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Author Topic: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized  (Read 7508 times)

BlazeHeatnix

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A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« on: May 17, 2020, 09:42:15 pm »
Greetings. My name is BlazeHeatnix, and I am not a romhacker. I don't know the first damned thing about romhacking. I don't know my way around a hex editor, and tend to rely on editors other people have made to get a job done.

So why am I here? Well, I've noticed that nobody has really bothered to retranslate Zelda 3. The general consensus seemed to be that the translation is good enough and that you understand the story well enough, or that Zelda's narrative wasn't worth the effort because "nobody really cares". I wasn't quite in agreement: there are more than a few details in the game that are either left out of the English release, inconsistent with what we know from later Zelda games, or just plain wrong. Not only that, but Z3's script is just plain sloppy in a few areas and indicative of early 90s half-baked translation efforts. Even the GBA port does not fix most of its flaws. So, I made it my mission to rewrite the game's script to be, well, better. My main goal with this hack was to make things more consistent with A Link Between Worlds, to add more flavor where it helps, and cut down on wordiness and overly verbose language.

As the title may suggest, I used the Redux hack by ShadowOne333 as a base. All features, including the new UI, are included. So for now, this is an addendum hack. This is because I originally planned to give this hack to a friend as we played the Zelda series together. However, I don't intend to release V1.0 with the Redux features included.

Looking for testers here. Any questions, concerns, bug reports, or suggestions are accepted. Keep in mind that the intro narration is unfinished, the Triforce speech is untested, and none of the menu item names have been changed yet.


Notes:
-In the original script, Hylians are said to be an ancient race that are mostly gone save for Link and Zelda. This has been retconned with later games: if you have pointed ears, you are a Hylian. By that logic, Hylians are still around in both this game and ALBW. Instead, I've made it so only the language is long gone, and that Hylians were only more prosperous in ancient times, not that they're gone.
-Zelda describes the priest in the Sanctuary as "the pastor", and later "Father". Only in the credits is he called "The Loyal Priest". I didn't like Zelda referring to him as "the old man" as that seems too impersonal for her, and downplays his religious role.
-Agahnim is still referenced in ALBW as being a wizard, not a priest. In the intro, I've written that he was a wizard AND a priest. I'm debating on changing all instances of "priest" back to "wizard", however, to avoid confusion between him and the Sanctuary priest.
-"Aginah" has been renamed to "Azinar".
-"Book of Mudora" is now "Mudora's Tome". This communicates better that Mudora is the author, and that they are his scholarly writings.
-"Magic Cape" is now "Magic Mantle". That's what it is. It's not a cape.
-"Bug-Catching Net" is now just "Bug Net".
-"Cane of Byrna" is now "Cane of Byra".
-"Pond of Happiness" is now "Spring of Good Fortune".
-"Skeleton Forest" is now "Skull Woods". This was obviously an oversight anyway.
-"Village of Outcasts" is now "Thieves' Town", as in ALBW.
-"Swamp of Evil" is now "Misery Mire" as in ALBW. Plus, there is already a "Swamp Palace" in the Dark World counterpart of the "Great Swamp". That's enough swamps.
-"Desert of Mystery" is now "Desert of Doubt". This not only ties into the Four Swords Adventures desert of the same name, but has alliteration in common with "Misery Mire".
-A few cues have been taken from the GBA port. For example, the first guard you talk to outside your house encourages you to keep talking for tutorial hints. In the original, only the last guard said that.
-I plan on extending the intro to include more details to the legend, as the GBA port added, but the intro is on a timer, and I need to figure out how to extend the timer first.
-All male-specific pronouns have been removed. All references to Link and the "Hero" are now gender-neutral. This wasn't done for political reasons; compared to the English release, only two or three throwaway lines of dialog in the Japanese version specifically refer to Link as male. This was clearly intentional on Nintendo's part, so I've done what I can to complete that.
-There's a CD-I Zelda reference somewhere. See if you can spot it!



Changelog:

V0.2.1
-Initial public release.





Quote
Credits:
A Link to the Past: Redux
    ShadowOne333

New localization:
    BlazeHeatnix

Translation:
    KWhazit

Lore consultant:
    Forgotten_Legend

Tools:
    ZScream Text Editor - Zarby89
    Hyrule Magic - Sephiroth3


Download V0.2.1: http://www.mediafire.com/file/9ak1d5yavup88ue/LTTP_RD-RL_V0.2.1.7z/file
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 01:44:15 am by BlazeHeatnix »

julayla

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 11:14:07 am »
So far I'm loving the idea. I mean with all the new things and retcons Nintendo's done over the years for the Zelda franchise, I think this redux/relocalization needs to be done.

RetroGameFan

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 12:14:37 pm »
So why am I here? Well, I've noticed that nobody has really bothered to retranslate Zelda 3. The general consensus seemed to be that the translation is good enough and that you understand the story well enough, or that Zelda's narrative wasn't worth the effort because "nobody really cares". I wasn't quite in agreement: there are more than a few details in the game that are either left out of the English release, inconsistent with what we know from later Zelda games, or just plain wrong. Not only that, but Z3's script is just plain sloppy in a few areas and indicative of early 90s half-baked translation efforts. Even the GBA port does not fix most of its flaws. So, I made it my mission to rewrite the game's script to be, well, better. My main goal with this hack was to make things more consistent with A Link Between Worlds, to add more flavor where it helps, and cut down on wordiness and overly verbose language.
It seems that people on this site like to refer to Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past as Zelda 3, like it's the sequel to Zelda II: The Adventure of Link. As far as I'm concerned, it's not. But I'm guessing people do that because it's the third installment in the Zelda series. On that note, we might as well refer to Link's Awakening for the Game Boy as Zelda 4.

ifightdragons

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 12:32:03 pm »
It seems that people on this site like to refer to Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past as Zelda 3, like it's the sequel to Zelda II: The Adventure of Link. As far as I'm concerned, it's not. But I'm guessing people do that because it's the third installment in the Zelda series. On that note, we might as well refer to Link's Awakening for the Game Boy as Zelda 4.

I see where you're coming from, and I agree. But to be fair, even Nintendo themselves refer to the game (and other games) in this manner, in internal documents and in other codenames.

Queue

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 01:52:13 pm »
Quote from: RetroGameFan
It seems that people on this site like to refer to Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past as Zelda 3.
As someone who lived the NES era, everyone referred to the games as Zelda (and generally Zelda 1 after the later entries came out), Zelda 2 and Zelda 3. Link's Awakening didn't gain full traction as Zelda 4, but some people did still call it as such. Next was Zelda 64; nobody called it Ocarina of Time until later.

Majora's Mask was the first Zelda game that actually got called by its subtitle consistently.

Referring to Zelda 3 and Zelda 64 as Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time is an anachronism.

RetroGameFan

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2020, 02:14:42 pm »
As someone who lived the NES era...
Do you think I didn't live during the "NES era"? Think again. I was born in '86, and by the way, I don't remember ever hearing the terms "Zelda 3" and "Zelda 64". ;)

Queue

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2020, 03:01:04 pm »
Quote from: RetroGameFan
Do you think I didn't live during the "NES era"?
I did think that, since back then, Zelda 3 and Zelda 64 were what anyone called them. It could be a regional thing, but I never once heard anyone call either by their subtitle until the late 90s.

Tomato

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2020, 03:08:13 pm »
"Zelda 3" was everywhere


Illuminasty

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2020, 03:16:01 pm »
I know "Zelda 3" was definitely commonly used in gaming press around that time in Europe as well. "Zelda 4" for LA not as much but you would find it often enough for it not to be weird either, it just didn't stick.

RetroGameFan

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2020, 05:40:36 pm »
@Tomato - Good find, though I must say a lot of it is unofficial, and despite that Nintendo did use "Zelda 3" in some aspects/areas, including former working titles, a lot of this was also promotional hype to get more and more people to buy the game, not that this was the sequel to Zelda II.

Nevertheless, I think I get the picture.

niuus

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2020, 04:59:10 am »
Do you think I didn't live during the "NES era"? Think again. I was born in '86, and by the way, I don't remember ever hearing the terms "Zelda 3" and "Zelda 64". ;)
What a weird place to grow on as a gamer. I heard it all the time. And i am from South America.

TRIFORCE89

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2020, 08:37:25 am »
Just throwing this here as a potential reference of source of inspiration. This YouTube video has a link in its description to someone's attempt at porting the GBA intro over to SNES (among other things) .

I like your idea overall, but I'm not yet sold on some of the changes.

I've only heard of the name "Azinar" before in the JP-EN text script compare back from the ZeldaLegends days. Not sure how I feel about it. If Minish Cap was being relocalized, it'd be like Vaati being changed to Gufuu. Kind of feeling the same way about Byrna => Byra.

Similarly, "Book of Mudora" is maybe just too engrained a name now. Book of Magic, Book of Sorcery, Book of Seals - Nintendo seems to follow that pattern in later games. "Book of Mudora", to me, already conveys that it is the writings (or transcriptions) of an author as "Book/Gospel of... whoever" might convey the same in say The Bible.

And if the Bug-Catching Net is now simply Bug Net? Is the Bug-Catching Kid in the credits now the Bug Kid?

Magic Mantle is good. Nice alliteration. All the location name changes are welcome as well.

RetroGameFan

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2020, 11:12:18 am »
What a weird place to grow on as a gamer. I heard it all the time. And i am from South America.
So you heard it all the time in the gaming world where you live. That's fine. But I don't think I grew on in a weird place in gaming. After all, A Link to the Past is an SNES game, and not an NES one like Zelda 1 and 2 were. Although I am aware that sequels can and have had numbers in their names on different consoles (i.e. Mario Party 2 compared to Mario Party 5, 6, and so on).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 11:30:01 am by RetroGameFan »

Vanya

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2020, 12:31:33 pm »
My girlfriend is in the same generation. Born in '85.
I wouldn't call it a wierd time, just a later one.

I'm from the more solidly 8-bit era myself. Born in '78.
I distinctly remember everyone in school referring to the first three Zeldas by number.

As 'Mato showed, the magazines definitely did it, but I can attest to it being done so in the school yards too.
And I attended 5 different schools during those years.

Plus it's just more convenient for casual conversation.

Anyway...

As for the thread topic.
It's a good option to have this script edit for people that want it.
Options are good.

Personally I prefer it when things adhere more to the original language as much as possible regardless of current trends in the series and traditional verbiage alike.
but that's just me.

BlazeHeatnix

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2020, 10:18:00 pm »
I like your idea overall, but I'm not yet sold on some of the changes.

I've only heard of the name "Azinar" before in the JP-EN text script compare back from the ZeldaLegends days. Not sure how I feel about it. If Minish Cap was being relocalized, it'd be like Vaati being changed to Gufuu. Kind of feeling the same way about Byrna => Byra.

Similarly, "Book of Mudora" is maybe just too engrained a name now. Book of Magic, Book of Sorcery, Book of Seals - Nintendo seems to follow that pattern in later games. "Book of Mudora", to me, already conveys that it is the writings (or transcriptions) of an author as "Book/Gospel of... whoever" might convey the same in say The Bible.

And if the Bug-Catching Net is now simply Bug Net? Is the Bug-Catching Kid in the credits now the Bug Kid?

Azinar and Byra were chosen for the following reasons: the first is that Aginah is one letter away from being an anagram of Agahnim, so I didn't like that possible connection/laziness. Byra was chosen over Byrna because pronouncing Byrna is like "burn-ah" so I wanted to avoid the impression it has anything to do with fire.

As for Book of Mudora, I understand where you're coming from and I want to avoid alienating people, but your comment is exactly the problem I have with the name: a Book of Spells is of course correct because it is a book full of spells. But saying "Book of Mudora" implies the book contains "Mudora" or something. Nothing in the game says anything about Mudora being the author. It even implies the Hylian language is called "Mudora". Believe it or not, I legitimately believed this as a kid.

Bug-Catching Net was changed to Bug Net because it fits more cleanly in the text-box and the old name was descriptive in a way that's totally unnecessary for the player. Plus, in Skyward Sword it's called Bug Net, so there is a slight connection with other games. I likely will change him to Bug Kid also.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 02:24:22 am by BlazeHeatnix »

moritasan2040

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2020, 11:30:34 pm »
I'm in favor of all your changes, BlazeHeatnix, except:

I agree with TRIFORCE89 that "Book of Mudora" seems to be the most appropriate translation. Not becuz of the "Book of Magic" or anything (since that is actually "Bible" in the original Japanese version), but becuz it lines up with the various books that make up the Tanakh and Bible. So long as you UNHIDE the religious references surrounding the book and its use, I think it will be possible for players to understand the reference, unlike the NoA translation. Plus, unlike "Book of Magic", "Book of Mudora" is a translation from the developers.

I strongly prefer Agahnim to be "a wizard disguised as a priest in order to trick the King". He's clearly got wizardly powers, so there's no tricking the King involved in him saying he's a wizard, but the point is that he lied in order to get close to the King. Right? I'm not misremembering? A priest is obviously safe, but a wizard not so much. Since A Link Between Worlds takes place after the events in A Link to the Past, the truth that Agahnim is actually a wizard would be out, so it actually WOULD make sense for him to be called that instead of "priest" in ALBW.

BlazeHeatnix

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2020, 02:12:10 am »
I'm in favor of all your changes, BlazeHeatnix, except:

I agree with TRIFORCE89 that "Book of Mudora" seems to be the most appropriate translation. Not becuz of the "Book of Magic" or anything (since that is actually "Bible" in the original Japanese version), but becuz it lines up with the various books that make up the Tanakh and Bible. So long as you UNHIDE the religious references surrounding the book and its use, I think it will be possible for players to understand the reference, unlike the NoA translation. Plus, unlike "Book of Magic", "Book of Mudora" is a translation from the developers.

It's not really a religious reference, or at least not one created with any kind of religious intent. The "Bible" is called that and has a cross on it because Japan loves random Christianity references that make no sense. There's nothing more significant to it than that. It's not the ACTUAL Bible. "Book of Magic" actually makes more sense, because it's more descriptive of the book's function.

The various books that make up the Bible, such as the Book of Genesis, are stories, laws, scriptures, etc. The Book of Mudora is not like that: it's a translation guide. The Ancient Sky Book in Twilight Princess is a blatant reference to the Book of Mudora, because it's the same thing. They're writings for translating an ancient language. While I sympathize with those that like the original name, and I am open to calling it "Mudora's Book" as a compromise, the argument that it has some resemblance to the books that make up the Bible holds no water.

ShadowOne333

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2020, 02:36:08 am »
Do "Book of Hylia" and call it a day :^}

AdamDravian

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2020, 04:07:23 am »
"Mudora's Tome" works for me.

And I second the notion that the Zelda 1 book wasn't intended to literally be the Bible. As Blaze said, many Japanese creators like to toss in random Christain imagery (and Jewish, like the Star of David) merely for "flavor". If you watch a lot of anime, you'll run into that kind of thing all the time.
Writer of the '80s-themed webcomic Satan Ninja 198X

Vanya

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Re: A Link to the Past: Redux-Relocalized
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2020, 12:32:08 pm »
As long as everyone is stating their opinions...

Book of Mudora: While I get wanting to stick to the traditional, I like to stick to the original as much as possible. The term used in the original "sho" is often translated as book, but it literally means writings. So literally the item is called Writings of Mudora or Mudora's Writings. So "Mudora's Tome" is an excellent choice here IMO.

Cane of Byra: While I don't agree with the rationale and view it more like a justification than anything TBH, I do agree with this change since it is exactly the way it was pronounced in Japanese. "baira no tsue" is a pretty easy translation given it was even written out in katakana. I would like to note that it could just as easily be called "Staff of Byra" and would like it better if space allows.

Azinar: I'm going to be brutally honest here. I apologize in advance if I come off harsh.
First off, Azinar sounds terrible to me. The distinction in Japanese between a foreign AR sound and an long AH sound is often hard to determine without knowing the source. That's how Azinar came into use in the first place. It's sloppy translation really. And I don't like that it sounds so different from Sahasrahla.
Second, I don't think there is anything lazy about Aginah and Agahnim seeming like they might have a connection. The original Japanese name for Agahnim is "Priest Agunim". Given that there are very distinct terms for wizards and priests in Japanese, it follows that there is a purposefully implied connection there. In other words he's supposed to sound like a sagely character like Aginah and Sahasrahla.
If anything what I think would make most sense is to change Aginah to Ajinah so the pronunciation is more clearly conveyed and change Agahnim to Ahgnim to be closer to the original and provide that distinction between the characters.

That's my two cents.