News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?  (Read 5980 times)

Bakkus

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Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« on: January 09, 2020, 11:58:05 pm »
Note: I've yet to play these games, so there might be factual errors in this post

These two games and especially the second one are among the most highly rated JRPGs ever made, and I have heard that in spite of that they have a fairly lousy English translation coupled with some bugs and weird stuff like a dragon making elephant noises. When games like breath of Fire 2 got a fan re-translation as fast as it did, I find the lack of such for Suikoden odd.

On a side note, is there a more or less full list for games that were localised with lousy translations which got an updated re-translation made by fans?

pleasejust

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2020, 01:38:05 am »
I loved Suikoden 1 & 2. Best JRPGs imo. There are bugfix patches for each game if you search the site. Never heard about the translation being particularly bad though.

mz

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2020, 03:14:16 am »
When games like breath of Fire 2 got a fan re-translation as fast as it did, I find the lack of such for Suikoden odd.
99% of the work in a fan translation is the hacking part. Breath of Fire 2 had recently been translated to German, so a lot of the hacking work was already done...

In any case, to answer your main question: because there aren't enough capable people interested enough in these games.

There are millions of games that need better translations and programming and graphics and other stuff.
There are millions of games that don't have any translation at all.
There are only a handful of people doing anything related to fan translations.

I am the only person who has released a translation of a PSX game in more than 2 years, and I'm the shittiest translator and hacker you can find, and I was paid to do it. Imagine what are the odds of finding someone:
* Capable of improving the translations of Suikoden 1 and 2 (that is, great Japanese and English knowledge)
* Capable of hacking two different games (great skills for reverse engineering, programming, graphic editing, etc.)
* Prefers to retranslate these games instead of translating any of the millions of untranslated games, or retranslating any of the millions of games he might like more
* Wants to do a ton of work for free, waste months of his life and suffer every second of it

I think the odds are pretty much nonexistent. That's why most people who really want to see something, learn how to do all this stuff and do it by themselves.
There has to be a better life.

cccmar

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 03:52:52 am »
Well... to answer your question, it's exactly what mz said. Not to mention that PSX games have huge scripts, and believe me - they really take a while to translate, seeing that most groups only have 1 translator. Sometimes the translation can even take as much time as hacking, if the script is sufficiently long (SRW games are a good example of that). That's the reason why PSX translations in general are few and far between, and I don't see that changing. Same goes for some obscure, Japanese PC stuff.

filler

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2020, 03:25:47 pm »
Ditto to what has already been said except maybe the 99% is the hacking part. Translation and testing are pretty important, time consuming, and specialized as well. ;)

I get where you're coming from. It seems like a lot of folks are really into the popular games and there are seemingly tons of hacks and re-translations around Zelda, Mario, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, etc...

Personally, I would never work on a re-translation when there are hundreds upon hundreds (thousands if you want to count some disc based systems), of games that have never been localized in English.

I do think folks completely underestimate the amount of time, expertise, and dedication it takes to finish a translation patch of any kind. Best I can tell there are about 30 active hackers whose work is submitted to this site in a given year. Additionally there are about another 30 active translators, and 30 active support people. That's less than 100 people working in this community. (EDIT: Note I'm talking about fan translation in particular, not including other kinds of hacks)

I will concede that this work is mostly thankless, completely uncompensated, and kind of masochistic. However, there are 7.7 billion people on Earth, around 41,793 computer science majors per year in the USA, and more than 7,000 people who registered for the JLPT in 2019. Why are there only like 90 folks at any one time willing to do this stuff for s**ts and giggles? Damned if I know.

Rudy

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2020, 04:24:38 pm »
There was a group translating them to french, they had figured a way to insert the english translation from Konami back in. They have some english screenshots here: https://www.romhack.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3585 . I think i remember someone from this forum contacting them about doing an english patch but I don't think he ever finished it

BigNailCow

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2020, 05:50:17 am »
* Capable of improving the translations of Suikoden 1 and 2 (that is, great Japanese and English knowledge)
* Capable of hacking two different games (great skills for reverse engineering, programming, graphic editing, etc.)
* Prefers to retranslate these games instead of translating any of the millions of untranslated games, or retranslating any of the millions of games he might like more
* Wants to do a ton of work for free, waste months of his life and suffer every second of it

Well, I cover the bottom 3, and while I do have limited Japanese knowledge, I don't think it's good enough to do a retranslation on my own. However, I am getting into Suiko 1/2 hacking lately for some other purposes, and I have thought about doing an "editing pass" on the existing script, just to make it *sound* less bad. I won't be able to restore any intent from the original Japanese, but I can improve "immersion" a bit.

So... look forward to that in the future, perhaps. Or if anyone out there is a translator who is interested in retranslating Suikoden 1 or 2, send me a PM and maybe we can make it happen, someday.

vergil2012

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2020, 10:29:48 am »
Breath of Fire 2 had recently been translated to German, so a lot of the hacking work was already done...

Maybe a dumb question, but which translation do you mean exactly?

The only one I'm aware of is this:

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/1049/

Is there a another one for Breath of Fire 2?

mz

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2020, 11:47:35 am »
Maybe a dumb question, but which translation do you mean exactly?

The only one I'm aware of is this:

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/1049/

Is there a another one for Breath of Fire 2?
Yes, that's the one. It's mentioned many times in the readme file of the English retranslation.

Why do you expect another one?
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vergil2012

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2020, 04:53:50 pm »
Yes, that's the one. It's mentioned many times in the readme file of the English retranslation.

Why do you expect another one?

I don't know. The ''recently'' part confused me and I thought there is another one.

Sorry, my bad.

Kallisto

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Re: Why hasn't Suikoden 1 & 2 had a fan retranslation yet?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2020, 02:50:05 pm »
Well... to answer your question, it's exactly what mz said. Not to mention that PSX games have huge scripts, and believe me - they really take a while to translate, seeing that most groups only have 1 translator. Sometimes the translation can even take as much time as hacking, if the script is sufficiently long (SRW games are a good example of that). That's the reason why PSX translations in general are few and far between, and I don't see that changing. Same goes for some obscure, Japanese PC stuff.

What will need to change in order for PSX hacking to be more accessible even for the most amateur?

And could converting those into PSP format makes things more easier? Seems like back then PSP hacking was pretty high (it has slowed down somewhat now), so I assumed the PSP hacking scene was considered easier.