News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?  (Read 5341 times)

sil3nt_j

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Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« on: April 21, 2020, 12:10:14 am »
Not sure if this is the place to ask, but I just read this online and now it has me paranoid... I think I might stick to my 3rd party system for these. Anybody ever had a NES die on them because of these?

Btw I've got a krikzz, it had good reviews

FAST6191

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2020, 10:08:07 am »
ROM wise I don't think there is some kind of killer combo of instructions that cooks things, and even a stress test would probably take years to show results. The NES does not have a firmware like some modern consoles so no chance of a bad edit to the menu or something. You might be able to hurt something if you hacked a ROM to output various write commands outside a vblank or other relevant interrupt (I will have to defer to those that get down and dirty with the lowest levels but variations on the theme exist for some consoles and devices I know more about) but that is more likely to bother your TV. I don't think we see anything do the voltage spike to defeat CIC these days (back in the day it was a workaround for those not wanting to pay Nintendo's tax) in flash carts as CIC is generally known and easy to work around with modern devices, not to mention I don't know if I have ever heard of such things killing a console.

I probably read the same article as you where someone was all concerned because repros and flash carts either use a different voltage (which would be boosted or regulated internally) or draw more current than a stock cart (a draw you could probably measure with a decent multimeter even, though likely not really any different to some of the bigger boy mappers, game genie, a fully loaded system with multitap or anything like that). I can't speak for all the repros out there (I don't know if they are still mostly canniablising old carts or have moved onto other things) I then giggled at that one, not to mention the everdrive/krikzz stuff was made by people that clearly understand electrical engineering where the articles I wrote usually wrote as though the NES was a precious limited resource that should be gently coddled so as to survive to show future generations. Never mind that I could probably have a bug for bug one made right now from scratch for about the price of a midlife crisis car, and the same thing that gives us 1:1 repros in the next few years, this is to say all those nice high gate width fabs becoming cost affordable for mere mortals* will also work just as well for old consoles.
Personally I would be more worried about an old power supply in the console losing the plot (my PAL ones are seemingly chunky old school transformers so that seems less likely than the modern trend for cheap switch mode stuff with minimal protections) and burning out my nice expensive flash cart.

*as it stands you can reasonably have your FPGA burned into silicon such that consumer devices the run of a few thousand can be cost effective. Chip design itself is not the easiest thing but they still teach it to electrical engineering students every day. Speaking of FPGAs were are now also seeing commercial clone consoles using them to achieve 1:1 recreation as it were in portable devices so famiclones are likely to improve massively in years to come rather than just being "ooh this chip has a 6502 in there so maybe".

Raeven0

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2020, 07:36:13 pm »
Hardware experts note that you can force the PPU (i.e. graphics chip) to write palette data on grounded pins, which can theoretically damage it since doing so shorts the PPU's ground to its +5V supply. However, it is considered extremely unlikely that any damage will actually occur.

sil3nt_j

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2020, 07:59:52 am »
Not really sure what all that means, I'm not an expert on any of the technical stuff.

What's been happening, though, is whenever I try to play my Ever drive games on the Retron 3, they don't work. There was also a couple of hacked games I bought a while back that will work, but when they load, there are a bunch of vertical lines on the screen that won't go away.

They hacked games don't work on the NES, but the Ever drive will. I just don't want to damage my NES because they were working fine on the Retron, but now they don't load.

Starting to think that all of these video game hacks aren't worth the trouble, unless there is a way to play them that won't cause damage. I like playing the games, but don't want to ruin my systems.

Jorpho

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2020, 11:53:10 am »
unless there is a way to play them that won't cause damage.
Um, play them in an emulator on your PC?

"It's just doesn't feeeeel right except on the original hardware!" you may say.  Well, evidently that may not be an option.

If you bought those hacked games from a reputable seller online, then you should probably go badger the seller. But if I'm not mistaken, there are definitely repro carts that are explicitly sold with a warning that they will only work on particular clone systems.
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Vanya

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2020, 12:13:49 pm »
Plus, regardless of not understanding the technical information the conclusions above are clearly that it is virtually impossible to really damage your system through the use of a ROM.
So unless you are playing some obscure hack that is purposefully trying to damage your hardware, you're quite safe.

Raeven0

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2020, 08:20:20 pm »
What's been happening, though, is whenever I try to play my Ever drive games on the Retron 3, they don't work. There was also a couple of hacked games I bought a while back that will work, but when they load, there are a bunch of vertical lines on the screen that won't go away.

The Retron 3 is, of course, not a NES, and cannot even run all licensed NES games correctly. Every model produces graphical glitches in e.g. After Burner, and the V1 model hardlocks upon loading Rad Racer 2. Its behavior is not representative of a real NES.

Ice Man

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2020, 05:57:36 am »
The reason why NES Everdrives do not work on Retron 3 or some other Clone systems is the clock signal.
Everdrives detect the region of the console afaik, PAL, NTSC, Dendy, etc. And if it can't find a matching signal it won't boot. Or that's what I remember.

There's no way a ROM itself can damage the console, even if it breaks (unknown opcodes). The CPU will just not play it. That's all.

However, Chinese repro/bootleg makers often use 3V ICs without proper level down converters and this can damage the cart/console in the long run.
The older Everdrives also has 3V ICs not shifted down properly on their address lines either. But I tihnk Krikzz fixed that on the new Everdrive Pro releases.

Other than that there's no way to damage the console or cartridge with faulty games or the like.

sil3nt_j

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2020, 08:35:19 pm »
The thing was, it actually did work on the Retron at first, but then stopped. I saw a video (can't find the link right now) saying that it was something to do with the memory/pins or something related (I forget what) that ages the system faster.

Thinking about just getting another 3rd party system for the sole purpose of playing ROMS. I dont want to damage my NES.

Raeven0

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2020, 09:00:37 pm »
Why ask the question, if the answer is irrelevant? Were you hoping that someone would validate the decision you had already made?

sil3nt_j

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2020, 10:27:08 pm »
Just wondering if anyone had stories about a rom or hacked game destroying a system. I don't believe the videos I watch, so I investigated.

Ice Man

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2020, 03:53:10 am »
That's still impossible. See my post above.

Plus Retron 3 sucks.

sil3nt_j

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2020, 08:11:20 pm »
Any recommendations for good systems to play hacks on?

I don't like using the cpu btw.

Ice Man

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2020, 04:39:01 am »
Original consoles.

Jorpho

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2020, 01:32:30 pm »
Any recommendations for good systems to play hacks on?
Like I said, if a repro is sold with an explicit warning that it will not work on the original console, then you have your recommendation right there.

Quote
I don't like using the cpu btw.
Surely you're aware that some of these clone systems are just as much emulators as anything on your "cpu"?

In fact, don't a lot of those clone systems already support IPS patching?  Then you can just use your original carts if it means that much to you.
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sil3nt_j

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2020, 11:53:39 pm »
I just like playing with the old NES controls.

Also, I didn't want to ruin my original NES so I was playing on the 3rd party system. I had actually bought "Batman: Shadows of Gotham" on cartridge because I didn't know about ROMS and Ever drives at the time and still haven't been able to find a version of the game that is already patched. If anyone has a patched copy, and wants to send it, that would be awesome though.

Jorpho

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Re: Can ROMS / Ever drives destroy your NES system?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2020, 12:18:51 am »
I just like playing with the old NES controls.
You are aware there are lots of ways to plug an NES controller into a PC, right? Raphnet sells all sorts of things.  Then you can play your games with the old NES controls without worrying about ruining your NES or anything else.
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