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Author Topic: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)  (Read 91874 times)

Ballz

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #200 on: November 17, 2021, 04:13:59 pm »
Afternoon roundup. A lot of screenshots in this one, so I'll hide it behind spoilers:
Spoiler:

This may be an original game/GBA translation issue. This soldier blocking Mt. Kolts in the Locke/Celes chapter gives the same line of dialogue as the soldiers at the front entrance to South Figaro. But here it makes no sense, since he’s not guarding a town. May need to see how other translations (original Woolsey, hairy_hen hack) handled this bit of dialogue...


Here's another case of something that MIGHT be a bug in the original FFVI and can't be fixed. Depending on the order and/or row of your party with the fight with Vargas, two characters may overlap on top of each other during the cut scene with Sabin’s arrival:

The above two screenshots show Terra on top of Locke if they go into battle arranged in that order. Below is another arrangement where Locke is on top of Terra...


I checked the livestream and Mato’s party order actually displayed just fine. I replicated his order and row arrangement and it also displayed normally on my end:

May need to test more to see if it’s only due to character rows or party order placement. Note that Mato had everyone in the back row while I had a mix-and-match between front and back rows.



Sabin's (messed up) line of dialogue right after the first Ultros fight scrolls by in a split second, making it unreadable, similar to the "Ahhh..." line of dialogue in the M-m-m-magic cut scene. I grabbed the messed-up screenshot from Mato's livestream. It went by so fast I don’t think anyone on the stream noticed it.


I also went back and replayed that M-m-m-magic scene previously reported using the latest patch. The second overflow line is now fixed, I think moving the word "there" to the following line did fix it. The first overflow line is still there, as is the split-second "Ahhhh..." line of dialogue at the end.


For my personal reference I've started a Google doc to allow me to keep track of my reports. It might be helpful for Mato and others, so here it is.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 04:19:31 pm by Ballz »
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Kain Stryder

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #201 on: November 17, 2021, 08:35:36 pm »
Thanks Mato, we'll look into it :)

Just happened to enter a stream and saw this, snapped a pic. Apparently with directional inputs for the battle menu, names bleed into the space as shown here. It was happening for each Moogle:


Raijinken

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #202 on: November 17, 2021, 10:33:17 pm »
Not Mato quality, but for what it's worth I already put a translation for FF5r out, though it uses all the RPGe stuff where applicable.

https://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/thread-4076.html

Oh wow! Didn't know one already existed, thanks!

KingMike

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #203 on: November 18, 2021, 01:17:16 am »
Thanks for the issue reports, I've fixed most of them when possible. The arrow glyphs not showing up is pretty embarrassing but is an easy fix, I just changed it to say Left/Right instead.

I'm sure I reminded you to check those after the stream! >:(
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Tomato

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #204 on: November 18, 2021, 03:32:16 am »
Dang, I was so happy when I got that alternate battle menu layout to work properly, too. I'll have to look into it in a few days when I can.

Thanks to everyone who's posting questions/issues/concerns and such!

Ballz

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #205 on: November 19, 2021, 12:17:01 am »
Glad to help, I hope I'm not making you feel overwhelmed or discouraged with my reports.

I replayed the Vargas scene a few more times and I think the overlapping characters are determined entirely on whether Terra and Locke are on different or the same row. In this screenshot I put them both in the front row and Edgar in the back row, and there is no overlap (although their arrangement is a little odd):



I can't for the life of me remember if the original FF3/FFVI games play out like this as well or if this is something that began happening in T-Edition. I'm guessing it's something that can't be fixed (not easily at least), but I just want to be as thorough with it as I can.  :P


One other general thing I've noticed is that the timing for text windows that close automatically mostly seems to be quicker than how long they're displayed in the vanilla English translation. I feel like the windows close a half second, maybe a full second too soon to easily read the dialogue. One instance I recall this happening is after defeating the Magitek armor and escaping Figaro castle, the scene where Edgar, Terra, and Locke talk while riding on their chocobos. Another is Cyan fighting the guards after the poisoning of Doma:

https://youtu.be/J2QXhAz9sL0

It feels like the windows close just a liiiiiitle bit too fast after he says "There will be no mercy for thee!" and "Who poisoned the river!?"

There are a couple of other auto-closing dialogue windows that happen a short time later when Cyan jumps in Magitek armor that imo are fine. I'm not familiar with how FFVI handles these dialogue boxes, but I'm hoping it's a simple control code that can be tweaked to lengthen or shorten the amount of time before these windows close on their own.
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Vanya

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #206 on: November 19, 2021, 02:54:00 pm »
Do any of the editors work with T-Edition as far as smaller teaks like lower-casing the default names, maybe some text editing, and equipment changes?

Kain Stryder

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #207 on: November 19, 2021, 05:34:24 pm »
No, you won't be able to use FF3UsME for example, as far as lowercase for the names, you can do so upon naming them in game.

November 20, 2021, 02:52:49 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Found a couple of errors:

1. Ribbon lists it protects from all ailments, it doesn't anymore. I just wrote "blocks most ailments". It blocks:
Toad
Blind
Poison
Petrify
Berserk
Confuse
Sleep
Silence

2. Phunbaba's Libra data says "weak to poison". The poison element has been changed to dark/darkness now, where the spell Poison deals water-elemental, and Bio deals dark-elemental, same with the Bio Blaster (your descriptions for those are fine, just giving examples). Just "weak to poison" needs to become "weak to dark/darkness" (however you'd prefer to write it :) )
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 03:49:31 am by Kain Stryder »

Tomato

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #208 on: November 20, 2021, 08:26:13 pm »
Yeah, the original Japanese description for the Ribbon says "all", but it somehow felt like an exaggerated claim when I did my testing. Your new info definitely raises the question of whether to alter the translation or not. I'm curious though, which statuses does the Ribbon not protect against?

As for the "weak to poison" stuff, given that there are actual poison spells, etc. I wasn't sure whether I should veer from what Tsushiy wrote or not. The difference between Poison and the new Darkness element has always really confused me, as it seems like it's not a complete 100% replacement? I dunno, it's a weird mess.

Anyway, if the Ribbon does indeed not block everything then it's absolutely for the player's benefit that I fix the Ribbon's description. But I can envision people seeing "weak to darkness" and not realizing that Bio, etc. spells are the spells to use, so I need to think about how to handle it. Maybe just saying "bio/darkness" in that weakness string would help?

Vanya

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #209 on: November 20, 2021, 09:02:38 pm »
OK. I figured editors might not work.
@Tomato: Do you happen to have the address(es) for the default names?

Raijinken

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #210 on: November 20, 2021, 09:14:47 pm »
Yeah, the original Japanese description for the Ribbon says "all", but it somehow felt like an exaggerated claim when I did my testing. Your new info definitely raises the question of whether to alter the translation or not. I'm curious though, which statuses does the Ribbon not protect against?

As for the "weak to poison" stuff, given that there are actual poison spells, etc. I wasn't sure whether I should veer from what Tsushiy wrote or not. The difference between Poison and the new Darkness element has always really confused me, as it seems like it's not a complete 100% replacement? I dunno, it's a weird mess.

Anyway, if the Ribbon does indeed not block everything then it's absolutely for the player's benefit that I fix the Ribbon's description. But I can envision people seeing "weak to darkness" and not realizing that Bio, etc. spells are the spells to use, so I need to think about how to handle it. Maybe just saying "bio/darkness" in that weakness string would help?

It doesn't protect against Zombie.

Kain Stryder

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #211 on: November 20, 2021, 10:21:22 pm »
Yeah, the original Japanese description for the Ribbon says "all", but it somehow felt like an exaggerated claim when I did my testing. Your new info definitely raises the question of whether to alter the translation or not. I'm curious though, which statuses does the Ribbon not protect against?

As for the "weak to poison" stuff, given that there are actual poison spells, etc. I wasn't sure whether I should veer from what Tsushiy wrote or not. The difference between Poison and the new Darkness element has always really confused me, as it seems like it's not a complete 100% replacement? I dunno, it's a weird mess.

Anyway, if the Ribbon does indeed not block everything then it's absolutely for the player's benefit that I fix the Ribbon's description. But I can envision people seeing "weak to darkness" and not realizing that Bio, etc. spells are the spells to use, so I need to think about how to handle it. Maybe just saying "bio/darkness" in that weakness string would help?

Tsushiy made some mistakes which is why, so editing the Ribbon I feel is ok. A couple other examples of his are one of Cyan's Bushido (I think Snow/Yukikaze or whatever you named it, sorry haven't seen that far yet) said in the description it did just wind damage+silence, but it does ice and wind+silence from the data. Just small errors like that on his part (and they've been fixed in 2.9.4.). Same with Sabin's Chakra saying Poison+Disease and it's only Poison.

Ribbon only guards the ones I listed, everything else will land.

As far as darkness goes, one moment, this is from Tsushiy's files:

Spoiler:
●属性名

    いくつかの属性名を変更。

        炎 → 火
        地 → 土
        毒 → 闇
        聖 → 光

He changed the element to darkness, so anything weak to poison now it'll just say dark. Poison itself is just an ailment otherwise the spell itself deals water-elemental damage+poison. The description for Bio says "deals medium-elemental darkness damage". "Weak to bio/darkness" would be fine, the other dark-elemental spells are Scourge, Catoblepas, Bad Breath, Acid Rain, Galaxy, Shadow Flare, Almagest, Bio Blaster, Poison Fog, and Poison Frog (your names might be different).

November 21, 2021, 09:34:35 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Found another couple of small errors; White Wind says "cures poison", it actually cures sleep.

And Wind Slash is being called Blizzard Fist here (Vargas did it as a normal attack and now Ashura did it, Mog's one Dance may do it also (as well as Guard Leader's rage) but haven't seen it yet. Something to check at least).
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 01:03:01 am by Kain Stryder »

Ballz

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #212 on: November 21, 2021, 10:11:16 pm »
Cyan seeing his wife and kid board the Phantom Train is another instance where the auto-scrolling text ends too quickly. I took a video of it and compared it frame-by-frame with your old LoL translation comparison stream.


This is the moment right after Cyan calls out to Elayne and Owain, and the text box is beginning to close. It's subtle but you'll notice in T-Edition Owain is still walking out while in FF3US he has just finished walking out. This isn't TOO big a difference, maybe a few extra frames for Cyan calling out to each of their names.


This is right when Elayne's goodbye disappears. Look at the train car's placement in relation to the clock; her dialogue is gone at the start of that train car in T-Edition, while in FF3US it disappears at the end of the car. An extra half-second or so goes a long way to easily reading her dialogue.


And here is Owain's goodbye. The text disappears right as the last train car passes the clock in FF3US, but it does that quite a bit earlier in T-Edition.

If we want to complicate things further, Owain's dialogue is noticeably longer in the GBA translation vs the SNES translation, while I'd say Elayne's is about the same, maybe a smidge shorter in GBA.  So mmmmaybe... only give an extra frame or two for Elayne's goodbye, and leave all the extra time for Owain? It might need a bit of trial and error experimentation.

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scarlet

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #213 on: November 22, 2021, 12:30:12 am »
Not sure if this is the place, but is anyone else having an issue where there's an invisible "do not pass" in South Figaro after patching to T-Edition?  Right where the guard normally "goes on break".  I am able to get around it if I put in a Walk Through Walls code, but it seems really odd that it would've shown up at all.  Did I patch the wrong rom or something?  Everything else seems to work fine.


Kain Stryder

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #214 on: November 22, 2021, 12:57:20 am »
Not sure if this is the place, but is anyone else having an issue where there's an invisible "do not pass" in South Figaro after patching to T-Edition?  Right where the guard normally "goes on break".  I am able to get around it if I put in a Walk Through Walls code, but it seems really odd that it would've shown up at all.  Did I patch the wrong rom or something?  Everything else seems to work fine.



I've seen numerous people playing this week and none of them running into this issue. It may be a bad patch job. Make sure you are using a 1.0 Japanese file and not a 1.1 Rev A (and not English, MUST be Japanese 1.0).

scarlet

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #215 on: November 22, 2021, 01:22:04 am »
@Kain thank you - driving me crazy.  That's probably it.

What's the easiest way for me to tell which version of the japanese rom I have? 

Edit: bizarrely enough, switching from Retroarch to OpenEmu (I'm on a Mac) fixed the issue.  Absolutely no idea what would have caused the problem!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 02:02:43 am by scarlet »

Ballz

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #216 on: November 22, 2021, 12:41:57 pm »

Edit: bizarrely enough, switching from Retroarch to OpenEmu (I'm on a Mac) fixed the issue.  Absolutely no idea what would have caused the problem!

Probably an emulator-specific issue.


Found a text overflow in Gau's rage tutorial:



Edit:

So stop me if you've heard this one, but here's a cut scene with some auto-text issues lol

https://youtu.be/t4RiyUf4dII

This one has a new wrinkle compared to previous ones.  Edgar's first line never auto closes so if you just leave it the characters exit the screen and it stays on that window. His second line "Don't go falling for him now..." does auto-close and again probably a half second or so more than I'd like it to. Celes' "love-starved twit" reply also does not auto-close, followed by Edgar's response which does close (again, too quickly).

The Celes/Terra interaction and the Cyan/Celes interaction that all come afterwards are fine and feature no auto-closing text windows, nor do they need them.

Edit 2: Once again using Mato's old LoL comparison video, I think I see what happened. In the original SNES version their entire interaction is across two auto-closing text windows (both in Japanese and in English). The GBA version, meanwhile, broke it into four auto-closing text windows so the dialogue would match the character portraits displayed (here's a random person's playthrough of the GBA version showing the scene).

So... I'm guessing it's not easily possible to break the two text windows into four windows on the SNES version. Would a possible compromise be editing down the dialogue so it's back to fitting in two windows total again? If you want to bring back a Woolsey-ism with "Cold as ice..." the second half could probably work in a single text window, although you might need to get creative to accurately convey what Edgar is saying in the first window, since Woolsey mistranslated that originally.



Next up:


The Iron Armor's description says it is made out of steel, not iron. If you're curious, the Iron Helmet's description is correct.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 09:16:16 pm by Ballz »
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Kain Stryder

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #217 on: November 24, 2021, 08:23:46 pm »
Found a small translation error, I'll spoil it due to it's very late-game:

Spoiler:
On the EX patch, Zeromus's attack, ワール, is called Wall, should be "Whirl". Graphic is an orange/brownish tornado.

Another one is just a typo, Zeromus's Big Bang is called Bing Bang by mistake lol

Edit: Noticed Silence/Mute wasn't showing "Miss" in EX and wondered if Tsushiy forgot to fix it when he updated 2.9.4. In any case, here's a patch to fix it (and for Mato, it's a simple fix if you want to just throw it on your patch, just double check if the main patch has it enabled, I only confirmed it's on EX).

https://www.mediafire.com/file/7mwiquq30jfzp9b/100220_ff6_t_silence_miss_fix.ips/file

Another small error with text mix up in EX, again spoilering:

Spoiler:
The Divine Might battle, the text for each warrior is mixed up and wrong. Here's the order they appear in and the correct quote (using my translation/what they say from FF11, I didn't grab your text, sorry, but it's mostly the same):

First enemy: "You shall be burned_ <d><NL>_by the rage that controls you_<d>"
Second enemy: "You shall be defeated_ <d><NL>_by the apathy that plagues you_<d>"
Third enemy: "You shall be overwhelmed_ <d><NL>_by the arrogance that disfigures you_<d>"
Fourth enemy: "You shall be consumed_ <d><NL>_by the cowardice that binds you_<d>"
Fifth enemy: "You shall be twisted_ <d><NL>_by the envy that drives you_<d>"

And some more possible errors (rather translation stuff, errors may be a wrong word to use, but read the spoiler) with another fight, again spoiler:

Spoiler:
The other FF11 battle with Kam'lanaut and Eald'narche, when Kam'lanaut is defeated and says "brother...why...?" text, Eald'narche's line doesn't make sense after. It kind of does but if you wanted to read into it more, here's a transcript from the actual fight in FF11: https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Return_to_Delkfutt%27s_Tower/Plot_Details

Also the woman talking to Eald'narche once you win is Yve'noile, a sort of holy woman (my memory is foggy on her as it's been years, but you can get context for it her dialogue/his reply here: https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Celestial_Nexus/Plot_Details

Him saying "sister..." seemed wrong to me: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Yve%27noile
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 01:41:11 am by Kain Stryder »

Tomato

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #218 on: November 25, 2021, 02:36:16 pm »
Thanks all for the input + issue reports, I'll try to fix as many as I can for the next patch version. I'm not sure I have the time to play with those little timing issues though. Also, the default names are at 0x478c0 in the ROM (that's a file address, not a CPU address).

I don't have the time or energy to keep the FF6-T Edition translation maintained/updated, especially given that the Japanese patch might get updates at any time, so I'm hoping that someone here might be willing to take over as maintainer instead. I can maybe look at ASM issues from time to time but my focus needs to be on other things.

EDIT: I'd like to try to fix the battle shortcut menu issue (with the "N" in the moogle's name still showing) but it's been a while so I forget how the battle window layout data works. The issue seems to be with a change I made to c2e1d1 to move the righthand battle menu string left one tile. My gut tells me my fix there wasn't as airtight as it could've been, but I'm having trouble Google searching for how these battle window layout data blocks work.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 03:40:42 pm by Tomato »

Ballz

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Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4/6 stuff)
« Reply #219 on: November 25, 2021, 03:39:29 pm »
How difficult is it to adjust the timing on those event text windows? If it's as simple as changing a hex value or two, I probably have enough time and OCD to experiment and play around with those myself.
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