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Author Topic: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod  (Read 14276 times)

ponlork

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2021, 01:28:43 pm »
ah yeah i had to go through that when i first posted here. it'll go away once you reach maybe 10 or so posts. I'm a fan of MK too, and I've peeped the MK Plus project that Paul's been working on over the years. Amazing he can add an entirely new mode into the game.

have you heard this podcast interview with James 'MK' Fink?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIhayaVkcl8

He gives some pretty interesting stories on MK, he even has in his possession a version of Mortal Kombat for the Snes that was turned down by Nintendo because it has too much gore in it. 

I initially gave Jenovi's comparison video a like too but later when i played the Saturn version myself, I was disappointed that it was missing a lot of stuff from the PSX. I feel bad cuz i posted some criticism and i may be a jackass sometimes when i start getting analytical. And when i think about it, the Saturn version does have more balanced gameplay. I wonder if the Japanese Saturn version fixed the Audio problem where the announcer doesn't call many plays.

guess what? Chris Kirby who was the original programmer for NBA Jam T.E. on the PlayStation commented on my video. He had some really uplifting things to say. make me want to go back and delete any type of criticism and disparaging remarks i may have said about the PS1 version lol but nah i really do like the PS1 version i just can be harsh sometimes when it comes to giving criticism.

But yeah he mentioned that the NBA actually made them remove the effect of players falling when they get posterized. Which makes perfect sense because around 1994 there was this big controversy over video game violence and the NBA probably over-reacted. They even made Midway remove the backboard glass shattering effect in the Arcade revision too.



Well hopefully i can have some casual conversations with him regarding NBA Jam. He's working on some big projects so I don't want to pester him too much.

Could you believe he programmed that at 18? Here's a excerpt from the book Arcade Perfect featuring him where he details the process of porting NBA Jam TE to the PlayStation. It's a great read, i urge everyone to read it: https://www.usgamer.net/articles/porting-nba-jam-tournament-edition-16-bit-arcade-playstation-excerpt

I was analyzing the sneakers squeaking sound in the arcade version and i think it might be a sound effect that is just playing in a loop rather than coinciding with the players running around. If that's the case i probably could restore it in the PS1 version to by simply adding it in the music soundtrack. It makes me wonder too if they purposely removed it. Cuz when i start noticing it, it kinda get annoying. Like in the movie Bloodsport, i read comments of people saying there's Cat sounds. And i didnt notice it at first but when i start hearing it i can no longer un-hear it lol

You seem to have a deep knowledge of NBA Jam. You should make a video, we're in need of a new comprehensive analysis from someone who's a huge fan.

Holy shit, i looked at the back cover of College Slam and it does show a picture of the backboard shattering effect. And I just saw the image you uploaded. I've played this game quite a bit and never saw it before. I'm going to have to devote the entire day to produce that effect. I've watched a lot of videos too and never seen anyone showcase it or even mention it online. If it's indeed in there, and it uses the same engine as NBA Jam then surely we can re-insert it back into Jam.

How did it look? did it look really cool? Oh and I looked at the new jordan spritesheet you made. it looks awesome. cant wait to see you insert it into the rom. I was planning on removing the crying face jordan too lol i did that as a gag and i really didnt want to but when i did it i thought the photo quality look good so i kept it but i'm gonna change that out too
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 02:05:02 pm by ponlork »

resurrecta

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2021, 04:41:49 pm »
That’s a great podcast with Fink. He sounds like he’s from Chi-Town, lol.
But it does give me ideas for my side project (https://www.youtube.com/user/Suprememk3).

Man, Kirby commenting is really cool. I mean this is like reliving a part of my youth. Those guys were larger than life back then.

I’ll test the Saturn Jap port for that now, ;). I’m curious about such details. edit: I tested and I noticed that the Saturn JAP version seems to indeed call more plays. You were right there. Also, I finally found out why I'm so bugged by the PSX audience. After nearly every bucket, the positive audience gets a high volume, sounding way to artificial. The Saturn doesn't do it which is less annoying.

I read the excerpt long time ago too. It’s amazing how ports can get complicated. But a similar thing happened to the PSX MK3 port where the source code got out in partial.

Well, not only the squeaky feet are missing… I mean, perhaps it’s me not noticing but to my knowledge I didn’t hear “With  a Rainbow” or “And it is… (good/no good)” or "airball" chants being in there. All those stuff was really what made the arcade be more action-packed than any other version ever released. I mean, sure we could probably get them through Tim but I don’t know if you can ever reach the point to add custom code for those.

Well, I wouldn’t say I have deep knowledge, just an eye for detail. And well, let’s not forget, most guys are just not devoted to the Jam/Hangtime scene as they once were. Meaning, a lot of experts probably just disappeared.

I noticed on your stream you were able to do the backboard shatter in slam, so that’s great!
If anyhow I can be of assistance, just let me know.


Edit:

Today I started checking the player size comparisons between arcade, psx and Saturn. I hope that the tip off is the regular sprite size. That's my assumption to measure the sprites. But I can't be 100% sure without having direct rom displays (they can always be scaled down for example in the tip off position without me knowing).

Anyhow, Early conclusions:

https://ibb.co/CnjDmmZ


The arcade lacks 2 pixels in height, which isn't a lot at all, while PSX and Saturn are exactly identical in height (!!).
This means that all 3 versions come close as far as player display is going.
There are some nuances and maybe fixes needed; The Saturn's head is slightly more rounded and does something to display "eyes". This is a cool touch but probably Midway dodged this in the arcade to avoid double pixelating on the zoom for the eyes.
The PSX seems to come closer to the arcade in skin tone, but it has 2 tiny flaws (notice the red in the picture), for some reason the PSX cut off players toes.
The home versions seem to have smoother bodies though than the arcade even (to my surprise). You can tell by comparing the legs.

Anyhow, since the heads seem to be close in size at first glance, that means that players can be swapped more easily between the versions. Even the hiddens (MK?, wink).

« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 08:04:16 pm by resurrecta »

niuus

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2021, 09:40:17 am »
Such an interesting conversation you have here. As a NBA Jam fan it is very interesting to know about many of the ports little details and differences, specially now that i know for a fact the PSX USA version AI was broken!

ponlork

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2021, 12:04:47 pm »
I was hoping the glass shattering effect would look and sound much cooler. it's not the same without the glass shattering sound effect or the players falling and the announcer going "Oh My!". It's those little things that make the arcade version so great. A lot of those subtle things aren't really noticeable at first, like when you're playing it you cant really put your finger on it but you feel like something is missing.

it wasn't until months into me modding it that i realize the falling effect was missing. Something tells me the reason why they made the CPU more pushy in the PSX version was because they were told that the falling effect of getting dunked on needs to go, so Chris may have tried to replicate the effect by having the CPU push players more often during dunk attempts which in return, made the CPU a little too overly aggressive and pushy.

I'm not getting why they made the glass color orange instead of white. It looks like confetti lol. don't tell me that was done on purpose where it was like changing the blood white or green. And maybe they didnt advertise it in the Sega Saturn back cover because the glass was white who knows. feels like they snuck it in there. and i was only able to produce the effect with a player who has a 9 dunk rating which i could only find 1 player with that rating so that's probably why it was a rare occurrence to see.

a lot of behind the scene stuff and politics that we just dont know about. It's unfortunate that the cheerleaders aren't animating. My guess is they used up all the memory for the jumbotron video effects and new animation and powerup effects that they couldn't include the cheerleaders animation. kinda like in the PS1 version of NBA Hangtime where the dev team in the front row isn't cheering like they supposed to. But in the N64 version they are.

And since the Saturn version doesn't have the jumbotron effect then they can add the cheerleaders animation. I've only seen video footage of the saturn version so far, i'll give it a try myself next time. But one thing i notice is there's a row in the audience where it's sliding, like their position isn't fixed and they slide around when the away team is running towards the basket. here's an example of that: https://youtu.be/klMl0oG732w?t=156

i'm hoping that's just a issue with the emulator and not how it is on real hardware. The audience sprites near the baseline also seem much more closer than the PSX version. it looks a bit odd because they appear so small next to the players when they inbound the ball:


As for the player's asset size, it may actually be the same dimensions even with the arcade. The Jordan portrait you sent me is 57x65.


Well here's the jordan portrait i use which is 56x64


If the one you're using is for the Arcade, the I believe there might be a 1px border on the top and right side that may not be seen in the game. So it's possible the asset sizes are identical.

As for the heads, the sprite sheet i sent you is 32x480 and each head is 32x32. However, there does appear to be a 1px border all around the image that is cropped off in the game. So in actuality, the PS1 version only displays 30x30. and if i have pixels at the very edge of the image, then it'll get cropped off. And i theorized that's why the toe is cropped off by 1px in the PSX version that may not be missing in the Saturn version because maybe they don't have that 1px border crop. If there's a way to remove that limitation in the PSX version to have 32x32 pixels that'll be great because when we're dealing with very low resolution images, every pixel is important. a head resized to 32x32 compared to 30x30 makes a huge difference.

Cool MK project you're working on. When I was little I used to envision fatalities in my head. Like i would picture how i would create cool looking fatalities and special moves. it's really neat that you're doing that.

I used to spend a great deal of time playing the SNES version of MK, i was a dumb kid who fell for april fool pranks thinking there's a way to get blood in the game and to access unseen secret characters. Well in 2007 i made this glitch compilation and show a way to play as Goro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXGI3uxFElo

people thought it was fake lol but i discovered it when i was a kid. What's weird is when we do fatalities on Goro or shang tsung, it would use this unused Lui Kang sound effect. I wanted to ask James MK fink about that to see what it was all about.

Well anyways, while modding NBA Jam i was thinking up ways to create fatalities in the game.
I uploaded a video to show my idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kma_S6HLBFY

It's possible to replace dunk animations with new frames and have it execute during when a player gets posterized. I would have to delete some dunks out of the game though. There are some unused dunks so I could replace it with one that's not used. I just don't know how to activate those dunks in the game yet.

There's also a unused head sprite in Jam that i can use to make the head all bloody.

well anyway, i might go MIA for a while. i'm going to focus on finishing this this release. thanks again everybody for the support
« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 12:13:30 pm by ponlork »

resurrecta

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2021, 03:51:16 pm »
You're right, the MJ is meant for the arcade. But if you compare the Blaylock I uploaded in the sendspace link, you notice I redrew what didn't get displayed on screen. The represented height on screen is less than the arcade.
I'm a bit unsure what you meant about the assets being only 1 pixel off, I mean: if the Blaylock has a lot less to show for, does that mean that assets that are in fact on the disk, are just cropped? -If so, is there a way to display them properly?

I get the 32*32 thing being reduced to 30*30, they used 2 times 1 pixel in width and height probably to transparant/empty room.

You're right about the confetti color to be annoying. But the essence we were looking for is there. I mean, to recolor the confetti ones, is of course peanuts. But yeah the missing sound is a loss. I dunno how much you can do in that department. But I notice you only grow as a coder.

Also, the audience sliding on the Saturn, kind of exists in NBA JAM TE Arcade. But the audience is well "covered" there. It's the way they programmed parallax and delta values to create depth perception. The delta values on the Saturn are just off a bit.

I'll leave you to focus on your release, peace mate.

ponlork

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2021, 06:41:09 pm »
to better explain what i'm taking about, here's a example of lebron 3/4 face view.


the photo on the left is the 32x32 sprite image, notice how i added pixels at the very bottom of the image? well if you look to the right it's a screenshot of how it looks in-game. 1px from the bottom isn't displaying. it's like that all around the corners. I'm not sure why. this is something i noticed recently. I'm going to have to go back and fix some head sprites due to this.

i uploaded a video of the backboard shattering in College Slam for those who are interested in seeing how it looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j83kdoOlno

I believe there's enough to work with to make it look really good. though i'm not really confident i can restore it, but i'll try.
College slam has some wtf moments like in the clip above at the .40 sec mark, a strange voice can be heard saying "He's in the twilight zone".
that caught me off guard, i was thinking is that from the game or did i capture something from my desktop lol

resurrecta

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2021, 07:12:58 pm »
 :crazy: :crazy: I heard that Twilight Zone stuff too. I had the same reaction, like there's some ad playing somewhere on my pc.
Anyhow, what I meant about the portraits was this:


I put arcade and PSX side by side and of course the arcade is wider, because the resolution is different.
But what I noticed is that, when you compare Pippen, it's the same head width, just the bottom is cropped out.
I matched Jordan into both. Notice the arcade has some empty space above the portrait.
On the PSX version, I guess the bottom of the jersey needs to be cropped like they did with Pippen;
The only thing I'm kind of asking is, if the images are cropped by themselves or are they cropped by code and perhaps in full on the disk?

Also, it's like no one really talks about it, but upon comparing heads... Am I the only one who noticed Olajuwon dropped his visor in all the home ports?

Also, I was messing around to see what kind of samples the arcade can handle. Asking myself the question: did the arcade have to sound that earie?

https://youtu.be/_HuH8pEvVTo

Check the swapped out on fire sound.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 06:54:46 pm by resurrecta »

ponlork

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2021, 08:57:22 am »
ah yes i think i made a mistake with the resolution. the ps1 portrait resolution is 64x56 not 56x64. So the arcade may have higher vertical resolution and that might explain why the arcade version has higher res while the ps1 is cropped.

Wow that's awesome you were able to swap out the sounds. The Arcade ver has so many sounds that is missing in the home ports. Sounds like "Shoots up a prayer!", "It is.. No Good!", Pistons up by 2! Airball! and a whole lot more.

I read this article last year about reverse engineering the Arcade version: https://fabiensanglard.net/nbajamte/

Fabien seems to be making major strides in it. I remember reading on the Arcade museum forum that the player Attributes may just be for cosmetic purposes and that the real values are located elsewhere.

I imagine that might be due to the original NBA Jam not having a number system. They had a green meter to indicate a players attributes. The PSX ver is kinda similar except that the values in the menu do control the in game attributes, however there are values above 9. Like for Shawn Kemp his dunk rating is A which is 10 in hexadecimal.

eskayelle mentioned that the Snes version has values from 0 - 255, and it may crash depending on what value and attribute is set. For Steph Curry I gave him a A for 3 pointers, but it shows as 9 in the menu.

in that arcade museum forum Fabien mentioned he was uncertain how to tell if the values affect the player, what i normally did to confirm it is by setting the player's speed. if it's set at 0 then he's very slow, when set to 9 then he's fast.

I've also read comments at that site that modding NBA Jam would require too much work. like they've been discussing it for years now about all the players and assets they have to replace. Well i think if they just fully replace one character, maybe Michael Jordan or Shaq, which may take a couple of days or less, that would be a huge milestone and it may just be enough motivation that can springboard it into action and get momentum rolling.

I also dislike how they seem to dismiss NBA Jam and talk about modding Hangtime instead. Clearly those guys at that forum aren't big NBA Jam fans. But correct me if i'm wrong, isn't NBA Jam the highest grossing Arcade game of all time? We're talking over a billion in coins.

That's like someone saying... i dont know why people want to modify Mortal Kombat II, Ultimate MK3 or MK4 is way more superior. that's like saying because Street Fighter III 3rd strike is more advanced than SFII that people would prefer 3rd strike over SF2.

Well aside from the nostalgia, the classic NBA Jam had a way of capturing people's imagination that hangtime couldn't. NBA Jam had a lot of hype moments such as smashing the backboard, better announcer, more appealing dunk animations that had people going OHH shit! i dont recall any OH SHIT moments in hangtime.

Hangtime is like Street Fighter V compared to SF4. I do like hangtime though but it just didn't capture people's imaginations like Jam did and i'm sure most people would be eager to see a NBA Jam mod than a Maximum hangtime mod.

but anywho, ive added Bradley Beal and Giannis





Bradley Beal playtest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtsXErnBw80


Giannis Antetokounmpo Playtest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMKB-z1j2Bw

Just need to add Joel Embiid, then two secret players Eminem and Snoop Dogg and that's it.

oh and i just noticed olajuwon is wearing visors in the Arcade version. I don't remember him wearing it in real life tbh, he must have stopped wearing them in the mid 90s. I also notice the Robert Horry/Sean Elliott mixup in the game too. it had something to do with Sean Elliott failing a physical that voided the trade but in the Arcade ver you had Robert Horry wearing the Pistons colors while being on the Rockets.

Sorry if anyone is reading my longwinded posts on these forums and thinking my ramblings are hard to follow. i typically threat my posts on here like they're shitposts lol i suck at grammar. when it comes to writing reviews, hack descriptions, and all that it feels like homework. but when i do release a patch or whatever i put more effort into that grammar stuff. usually i dislike writing articles, novels, resumes, reviews, readmes, changelogs, descriptions, gah so much work. proof reading, spellchecking, revising etc
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 09:04:58 am by ponlork »

resurrecta

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2021, 11:47:47 am »
Don’t worry about the long posting; for true Jam fans, I mean this is the first HQ mod. So it’s like the Walhalla.
Thanks for the appraisal on the swap. It’s just a prelude;
I know that the arcade version is a way harder mod, so much so that I nearly felt like I should get the missing arcade elements into the PSX version and not the way around. But for now, the only thing holding me back in that vision, is the resolution. I know there have game resolution hacks in the past. But let’s face it, I’m a noob.
So first things first, is trying to swap out all the matching vocals from PSX to arcade and if the right people are backing me, eventually ask Tim to just record the few that aren’t in decent quality. The effects could be swapped, but it’s low priority because it’s a lot of Googling, remastering, etc… If the vocals are in decent quality, it will remove the earie sound the majority of the people dislike.

I read Fabien’s article. He… knows his stuff. That’s all a noob like me can say. I know some of my friends took a look and told me the graphical swap they could do (if all is provided to them). And the statistics I suppose would require some hit and misses... But it’s like you said, if CodeMystics could mod the rom for the Arcade1Up, then… someone other people have that capability too… and then the ball starts rolling.

I agree to what you said about Jam VS Hangtime. I know people will always say they like to mod Hangtime because bluntly, it’s the more featured engine/game. But the tradeoff is that actually Hangtime goes away from the heart and soul from Jam. Graphically, it’s a big difference. Despite the formula being Jam-based, it’s very far away and the atmosphere just isn’t the same.
This explains why I’m so fond of the College Slam engine; surely some new features are just idiotic but it does to the Jam engine what it needed: it added new stuff like Alley-Oops in a subtle way without taking away from the core game.

I followed your Beal and Giannis progress on foot (yeah, I’m hyped). You really do awesome work. I’m in a loss for words: Christmas came too late this year :p.

The Elliott/Horry mixup got fixed by CodeMystics too. So, off topic again, it proves it’s possible.

Also, this may interest you: https://www.sendspace.com/file/1ib649
It's the shatter sound from arcade Jam.
And this is the one I believe College Slam planned on using, but didn't: https://www.sendspace.com/file/kbsoik

And perhaps the design team originally planned to add alley-oops in but never completed it:

https://www.sendspace.com/file/vofbo2

Here's a swap to psx player names and team names. 90% is there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jM2Tb7hhTw

EDIT:

I tried to help a bit more:



I'm trying to be creative to get the right angles to rip it. But it's tough because I found out that the arcade pics are regular size when the body is (over) zoomed at the bottom of the screen. I hope to provide more.

And here's an mk2 sound sample that I tried match in loudness
https://www.sendspace.com/file/kfplvj

The ninjas are pal swaps, so "if" one gets done, they all are.
Raiden, I'll attempt too but I think the lightning effect will be out of the question here due to limits...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 03:50:15 pm by resurrecta »

resurrecta

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2021, 05:59:42 pm »
Upon doing more in-depth analysis of the game, I noticed 2 line up mistakes. Gill and Hawkins need to be traded still as it was too early. And it seems Acclaim/Iguana didn't know that Blue Edwards isn't Kevin Edwards. They put Blue Edwards on the Nets while he never played there. Kevin however, did.

Edit, it seems that this isn't the only port they made the mistake to.
https://tcrf.net/Proto:NBA_Jam_Tournament_Edition_(SNES)
I found out that this page showcases the exact mistake.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 06:49:58 pm by resurrecta »

niuus

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2021, 11:19:52 pm »
oh and i just noticed olajuwon is wearing visors in the Arcade version. I don't remember him wearing it in real life tbh
Yes, he did use them with the Rockets.

resurrecta

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2021, 07:09:01 pm »
While I noticed that the Reptile rips are usable in size, I discovered that the regular heads are still smaller at max zoom in the arcade compared to the PS1.
So, as usually, I tried to circumvent ways to still get a decent usable pic for some of the players and here it is:



What I did: Enabled the big heads in arcade. Then, I resized the heads manually by removing double sprite lines rather than relying on Photoshop to just resize. This gives what comes the closest thing to the source pic.
And what's the conclusion? At first sight the pictures in the arcade seem sourced a little larger in size compared to the PS1. Even, the final confirmation will be when I actually "rip" 2 of the same heads from either system.

Also, I noticed hat the PS1 version seems to be missing "team swap" code to change line ups after quarters. Or perhaps no one shared the cheat to it?

Anyhow, in the pic you can see 2 legends: Shaq and Barkley. They can be used in the PS1 as a conclusion.
Also, I noticed the youtube channel got a new vid, so anyhow, that's the one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLCvF9ybxMI&t=7696s
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 07:51:38 pm by resurrecta »

ponlork

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2021, 06:07:59 pm »
Sorry for the absence, when i'm focused on something i tend to disappear for a while. but i'm happy to say that a new update is ready for release! i just need to work on creating a trailer and promo stuff.

I did a play test earlier today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7XCSU3TpDg

i wanted to drop the update sooner but i wasn't satisfied with how some of the mechanics were functioning. mainly the falling effects feature. But this past week I went really hard at analyzing the machine code and i've found more offsets that handles the effect.

previously i had skipped a section of code to enable the effect. the problem with that is it caused the players to collapse too often especially during block attempts and jump shots so the workaround i did was to disable the collision for those animations. though the side effect with that is players would just jump right through the opponents body.

well it's working properly now and there's no skipping any section of code this time so everything aligns properly. The timing and trajectory of the effect looks so much cooler now.

here's an example of the effect in action:
https://youtu.be/P7XCSU3TpDg?t=994

However i'm debating on what value i should adjust it as. If i set the value low then the falling effect won't occur as often but jumpshots and blocks wont trigger it. However if i set the value higher then the effect will occur often but jumpshots and blocks can trigger it.

here's an example of when the setting is high:
https://youtu.be/P7XCSU3TpDg?t=1777

it occurs much more often and i think it's more fun this way i just dislike how jumpshots/blocks causes players to collapse too. but it does look kinda cool sometimes when players run into each other and fall lol

I'm thinking about modifying the Juice option to allow players the ability to adjust this effect. 5 will be the default, and 0 will be off which is what the setting is in the stock retail game.

Hey resurrecta, i've read your posts over the weeks and that's some really good work. i'll reply/edit with a more detailed response later i just wanted to do this quick update.

i recall u mentioning something about alley oops. u know what's crazy? a few weeks ago i was play testing and i did a move where i grabbed the rebound and did a quick put back and when i release the ball, my teammate jumped in for a dunk.

now maybe i was just high but dammit i wished i had recorded that. i could have been hallucinating cuz the game plays so fast its hard to notice it. that's why i like the PS4  cuz u can rewind back 10 minutes in case u do something wild. I know elgato got something like that called flashback, i should start using that.

well i better get back to work. i wanna get this out by this week. oh and i've added Snoop Dogg:



I wanted to add Eminem and fix up some of the graphics but i'll focus on that in my next release.

Oh and have yall heard about the tonyhax exploit? aside from letting you play backup games, it also lets you play games with CDDA audio which wasn't possible before with swap tricks unless you swap with the original retail disc. I even bought the retail game off ebay for over 40$ just to get my custom soundtrack working lol

Well the difficult part is getting the save files onto a PS1 memory card, i didnt find a simple solution for this so i modded a PlayStation Underground demo disc to bundle the save files on there to make it easier for users to get the files on a ps1 memory card in order play my mod with the music. here's a video showcasing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wosZhMSgP8

What a coincidence that all this is happening now because in February i was researching for weeks trying to find a solution to get CDDA audio working on a real PS1. So for 27 years there's never been a solution other than modchips or a PSIO type device but now suddenly there is right when i'm searching for a solution? lol just lucky timing i guess

anyway, talk to yall later
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 06:49:24 pm by ponlork »

eskayelle

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2021, 08:06:50 pm »
Wow; congrats on all the great progress!   :beer:

While messing with an SNES update, I got curious and started looking under the PSX game's hood.  (With guidance,) I was able to locate images and view assets, but I couldn't figure out how to recompress images such that they save properly back into the game.

I posted a forum question on it but didn't have any luck with responses: https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=32480.0

Are you using RNC ProPackED to decompress and recompress your assets?  If not, do you have a different tool that's working all this great magic?
I once wrote a blog.  Maybe you'll find something in it useful?  https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=30593.0

resurrecta

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2021, 04:43:48 pm »
Thanks for the feedback. I know how annoying it can be to type long texts. But well, I have to here :p.
Anyhow, I'm not in charge of your project or anything like it, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
The falling effect is indeed a lot cleaner and fixed. However, I wouldn't allow it to occur after jumpshots and stuff.
Reason being is sort of what Jenovi said in his video. "All these ports are trying to simulate the arcade".
Since arcade didn't have it that extreme, I'm leaning to keep it like that.
However, if I remember correctly, the PS1 has a super shove cheat code. Like many things in these ports (remember the article),
they didn't build it fully to arcade machine code standards. So this is why the passing is annoying. Standing in front of another player will almost always pass in their hands. While arcade allows "smart" passing. I digress... so with that in mind, the shove was more than likely not a carbon copy from the arcade and they sort of figured that out and added in the super shove cheat afterwards.

Meanwhile, your new line up is a work of art. You're the first to get such clean results, keep it up.

I wonder if perhaps after all is done, you might consider a small team up to restore the correct line ups on the original release where of course I'd provide with as much as possible to take the load from you.

About the alley-oop... I'm 80% sure it was an unfinished feature in the arcade going from Jam to Jam T.E.. The proof for those are the sound samples but also, keep in mind that College Slam PSX copyrights the underlying engine to none other than Midway. It could be that at some point it had bugs and they pulled away from it.... All we know is, they definitely wanted the feature since they re-introduced it in Hangtime. I love Hangtime, don't get me wrong, but I like the way College Slam did it. The alley-oop is there but more subtle. Not like the entire game revolves around that "new feature".

So for all wanting to know more or less about how the graphics PS1/Arcade compare, it's as follows:

Arcade has the biggest quality of pictures of any version out there. But what the arcade does, is scale them down.
This scaling down you can notice because the heads look smaller than PS1/Saturn when zoomed in at max.

While PS1 has the pictures smaller, it uses the full head size when zooming in at max. This means that during regular gameplay,
people can debate which is the cleaner one (downscaled versus full pic size). However, this is the reason why the arcade big head mode looks in fact cleaner than the ones on any system.

So while the PS1 does have the smaller graphics, the only "sacrifice" is in big head modes, an "extra" in the end.

Edit: despite the ninja head rips weren't too small imo, I took the time to actually rip a frame using the same technique I did for Shaq and Barkley. I also isolated scorpion's eyes for later palette work. https://www.sendspace.com/file/f0vi17

Meanwhile I made an inspirational fake...


and also, here's an attempt at the correct "Edwards" for the Nets:
 


Another discovery I did, was that they re-statted Rodman from arcade to PS1.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:32:57 pm by resurrecta »

eskayelle

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2021, 01:03:41 pm »
Quick heads up...  Looks like there's been some chatter about arcade asm and assets.

https://www.emu-land.net/forum/index.php/topic,81910.0.html
I once wrote a blog.  Maybe you'll find something in it useful?  https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=30593.0

resurrecta

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2021, 02:03:21 pm »
Quick heads up...  Looks like there's been some chatter about arcade asm and assets.

https://www.emu-land.net/forum/index.php/topic,81910.0.html

 :woot!: :woot!: Super discovery, this rules man. Do you have any clue how to view these IMG asset formats?
They could be super useful for the psx version to switch up assets.

eskayelle

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2021, 06:59:17 pm »
Doing some tinkering.  In TileMolester, I've gotten some images to display (without proper palettes yet) using Mode 2, 8bpp linear or 15bpp.
I once wrote a blog.  Maybe you'll find something in it useful?  https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=30593.0

UltraEpicLeader100

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2021, 09:38:51 pm »
I love that you're making this mod happen. Though can I ask for music from the arcade game and maybe other Midway T Unit arcade games as either an alternate version or as a selectable soundtrack in the options?

ponlork

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Re: NBA Jam 2K20 PSone Mod
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2021, 07:25:17 pm »
Hey guys, a lot to unpack today. Version 1.1 is available for download now: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5700/

now i just needa write a news article to submit it on the main page. i hate being all grammatically proficient and stuff, feels like im back in school or something lol but it'll help with getting the word out so i gots to do it. the whole writing in 3rd person thing feels odd.

I also competed my trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQYOx-gd00s
i'm never doing a extended trailer again lol too time consuming. My previous trailer was rushed and i did it overnight. this one took me a whole week to finish. i figure i should put more effort into it this time around.

I was able to rework the engine again to prevent jumpshots and block attempts from knocking players down. So now the game plays identical to the retail release with the addition of the falling effects for slam dunks and disabling the effect for layups. However i did decrease the player's hitbox collision spacing slightly.

I don't know why but the CPU is overly aggressive and will stick on you like glue. Even when you lose the defenders they would immediately run right back in front of you at super speeds. I dont recall the arcade version being like this. So i decreased the hitbox collision a bit to make it easier to split the defense. i might revert it back to default in the future if i find a way to make the CPU less clingy. It seems to read the players input like the moment you move they move in unison. I notice in the Japanese and Pal release, there's a slight delay when the CPU reacts to your inputs so in my next release i'll focus on fixing that.

i might decrease the occurrence of the falling effect in the future too. the way it works if it the value is set to the max, players would fall immediately when their body makes contact. when decreasing the value it delays the impact of when the effect is activated which helps with timing. though decreasing the value may not trigger the effect in some instances if the defender is no longer airbone. i was watching the Arcade NBA Jam TE rev 4.0 and it appears that they might have reduced the effect almost entirely in that version as well. here's a random video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_-PUJE6D44
though it could just be the way the user is playing it. i'll have to test it for myself

Hi Ressurecta, your art is very impressive. Keep up the great work. One thing i noticed is that Vernon Maxwell is missing but he's fully programmed in the game. I can reinsert him back in by changing the Rockets squad order, though it might not have the full mixup of 20 squads available unless i can somehow add a extra player to the Rockets squad.

I noticed something while observing the crowds in the Saturn version of NBA Jam TE and College Slam. It appears that they animate in a looping pattern no matter what's going on on the floor. In the PSX version, the crowd cheers only when a bucket is made.

And wow the backboard shattering sound effect is in College Slam afterall. Now I'm wondering if they simply forgot to program it, or did they purposely leave it out to minimize videogame violence? I haven't tried the Saturn version yet but it's interesting that you note that the glass shattering is white in that version. Was it not advertised in the back cover of the game because it was too violent? where the the glass color in the PSX version has a weird mix of purple and orange so that made it acceptable for advertising? oh man all this is so confusing lol some weird politics going on

I might be able to restore the extra pixels for the heads. I remember a while back when i was working on correcting the head sprite issue where i used a unused sprite, i was able to disable the head sprites in the game and what was shown were these P1, P2, P3, and P4 boxes for the players head. It had the 1px border around it so i'm thinking that might be what's causing the head sprites to lose 1px around. Maybe if i can find the assets for those P1 boxes and replace it with a empy transparent image then maybe it'll fix it. i'm just guessing though, will try it next release. I will also focus on improving the head sprites in my next release. i would like to rework Lebron, Jordan and Kobe again.

I did update Kobe and Jordan's portrait though:



Hi eskayelle, thanks for the encouraging words. Yeah i use RNC ProPackED, were you able to get it working? I believe you have to modify the .tim files to remove the header to get it working. later i will reveal all the magic tricks and everything i done to make it work but for now i am still in the process of incrementally indexing all the players, logos, sounds, teams etc.

in the future I would like to create a tool which will allow anyone to easily insert their own players and art. i dont know much about programming yet but i plan on learning C. It's always been a childhood dream of mine to create my own PSX game. My first project will be a homebrew that contains a large database of PS1 saves, pocketstation games, and exploits like tonyhax and FreePSXBoot.

hopefully it wont be too difficult. sounds like a simple project yet useful. it sure beats making a Hello World program lol imagine all the RPG Maker, Fighter Maker, and MTV music generator saves i can bundle. though there's a good chance i might get overwhelmed and think this is way too complicated and not delve in much further but i will try though. Sometimes it just takes people trying to get things moving.

one day u see a tonyhax exploit for the ps1 and suddenly after all the attention, here comes a new FreePSXBoot exploit that doesn't require any game to boot with. And it's like that for NBA Jam TE too. First we see a Snes 2017 mod that generate interest, then we see your double Z mod, then it sparks the idea for someone to do a PS1 mod, and now it seems like momentum is picking up for a Arcade mod which is a dream for many fans.

Speaking of which, i took a gander at some of those IMG files.


and the same with you i was able to get one of the images to display without any palette information. this appears to be for the idiot boxes where it displays a popup head sprite that tells you which player you're controlling. What's interesting is it uses a different portrait image and the resolution is pretty high considering that it was scaled down quite a bit.

i'm not familiar with Mame or arcade rom hacking but i was watching this video last night of a user hacking MK3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_SHeboSuWs

maybe this might yield to some clues? that is really inspiring me to try and mess with the arcade rom. i am also itching to look into the PS1 version of NBA hangtime. Been wanting to inspect that for a while now.

hello UltraEpicLeader100. thanks, i'm glad it can be done. about the music in the game, the PS1 uses redbook CDDA audio so if i was to include a custom OST then the patch would be like 200mb lol however i did make a tutorial on how to replace the music with your own custom tracks:
https://youtu.be/UCOtPWHpfRw

well i better focus on writing a news article now. i didnt proofread above so there might be a lot of ramblings and errors lol thanks again everybody, talk to yall later
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 07:57:17 pm by ponlork »