such things, they can always make those specific changes themselves. I include myself since I personally prefer a much more literal approach to names regardless of nostalgia to a great degree.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2020, 01:26:49 am »
Besides, if anyone is really bothered by such things, they can always make those specific changes themselves. I include myself since I personally prefer a much more literal approach to names regardless of nostalgia to a great degree.

One thing that is likely to happen is a patch of just the retranslation that's serving the basis for our script.  If we release that, then yes, we'd leave all names as they were.

Piotyr

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2020, 07:39:06 am »
I am currently loving the patches that let you pick and choose what you want out of it. Maybe you can do that too since you are working with someone whose done one :).

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2020, 04:55:25 am »
I have forgotten to ask the following. Does the retranslation use VWF?

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2020, 05:59:48 am »
I have forgotten to ask the following. Does the retranslation use VWF?

As stated in the description, it uses the original font.  The biggest argument against this route is that sentences have to be broken up across boxes, but even if we used the VWF, we'd have the same problem.

That being said, offering that as an alternative would probably not be much extra work.  The problem is I have no way of previewing how the VWF would look.  Since the original font is monospaced, it makes it extremely easy to know how it will show up in the game.



@Queue, this is my proposal for the prologue.  Taosenai and myself have not discussed this text yet, so it may change slightly.

GraphicSAP CountSAPSAP SizeSNES CountSNESSNES Size
Blank ScreenBox #1In Ancient times...19
Box #2a civilization that evolved through the power of Mana...56
Box #3...had prospered across the planet.35
Box #4Before long, humans began to use the power of Mana in war...60
Box #5...and this led to the creation of a huge battleship...55
Box #6...the Mana Fortress...23Box #1Using the power of Mana, a civilization had grown strong.57
Mana Fortress ExteriorBox #7Its enormous power touched the anger of the gods...51Box #2In time, Mana was used to create the ultimate weapon: the Mana Fortress.72
Box #8...and the Mana Beast was sent to the Earth.44
Mana Fortress InteriorBox #9A furious battle ensued and wrapped the world in fire and poison.65Box #3This angered the gods.  They sent their beasts to destroy the Fortress...73
Box #10Mana was lost on the planet.28
Scorched EarthBox #11Then, a hero came with the Mana Sword, and the Fortress fell.  63Box #4A violent war rocked the world, and Mana seemed to disappear...63
Mana TreeBox #12The Mana Beast vanished from the face of the Earth.51Box #5Before all was lost, a hero with the Mana Sword smashed the fortress.69
Box #13The civilization was destroyed in the war...44
Box #14...but once again, there was peace in the world.48Box #6Though the civilization had been destroyed, the world was peaceful again.73
Blank ScreenBox #15But time flows like a river...30Box #7 But time flows like a river...30
Box #16...and history repeats...25Box #8...and history repeats.23

The prologue starts against a blank screen in the SNES.  But instead of one box, we'll have six in the SAP.  From there, I spaced out the SAP's boxes to read in the closest amount of time to the SNES script.  Even though some (all?) boxes may have to go faster, there's less text to read overall.

The images don't line up as well, but they're generic enough that this may still work.  I don't know how else to do this without some wild redesign of the prologue sequence. 

justin3009

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2020, 06:37:26 am »
Implementing a VWF isn't too bad, I did it ages ago as a test that went unreleased.

It's pretty possible to code it so things auto line break when it hits a certain amount of pixels but it'd have to check the word size to be safe. Only problem there is if there's something you want to emphasize via line break you'd have to do it manually.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2020, 01:55:49 pm »
justin3009, emphasis via line break and textbox break is the exact issue. It's much harder to plan without being able to format the text as it would appear in game. Since SAP's text is being managed via a Google Docs spreadsheet, specialized fonts to do so aren't an option.

Implementation isn't a factor. My current plan is to offer VWF display as an option (with monospaced vanilla as the default) but where it will have exactly the same line breaks as when monospaced. We'll see how it goes when things progress that far.



ManaRedux, I'll get that prototyped and then we can see how the timing works out.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2020, 06:55:08 pm »
ManaRedux, I'll get that prototyped and then we can see how the timing works out.

Nicely done!!  For some reason the "heartbeat" cut out on my ROM when "In the Dead of Night" starts. 

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2020, 08:56:26 pm »
Good catch, have already made the change to fix that.

Explanation: The heartbeat is a looping sound effect. Starting a music track stops any currently playing looping sounds. Normally, the prologue music track starts then immediately is followed by the heartbeat loop being started. Since the timing changes put the music start one scene later, it was stopping said heartbeat. The easy fix is to just start the heartbeat up again after starting the prologue music.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2020, 09:32:13 pm »
One of the things that the English translation (and even the original Japanese) did not make clear is that after you seal the seven Seeds before the Tree Palace, the Empire went out and unsealed them again.  They did this in record time, because while you're in Tasnica, the Emperor travels to the continent after this takes place.  The first two translations did not make this clear:

Quote
Woolsey:What's the Emperor up to?   
2018 Remake:The Emperor's troops are on the move. What's the emperor up to?
Japanese:It's said that the Imperial Emperor has left his castle. Is he finally making his move?

So basically, your entire quest is in vain once you reach the Emperor there.  This is what he says in Japanese:

Quote
If the seals on the Temples throughout the world are dissolved, what has until now been called the "sunken" Ancient continent will rise to the surface!  Already, the Seals on the Temples throughout the world have been undone. The last one is here. With this, the Mana Fortress will be resurrected!

Picard at the Lighthouse says that the Tree Palace is a "switch" that will float the sunken continent.  Also, in Tasnica:

Quote
It's said that a legendary Ancient continent is submerged at the bottom of the sea beneath the coral reef.
The Empire's aim is to cause it to surface, it would seem. The Seeds in the Temples in each land act as a seal on that.

From this, we conclude that the purpose of sealing the Mana Seeds is to keep the continent submerged.  After this has been done, one must be at the Tree Palace to flip the final "switch."  However, we also know from Luka that when the Mana Seeds and the Mana Sword resonate, the Sword gains power. 

Woolsey uses the word "seal" when Randi first goes to the Water Palace, but this is not present in the Japanese:

Quote
Now, hold up the Holy Sword to the Mana Seed atop the altar...The Mana Seed and the Holy Sword resonated!

But after Geshtar breaks the seal on the Water Seed, Luka says:

Quote
Now, use the Holy Sword to once again seal the Water Seed!

However, somewhat confusingly, she also says this at the end:

Quote
If the seals on the Mana Seeds are all dissolved before you can revive the Mana Sword, I don't know that we'd be able to do anything...

I have a hard time reconciling the previous two lines.  On one hand, you seal each Seed with the Mana Sword, but on the other, they can be dissolved with no hope of you reviving them.

So I guess that the Mana Seeds basically exist to check the Fortress.  The more the Sword resonates with them, the more powerful it becomes, and the more likely the Fortress will be smashed again.  Also, they are essentially an eight prong lock on the sunken continent.  There's also a pagan nature religion angle as each Seed represents an element in a Temple. 

After the Emperor melts the final Seed, Jema says something like this:

Quote
Randi! Are you OK? Somehow, we managed to escape. In the end, I was unable to stop the revival of the Mana Fortress. And the Holy Sword is still not...

The Godbeast of Mana should appear any moment now. If the firepower of the Fortress clashes with the Godbeast, the world will be brought to ruin once again... 

At the edge of the world, there is a forbidden place known as the, "Mana Holy Land."  Normally, it is enveloped in clouds, and it isn't possible to enter from the sky. However, things are different now.  The animating power of the Fortress is Mana energy. The Mana Fortress is stealing away the last of the little remaining Mana power!
 Is it possible that the clouds concealing the Holy Land, which is protected by Mana, may have disappeared!?

The Mana Seeds are but a small part of the Mana Tree...
The power of the Holy Sword has been restored this far by resonating with the seeds.  If you cause the sword to resonate with the Mana Tree itself, it's possible that it will be resurrected into its complete form!

I think what Jema's saying is that it doesn't matter that the Empire dissolved every Seed.  By going to the Holy Land, you can recharge the Sword directly at the Mana Tree and gain full power to take on the Fortress.  I don't know the mechanics of the game, but I don't believe there's any mathematical change in the Sword's power despite this happening.  However, restoring the Sword by having it resonating with the Seeds may still be a different problem than sealing them.

Even after a close look at the script, it is still not clear what the state of each Seed was in the beginning.  Obviously, some were sealed, some weren't, or it would have been a very short game.

The reason I bring all this up is that these points need clarification in the script.  If I missed something, I'm very interested. 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 05:13:16 am by ManaRedux »

FuSoYa

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2020, 03:47:07 am »
I don't know the mechanics of the game, but I don't believe there's any mathematical change in the Sword's power despite this happening.  However, restoring the Sword by having it resonating with the Seeds may still be a different problem than sealing them.

As far as the SNES game mechanics go, each mana seed you get increases the damage output of all your weapons by increasing a hidden counter.  Though when all the seeds get unsealed and your mana power on the status screen drops to 0, they do not reduce the counter to weaken your weapons.

I sometimes wonder if they had considered doing that, but perhaps they decided that reducing your weapon damage by about 40% or so before throwing you into pure land would maybe be a bit too cruel.

In any case, there would be a slight increase in weapon damage after the Mana Tree scene simply because the 8th seed gets revived along with the rest.  Before that point the counter is sitting at 7, and it gets set to 8 after.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2020, 02:22:53 am »
As far as the SNES game mechanics go, each mana seed you get increases the damage output of all your weapons by increasing a hidden counter.  Though when all the seeds get unsealed and your mana power on the status screen drops to 0, they do not reduce the counter to weaken your weapons.

I sometimes wonder if they had considered doing that, but perhaps they decided that reducing your weapon damage by about 40% or so before throwing you into pure land would maybe be a bit too cruel.

In any case, there would be a slight increase in weapon damage after the Mana Tree scene simply because the 8th seed gets revived along with the rest.  Before that point the counter is sitting at 7, and it gets set to 8 after.

That is interesting, and may support my theory that powering the Sword and sealing the Seed are both the result of the same action.

Btw, FuSoYa, I'd be honored if you wanted to read over the new script. 

July 01, 2020, 07:23:59 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
@Queue, since you're saving space in your inbox, I'll give you the massive update here:

1)The huge news is that Secret of Mana is finally retranslated, in full, as of Sunday.  Our script takes up about 80% more space than the SNES script without any new content.  The first thing folks will notice is how much longer it takes to get through the game simply due to reading.  Once Taosenai and myself have a chance to talk about some minor issues, the second draft will be complete, with future drafts constructed mostly after external feedback. 

2)Text formatting---I will go through and format choices one per line as you indicated. 

I have indicated line breaks with \, and it will probably require a full playthrough (or can we write a program to preview a given box?) to catch discrepancies between the way Google Sheets formats texts with extra space and how it appears in the game.  Also of concern are times where the character names are in the text box.  Woolsey seems to have avoided this for the most part, because I'd imagine that the different lengths would affect how the text is aligned.   

On my first test run, I actually got caught in an infinite loop at the Water Palace as the game could not parse one of the choices, which had migrated outside the box due to space.  (Strangely, not even a walk through walls code got me out of it.  The flag to take you out of the Palace is strangely deactivated even though there's no way to get to the door.) 

At this point, there are so many differences between the SAP, Woolsey, and the original Japanese as far as where text starts and stops, that more manual input will be needed than originally expected.  (I'm fine with that)

3)I will likely have to write a separate script for the VWF.  Even though we can use the same line breaks, there are so many ellipses with the original font that it wouldn't show up right.  Furthermore, some text has been broken across boxes for dramatic purposes and I'd like to retain that with the VWF.  As of now, I have not located a way to preview this text.

4)Tentative name for the patch---Secret of Mana: Reborn.

5)I went ahead and took a look at the menu text, names, and event messages.  The menu text was cut to bare bones in the SNES version as you can imagine.  If we accommodate the translation, we'd have to use a different font, move the text around the screen, or widen the box. 

It's a similar story with names and event messages.  I have not gone over these with Taosenai yet, but once they're finalized, we can decide what to do.  The menu text is the least of my concerns.  I'm sure that existing hacks just use the VWF, but I don't think this was the case with menu text, and obviously, we'd like to use the original font throughout when that option is chosen.

6)Did you receive the proposal for Phase 3?  There will be more things coming from the Japanese guides, but that will give me an idea of what we can do as far as new stuff.

7)Regarding my message about box memory size, I don't know how there could be possibly be 85 bytes in the box, as I demonstrated in the one below that there can be a maximum of 84.  The spreadsheet column width was set so that a maxmimum of 84 bytes can be entered, while also taking the length of individual words into account. 

8)I'd like to get the chainsaw back for the second Scorpion Army boss, otherwise, it's not much of a, "death machine."  I think Timbo did this in his hack? 

9)While deciding whether to stick with GP or switch to Luc, would it be an issue having the extra letter anywhere GP is currently displayed? 

10)I decided on what to do about the sprite's gender: https://manaredux.blogspot.com/2020/06/what-is-popoie.html, and I ironed out what I'm going do about post #31.  Those were our two biggest translation issues.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 07:23:59 am by ManaRedux »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2020, 01:50:46 am »
1) Yay!



2) The integration script currently understands \ and | characters, which force a newline, and a new paragraph (textbox), respectively. It also accepts _ (underscores) for forced literal spaces (like if you want a lot of leading spaces to center some text), otherwise it generally compacts multiple subsequent spaces down to 1. These are meant for stylistic line breaks, so I don't expect you'll actually need many.

If some text is formatting unexpectedly, like a new speaker not getting a new textbox, that's a bug in the integration script (probably) that should get resolved (I just need to know about it to be able to resolve it). In general, it's on me to work out remaining kinks that prevent the integration script from matching the Google Docs text, since Google Docs, with the monospaced cells and intentional cell width, should be counting characters accurately and so matching it should be both possible and reasonable.

Player names won't be a problem (as long as the SAP text has them padded to 6 characters). All newlines in the SAP game data are explicit, none occur due to character overflow for a line (unlike vanilla). Described another way, in SAP I disable word wrap (which vanilla used to save a few dozen bytes) and every line requires an intentional newline character; the integration script counts characters and places these explicit newlines.

I haven't inspected the issue that got you stuck, but based on where you described it happening, I'd expect it's the combination of incomplete text choice parsing plus a rather complex event chain. Getting the text choices formatted and parse-able (and the integration script updated to not try and skip the currently un-parse-able choices) will hopefully resolve it, but I'll also check it out specifically.



3) Again, word wrap is currently off, so if combined with a VWF as-is, you'd have the same linebreaks and textboxes, you'd just have a fair bit more empty space on the right in every textbox. Obviously this isn't the visually desired result, and wastes part of the purpose of a VWF, but ellipses would still end and begin textboxes. A visual example:
Monospaced:
Code: [Select]
Just yesterday, one of our
citizens...
Code: [Select]
...saw a white dragon and a
giant snake fighting in the
northern cave!
VWF:
Quote
Just yesterday, one of our
citizens...
Quote
...saw a white dragon and a
giant snake fighting in the
northern cave!
The line breaks occur at the same spots, the VWF text is just scrunched to the left. In this specific example, I'm not sure anything would even be changed unless a drastically narrower font is used for the VWF.

It will take a fairly different parsing scheme (counting pixels instead of characters) or tons of manual human labor (disable the integration script placing newlines and having them all hand-placed) AND a re-write to move ellipses to make good use of a VWF.

I still don't have any options for previewing VWF text layout either.



4) The naming is your call; I basically wouldn't revolt unless you picked something heinous. I'm honestly not sure my first reaction to "Reborn" is to think "Retranslation" but I don't dislike it.



5) Menus (like, character naming, stats screen, ACT, controller settings; any of the full screen menus with the scrolling tree background) actually use the same font as the rest of the game, just horizontally compressed (not technically, but the details don't matter) so they can fit twice as many characters, and without a black border (which is what makes them look so different). Like the rest of the game though, the text is monospaced, tile-aligned, and even the VWF Edition patch doesn't make the menus VWF-capable.

I do agree that that's lower priority though.

Item and equipment names have some non-obvious length limits, above which they break various UIs in varying ways (the weapon upgrade when forging at Watts, for example). I don't remember them off the top of my head.



6) It took a moment to realize what you meant regarding a proposal. I had not, but I have now. I'll read it and get back to you. I've read it, see the edit at the end of this post.



7) The text "eats" a space when it wraps down a line, so while you get 28 characters per line, edge to edge, the space between line 1 and 2, and the space between line 2 and 3 are effectively free, yet still count for the used byte count (so 86 maximum, 28+1+28+1+28).



8) I restored chainsaw Kettle Kin; Timbo asked to use it in Relocalized (or I offered it? I don't remember anymore). Of course it can be in SAP too.



9) Some of the places it shows GP, 2 characters is the maximum barring significant reprogramming. A single letter (e.g. L) is the most reasonable replacement in my opinion; a custom glyph to act as a currency symbol isn't an impossible request, though if you do want to go that route I'd need to look over the font and actually set out a plan to make it work.



10) That was a good read and I really like what you ultimately decided. Not going with an all or nothing approach is probably my favorite way I've seen anyone answer that question.

To add to your anecdotes, the first time I played SoM, I named the sprite after my mom because he had a hairdo like she'd had when I was a kid (big and puffy, it was an unfortunate decade for style). I generally thought of him as a mischievous boy after having actually played through, though.




Regarding Phase 3 Proposals:

Module #1 - completely doable, and honestly should be quite easy... I'm having to restrain myself from just setting it up and instead using this time to finish the comparison screenshots -_-

Module #2 - more difficult than #1: I need to replace a door with an event trigger, and pick an event flag to keep track of the new event having been seen once; alternatively, if the normal event forces you outside (rather than you leaving yourself), it can simply be a continuation of the normal event which would avoid any of that

Module #3 - event-wise this isn't too tough, but adding the new NPC to that room may be difficult (it may not be, it depends on what is available to be relocated)

Module #4 - should be possible; the animations will probably just be a lot of trial and error

Module #5 - like #2, it depends on if you want the player to walk the characters outside to trigger this event, or if it can be part of the normal event and just forces the characters outside to show the new content

Module #6 - a lot of possible options; adding NPCs outright is tough, they pretty much always need to be stolen from some other map. Northtown outdoors is already at the NPC limit of 9, so if you wanted them outdoors, they'd have to replace existing NPCs. if indoors, what might make sense is for existing resistance members to say the new lines at certain points in the game, and then their normal lines at a different time. I'll talk about the door after this list

Module #7 - should be easy; hard part will be picking an event flag to keep track of if you've already seen the line

Module #8 - as mentioned before, chainsaw Kettle Kin was my doing, so can already consider this as done; it's worth noting that I'm 99% sure this wasn't some act of censorship, but part of the messy effort to make space in the ROM (and most, if not all, space-making efforts were actually unnecessary, but hindsight is 20/20)



The infamous door can be made usable, but understand that setting it up would be more work than all the other event requests listed above put together:
it requires
- reshaping the map so it's reachable
- replacing it with a door that has a trigger tile (it's currently no different than a wall)
- replacing the unwalkable floor to its right
- setting up door data
- wedging the new door into that map's trigger list
- fixing up the trigger list for another map that uses the same map piece
- picking an unused room (probably in one of the northtown interiors) to have the door send you to
- moving 1 or more NPCs to the new room
- modifying events to use the new text

All of the map editing steps listed there are extremely labor intensive. It's something I'm interested in trying to pull off, but this would definitely be the last of the proposed ideas I'd work on.




Here's a ZIP of all comparison screenshots for text you highlighted. These aren't sorted, stitched together, etc. they're just straight from the three variations. The Shade text is a slightly older version of his text.
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_SAP_Screenshots_Unsorted.zip
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:18:49 pm by Queue »

nosynose

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2020, 02:40:35 am »
@manaredux
Awesome progression! Can't wait to play SoM with this!
Regarding the project new name, I suggest 'Rebirth' instead of 'Reborn', which sounds better to me, or 'SAPling' (which refers to the initial project name, the new take on the translation, and also to the mana tree)

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2020, 03:02:13 pm »
I recommend to speak with Moppo on Discord, there are many things he and the others discovered.
Also there are many QoL patches around, which he combined with the randomiser.

But in a nutshell, if you join hands with him, things will be even more smooth as a end result.

As for the Mana Seeds increasing your strenght, that is a global event, which empowers the enemies' attack stat as well.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2020, 07:04:10 pm »
- replacing it with a door that has a trigger tile (it's currently no different than a wall)
- replacing the unwalkable floor to its right

I think that removing, or not including whatever room was intended was an absolute last minute change, along with the animated overhead map object.  The fact that there are no collision tiles in front of the door, but there are to the right of it, leads me to believe that it had more to do with that than the door itself:



It's analogous to an area in Tasnica:



where it seems like you can walk under a railing, but it's blocked with random objects.  I think this was a feature that they couldn't get to work, or ran out of time for.  With the space to the right of the door already programmed, they thought they could include the room and just have collision tiles there so you don't think you could walk under the railing, but then for whatever reason, just took out the room altogether.  I found it extremely amusing that they left this in for the remake. 

If we did put a room there, the way to reach it would be to remove the collision tile on the stairs.  IIRC, you can exit the area, but not enter from the stairwell.  However, if it had made it into the final game, I'm sure you would have walked from underneath the railing. 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 08:32:37 am by ManaRedux »

FuSoYa

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2020, 02:29:46 am »
Btw, FuSoYa, I'd be honored if you wanted to read over the new script.

Er, sure.  Probably not much I can offer in the way of input, but I am a bit curious to see what you've done with it.  I've actually come across your Mana blog site before and always found it an interesting read...  have always had a bit of a soft spot for Secret of Mana.   :)

artflue

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Re: Secret of Mana: Script Augmentation Project
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2020, 08:06:35 am »
Wow! A -lot- of thought went into adding back the lore into the Augmented script. This one I'm genuinely looking forward to reading.


Quote
I have a hard time reconciling the previous two lines.  On one hand, you seal each Seed with the Mana Sword, but on the other, they can be dissolved with no hope of you reviving them.

My memory of game 1 and 2 script details is flaky. But it sounds like the Empire and the Mana protectors are all acting on theory. No one has tried or done it, just doing actions from alleged religion, philosophy, mythology about the Hidden Land and the Seeds. It's been way too long (?) between 1 and 2 so everything is kinda forgotten and muddied up down the verbal lore inheritance.

Only towards the end do both sides get a grasp and figure out the important pieces of the grand puzzle. Desperation for one side and knowledge / power by the other.

And maybe it depends on the user. The good users want to protect, preserve the life in the Seed by sealing and limiting access. The bad users want to absorb the Seeds dry and leave nothing but it to wither until nature generates new Seeds to correct the unbalance.