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How should Super Mario Bros 1 backgrounds look?

Darker like the NES game
Stay lighter like All-Stars

Author Topic: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )  (Read 150969 times)

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #500 on: October 03, 2020, 04:39:03 am »
Well, I opened the rom using YY-CHR, loaded the pallete, but uh.. Mario and the others seem to be horribly transfigured in pieces and scattered around. The other sprites are fine though. There's also a copy of the original SMB2 players.


Huh... that's strange, but then I actually never looked at the sprites in the Demo since Yoshifanatic's hack just assembles the fully hacked rom right then and there. But that did make me realize I actually have a sprite sheet for everything in the Demo in a .bin format, they're still a bit disassembled but not to the degree that they are in my demo.  I threw them into the MEGA so you can get them from there.  Sorry about making you jump through the hoops.

I have mostly complete sheets for SMB1 and Lost Levels as well actually. I was getting everything organized by copy pasting my sprites into the folders of Yoshi Fanatic's hack when DarkSamus99 contacted me so SMB3 is the only one that I've not got sheets for yet.
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

Hellfire

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #501 on: October 03, 2020, 05:16:24 am »
Huh... that's strange, but then I actually never looked at the sprites in the Demo since Yoshifanatic's hack just assembles the fully hacked rom right then and there. But that did make me realize I actually have a sprite sheet for everything in the Demo in a .bin format, they're still a bit disassembled but not to the degree that they are in my demo.  I threw them into the MEGA so you can get them from there.  Sorry about making you jump through the hoops.

I have mostly complete sheets for SMB1 and Lost Levels as well actually. I was getting everything organized by copy pasting my sprites into the folders of Yoshi Fanatic's hack when DarkSamus99 contacted me so SMB3 is the only one that I've not got sheets for yet.
Well, don't worry. All I had to do was press the + button a couple of times, a solution that Justamariofan suggested. Mario sprites are done. I tried to do Luigi but he just looks worse than your sprites, so I've kept them as is. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nzxZq87nFyONUEXrw20O6p-9GF932EbW/view?usp=sharing

Justamariofan

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #502 on: October 03, 2020, 05:23:57 am »
So I may have edited this off-hand, but I edited unused sprites for SMB2.
-Mario, Luigi, and Toad (ALL Super) may look like the used versions with a slight bit of changes, but for small and Peach, I may have also referenced the NES.
-The blue on Peach is somewhat different from what is planned... I think.
-There are a few flaws, example: the shading in Mario's gloves for character select is red.
-This isn't mandatory to use, but if you like to, and maybe fix a few flaws.
WARNING: This image is 4x the actual height.
https://imgur.com/Ta5XnC8

And about the Mouser options... I edited the pink and bluish-green palettes
Pink Mouser: R:31 G:22 B:25    R:30 G:10 B:16    R:26 G:2 B:9
Bluish-Green Mouser: R:22 G:31 B:28    R:10 G:30 B:24    R:2 G:22 B:16
-This isn't mandatory to use, but if you like to, go ahead
WARNING: This image is 4x the actual height.
https://imgur.com/ULiQfdE
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 05:36:56 am by Justamariofan »

Aquashark

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #503 on: October 08, 2020, 12:05:17 pm »
Hi! I've been watching from the shadows for a long time, and as a fellow person who loves the manual/character art, I'm very excited for this project! You've done an excellent job and are a great artist.

I have a question, though - I was wondering why for the Ninji enemy, you went with the buttony artwork that was used for later iterations of the character (starting with SMW) versus the original Doki Doki Panic / SMB2 manual art that gives them teeth/claws.
(Looks like Supper Mario Broth has done an article on the Ninji evolution too: https://www.patreon.com/posts/supper-mario-10-28117296 )

I tried searching the thread again to see if it's been brought up before, but I couldn't find anything.

I'm just curious - I personally enjoy the original teeth interpretation more than the buttons, but that might just be because I grew up with the SMB2 manual :>

EDIT: I just found your mention of the Ninji at the very end of the OP, but I can't seem to figure out how to delete this... perhaps I have to wait for moderator approval :/ I guess you can still comment on your reasoning if you wish!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 12:26:14 pm by Aquashark »

AdamDravian

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #504 on: October 08, 2020, 09:26:17 pm »
I can't seem to figure out how to delete this... perhaps I have to wait for moderator approval :/

Well I'm glad you weren't able to delete your post, as I found that article you linked to on the evolution of the ninji really interesting.
Writer of the '80s-themed webcomic Satan Ninja 198X

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #505 on: October 11, 2020, 02:28:31 am »
Well, don't worry. All I had to do was press the + button a couple of times, a solution that Justamariofan suggested. Mario sprites are done. I tried to do Luigi but he just looks worse than your sprites, so I've kept them as is. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nzxZq87nFyONUEXrw20O6p-9GF932EbW/view?usp=sharing
Thanks for that, i've put them into the game. I notice you also made Mario a bit rounder. I always felt like he was rounder on the box art but I wasn't sure how far to push it.

So I may have edited this off-hand, but I edited unused sprites for SMB2.
-Mario, Luigi, and Toad (ALL Super) may look like the used versions with a slight bit of changes, but for small and Peach, I may have also referenced the NES.
-The blue on Peach is somewhat different from what is planned... I think.
-There are a few flaws, example: the shading in Mario's gloves for character select is red.
-This isn't mandatory to use, but if you like to, and maybe fix a few flaws.
WARNING: This image is 4x the actual height.
https://imgur.com/Ta5XnC8

And about the Mouser options... I edited the pink and bluish-green palettes
Pink Mouser: R:31 G:22 B:25    R:30 G:10 B:16    R:26 G:2 B:9
Bluish-Green Mouser: R:22 G:31 B:28    R:10 G:30 B:24    R:2 G:22 B:16
-This isn't mandatory to use, but if you like to, go ahead
WARNING: This image is 4x the actual height.
https://imgur.com/ULiQfdE

My eye for subtle changes isn't really great so you'll have to let me know exactly what is different here...
The obvious ones are that you opted for giant headed small Mario, Luigi, and Toadstool.. though Toad is kept the same.  I know that was a thing in the original NES game, but I feel like it looks a bit ridiculous so idk if I want to revert back to that change.

As for Mouser, I've talked to DarkSamus99 so it seems "Mecha Mouser" for the 2nd encounter might be back on the table. But just in case, I wouldn't mind having the pallet for the 2nd Mouser encounter.  If we can't do mecha mouser, then I'd still like to incorporate the green into the 2nd Mouser.. although I'd kinda like to keep the inside of his mouth pink, so I might just make his fur green instead.

Hi! I've been watching from the shadows for a long time, and as a fellow person who loves the manual/character art, I'm very excited for this project! You've done an excellent job and are a great artist.

I have a question, though - I was wondering why for the Ninji enemy, you went with the buttony artwork that was used for later iterations of the character (starting with SMW) versus the original Doki Doki Panic / SMB2 manual art that gives them teeth/claws.
(Looks like Supper Mario Broth has done an article on the Ninji evolution too: https://www.patreon.com/posts/supper-mario-10-28117296 )

I tried searching the thread again to see if it's been brought up before, but I couldn't find anything.

I'm just curious - I personally enjoy the original teeth interpretation more than the buttons, but that might just be because I grew up with the SMB2 manual :>

EDIT: I just found your mention of the Ninji at the very end of the OP, but I can't seem to figure out how to delete this... perhaps I have to wait for moderator approval :/ I guess you can still comment on your reasoning if you wish!

Yeah, as you saw on the OP, I think the original Ninji look pretty bad and would rather base it on how they looked in SMW, Paper Mario, and Mario Advance. The way it looks like they're wearing a purple suit with just their eyes showing is more in line with being little walking "Ninja Stars". It's a personal preference thing.  Although since Ninji only have two sprites, it should be super easy to make a corrected version that restores the mouth.  I wouldn't be offended if people iterated on what I've done to suit their taste.  YYCHR is really easy to make small edits like that.

On a side note, there's been this "Where it started, how it's going" meme spreading around twitter, and I think it paints a pretty nice picture of the progress made since this project began.



To think I was actually going to leave this at just changing Mario's idle pose in SMB1 and flipping the shirt and overalls colors in SMB2.
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

Vanya

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #506 on: October 11, 2020, 03:47:54 am »
Everything looks great so far.
And the comparison really give me an impact.
One nitpick, tho.
Forgive me if this was already brought up, but the mountains seem off.
The green is to close to the bushes in the foreground, and having a blue tinge really sells the illusion of being far off in the original. Since the original game didn't have the mountains in the background, I feel that aspect should be left alone.

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #507 on: October 11, 2020, 08:28:07 am »
But there were mountains in the background of the original game, they were just a lot smaller, see?



Funny you mention the bushes, because I recently darkened them. Felt like they didn't stand out enough. But now that I've dark into the mountains they kind of blend in. So I'll probably just go back to making them a lighter color.

Anyway, if you like the lighter color mountains, they will still exist in Lost Levels.
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

Vanya

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #508 on: October 12, 2020, 02:21:59 am »
Huh. I forgot that the mountains existed int he original game as well.
Yeah, my issue is more that the bushes blend in to the greener mountains, so lightening them up should fix that.

VioletFox

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #509 on: October 12, 2020, 06:49:48 am »
I don't remember if this was brought up before, but I was wondering if you were planning to make the world 8 part of mario 3 closer to how it was originally. With it's mostly black and white backgrounds. I was always dissapointed they changed that in the snes version.

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #510 on: October 13, 2020, 03:49:52 am »

Reverted the bushes back to how they were before I darkened them. Hopefully it looks better. Ignore the funky Mario, I had starman invincibility at the time.  I think the lightest shade of green should be tweaked but that will require altering the pallet. Waiting to do any further pallet editing till the build script is done.

I don't remember if this was brought up before, but I was wondering if you were planning to make the world 8 part of mario 3 closer to how it was originally. With it's mostly black and white backgrounds. I was always dissapointed they changed that in the snes version.

I would like to but I sounds like it may be beyond my abilities to do so.  I've always struggled with backgrounds, even when I have tools as simple as Lunar Magic to help me.  So if I was to attempt to restore or change backgrounds, I would likely need a lot of help and it would be one of the last changes made before the hack is ready for publishing.
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

Vanya

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #511 on: October 13, 2020, 11:30:33 pm »
That's much better!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 04:13:29 am by Vanya »

Metalwario64

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #512 on: October 13, 2020, 11:48:15 pm »
I think going with more natural colors (having the distant mountains looking pale and blueish, with darker and slightly more yellow bushes) looks better, personally:


Vanya

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #513 on: October 14, 2020, 04:15:11 am »
That would separate the foreground from the background strikingly.
Maybe even a little too much.

Metalwario64

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #514 on: October 14, 2020, 08:49:51 pm »
Honestly, I'd even go further:


I guess I'm just a Bob Ross fan since I like the idea of really creating depth with colors and layering.

Of course, with these colors I also went and darkened the Koopa Troopa's shell as well.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 08:55:57 pm by Metalwario64 »

AdamDravian

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #515 on: October 15, 2020, 02:47:37 am »
I agree with Metal Wario. From an art perspective, fading the color of the background hills makes sense.
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pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #516 on: October 16, 2020, 07:16:33 am »
I thought trying to look more like the NES version of SMB1 would go over well but I'm meeting more resistance than I expected so it looks like it's poll time.

Although even if the lighter colors win i'm still going to want to find a way to make some of the background elements in SMB1 and Lost Levels to look different. In the Famicom version they added a bunch of fruzzy parts, I guess to make the hills look more grassy?  But it looked pretty bad and idk how to translate that to the SNES version.

I can only work with the shades of green within the existing color pallet for the time being, as I said, DarkSamus99 has been working on that build script again and I've put off color pallet work until it's done. Even so, i'm wary of changing the pallet of background elements. I really don't want to mess anything up.
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

Vanya

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #517 on: October 17, 2020, 04:21:58 am »
That is perfectly reasonable. I would hold of, too.
At any rate, you can always just throw in an optional patch if there's enough demand for it, no?

Justamariofan

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #518 on: October 17, 2020, 04:44:52 am »
As I said before, these are unused sprites, so you are more than welcome to place them in for the unused sprites.

Mecha Mouser sounds nice, but if it's not possible, I'm glad I offered an idea.

I created a folder with the unused sprites for SMB2: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_sadBo0LFH_pDmH6hC_OqooBsY9n0EWH?usp=sharing
and while I was at it, I made a few unused sprites from SMB1.
https://imgur.com/tPB1KmA

CleitonBR

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )
« Reply #519 on: October 27, 2020, 09:32:54 am »
I'm talking about this:














You will change all of the backgrounds? To be more similar to the Nes?