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Author Topic: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games  (Read 2301 times)

PresidentLeever

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https://platformadventure.weebly.com/

Inspired by Jeremy Parish's site and YT series in early 2019, I started to document and create a resource for the earlier history of one of my fave genres. Each game entry lists defining features relating to the genre and links to more info in the form of playthroughs and reviews. On the site you have sorting by year, platform and generations (a WIP thing, might change). There's also a page on forerunners/precursors from the period before the first Metroid, and one on outlier games (games outside of but featuring some elements associated with the genre).

I consider the '80s and early '90s pages to be about 85% done so far and am currently working on the mid-late 90s pages. I'm not sure I'll cover the '00s and beyond, I might cut it off around the late '00s to keep it focused on the earlier history of the genre which is what I was interested in documenting in the first place. But we'll see what happens and I can always come back to it later on. The site itself should explain the rest, if it doesn't then let me know.
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Badseed

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 12:51:31 pm »
Thanks, good read. However, watch your spelling and grammar. (Sorry I have a degree in English, so these things irk me  ::) )
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Spooniest

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 11:27:57 pm »
Thanks, good read. However, watch your spelling and grammar. (Sorry I have a degree in English, so these things irk me  ::) )

I didn't get my degree but was raised by someone who did study it. I could take a pass at proofing for you, Mr. President, if you like.

EDIT: Hehehehehe... I'd completely forgotten there was a game called Montezuma's Revenge... hahaha... Oh, it's inappropriate humor. I'll refrain... this time.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 11:35:29 pm by Spooniest »
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PowerPanda

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2019, 02:06:13 pm »
Quick note, I REALLY like the term "Platform Adventure Game." I've never been a fan of the "Metroidvania" title, because I think that up until Ori and the Blind Forest, it kind of dictated theme and atmosphere in addition to mechanics. This website is a great resource, as it shows the genre didn't pop up out of nowhere with Metroid. Good work!

PresidentLeever

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2019, 03:45:25 pm »
^Yeah, agreed. Besides the reasons I mention myself. Thanks for checking it out!

Thanks, good read. However, watch your spelling and grammar. (Sorry I have a degree in English, so these things irk me  ::) )

Would you mind pointing some of these out? I'm not a native speaker (swedish) but I feel like I shouldn't be messing this up since it was an obligatory subject in school.

@Spooniest: Be my guest! Yeah that is a pretty funny title, though they don't do anything with the joke in-game.
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Badseed

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2019, 09:50:06 am »
President-
I'm not trying to bust your balls, I realized you are not a native speaker by some phrasing like "I've been using Platform Adventure since the 90s". Better English would be something like " I've been playing platform adventure games since the 90s". A different example would be: "the degree to which player caused changes to the game world", there should be an "a" between "which" and "player". Anything else is mostly minor conjugation and/or spelling. Like I said a great read, keep up the good work.  :beer:
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 12:20:11 pm »
Right, well in the first one I'm talking about using the term "Platform Adventure" rather than playing PA games but I can make this clearer.
In the other example, I guess I can rephrase it as "When it comes to persistency, the degree to which changes to the game world caused by the player (ie "player caused changes", I thought you could say that but I guess not) are permanent can vary".

Thanks!
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Badseed

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2019, 01:12:31 pm »
All minor stuff brother, the intent got across loud and clear

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4lorn

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2019, 06:06:48 pm »
Quick note, I REALLY like the term "Platform Adventure Game." I've never been a fan of the "Metroidvania" title, because I think that up until Ori and the Blind Forest, it kind of dictated theme and atmosphere in addition to mechanics. This website is a great resource, as it shows the genre didn't pop up out of nowhere with Metroid. Good work!

Worse than that, the more you try and define Metroidvania as a genre the more things fall apart by virtue of its origin point, which was some videogame journos going gaga over the fact that just then they noticed Super Metroid and SotN had maps, character abilities geared toward exploration and power, and explorable and hub-like areas (elements which by themselves have probably been around since the ZX Spectrum era). You can't entirely rely on the design side of things either, since Super Metroid is adamant about the "less is more" design of things while SotN is baroque right down to its systems (hundreds of items and abilities to kill enemies who are largely still programmed to fight retro Belmonts).

Also: didn't mean to rain on your parade, PresidentLeever. It's a nice project, I just never liked the term because of its implications.

PresidentLeever

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2019, 06:50:26 pm »
Sure, well that's partly why I made the site as well - to show earlier similar games and everything leading up to those two. But also to document similar games in-between SotN and the later resurrection of sorts around the mid '00s, as well as precursors to similar 3D games. I've only used the term MV when promoting the site and on the front page because it's popular and useful (kind of, you still see a lot of confusion about what it means).

If you look at the most vivid community based on the genre, which seems to be r/metroidvania, their definition is really just Metroid's style of sidescrolling action adventure, which isn't that far from early Zelda either. SotN's additions aren't seen as a staple except for those who are really into that style. Jeremy Parish's definition seems looser, maybe he changed his mind since then but there's a YT video where he says the 3D zeldas are basically MVs.

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PresidentLeever

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2019, 11:51:24 am »
Latest updates: Info on Crash 2, Turok, Fantastic Dizzy and Misadventures of Tron Bonne
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 03:49:31 pm »
Latest update: Info on Outcast (1999) and Milon's Secret Castle (GB, 1993)
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pirate_sephiroth

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2020, 09:40:56 pm »
It's awful how crappy indie games and dumb reviewers destroyed the meaning of the term.
Nowadays, any 2D platformer adventure set in a non linear map is defined as "metroidvania".

The games have none of the RPG elements (stats, elements, gear) from SotN so they're left only with the metroid part, therefore Metroid-like would have been the proper classification.

PresidentLeever

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2020, 10:57:22 am »
To be fair the meaning (of MV) was always pretty loose. See this discussion between the people who coined and popularized it from 2008:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdiv5W9xrQM

It can be either Metroid-like or SotN/ARPG-like, it covers both ends of that spectrum. Platform Adventure also covered both historically, at least here in Sweden.
If you look at Reddit's MV subreddit, which are generally more hardcore, they define it based on Metroid's mechanics and structure rather than SotN as well.

Personally I think a proper Metroid-like would be a game without towns, NPCs and shops as well, perhaps in a sci-fi setting too.
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Thirteen 1355

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2020, 05:01:14 am »
I always define a game by labelling it with one or two genres. I've always called these games adventure platformers, so it's nice to see that here.

If it has RPG elements I call it an RPG platformer.
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Bregalad

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2020, 09:43:24 am »
Quick note, I REALLY like the term "Platform Adventure Game." I've never been a fan of the "Metroidvania" title, because I think that up until Ori and the Blind Forest, it kind of dictated theme and atmosphere in addition to mechanics. This website is a great resource, as it shows the genre didn't pop up out of nowhere with Metroid. Good work!
The problem is that "adventure" is an extremely vague term, basically any video game where you are some kind of hero with a mission is an adventure game, that is at least half of every game ever released if not even more. Nevertheless the term is elegant.

Quote
If it has RPG elements I call it an RPG platformer.
But what is an "RPG element" ? Usually if you have stats or level ups, maybe an lifebar that incrase sizes, or if you can switch weapons. But many games have those features and aren't RPGs.

Back when Nintendo released Metroid, it was part of some sort of trilogy with Legend of Zelda and Kid Icarus, where all 3 games were on Famicom Disk System, used saves and FDS sound (for the first time on the Famicom), and had some RPG elements while still being essentially action games. RPG elements were limited to saves, increased lifebar (although you'd still get the standard low amount of health after game over) and the use of items.

Thirteen 1355

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2020, 11:47:13 am »
To me, RPG elements have always referred to character progress in numerical terms. Increase of hearts like in Zelda aren't enough for me to call Zelda an RPG. Levelling up feels like one. So does equipment. And every game that has these elements, to me, is an RPG.
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2020, 04:19:44 pm »
The problem is that "adventure" is an extremely vague term, basically any video game where you are some kind of hero with a mission is an adventure game, that is at least half of every game ever released if not even more. Nevertheless the term is elegant.

Ok and the explanation on the site isn't enough? There's also wikipedia. Doesn't seem like you read either but yes, I can understand the confusion to an extent since platformer directly refers to game mechanics whereas action adventure seems like it's from movies. In fact that's how the term became so vague in the mid-late 90s where reviewers started calling Tomb Raider and such games AA when they are more like "Prince of Persia-style platformers in 3D".

I always define a game by labelling it with one or two genres. I've always called these games adventure platformers, so it's nice to see that here.

If it has RPG elements I call it an RPG platformer.

Sure, that works too I suppose. I don't mind slapping a few different genres on a game either, which I do for a lot of games on the lists on the site. Platform Adventure/MV is always assumed, and then the genre(s) next to the game titles in the lists are complementary to that.
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thr

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2020, 10:37:38 pm »
nice site, but could you add or switch to list view? grid view is ok in a gamestore or a frontend or some such, but here it just makes it really tough to know what i'm clicking actually, with all these stylised lettering and game names in japanese.
it also seems you're using uncompressed images for your games lists. please use proper thumbnails, because those category pages load very slowly even with a fast connection.
also, the search on your page does not actually search your page. you'll need to add a custom default query for "platformadventure.weebly" to actually show results from your site.

edit: oh yeah, i consider Zelda clones Metroidvanias too. It's obvious with Zelda 2, but even with other Zeldas the only distinguishing factor is that they're tile based, or in 3d. But Metroid Prime was 3d too. so what matters is game mechanics, and Zelda clones share most of these with MVs: powerups, heart containers, secrets, puzzles, killing mobs, monster drops, etc. presentation may be different. but it's still mostly the same genre in my book
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 10:53:27 pm by thr »

PresidentLeever

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Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2020, 06:12:15 pm »
I just thought I'd go with a more modern and stylish look (as much as a free weebly site can provide that) but I can add a page with a list, sure. Note that you can hover over any cover with JP text only and see a pop-up text of its title that I've added though. Oh and if anyone knows how to link to a specific line on a subpage for a free weebly site then I'd love to know that as well.

No weebly turns them into jpegs actually, but it seems the size is maintained and some are pretty big. I could have a look at that at some point, if I get more complaints about it. For me the biggest pages tend to load in a few seconds.

The search tool seems to be working fine for me? Not sure what you mean.

Agreed on the ones with proper platforming at least. Well, some are more purist and consider the overworld/dungeons structure of Zelda and similar games to be enough of a difference, and the platforming is semi-automatic in the N64 and GC games, so that's different as well.



February 06, 2020, 05:45:07 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
nice site, but could you add or switch to list view? grid view is ok in a gamestore or a frontend or some such, but here it just makes it really tough to know

Here you go!:
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/generation-lists.html


« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 03:23:01 pm by PresidentLeever »
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