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Author Topic: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations  (Read 33706 times)

KingMike

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #140 on: July 11, 2019, 12:14:25 pm »
Just out of my own curiosity, would you happen to know where I can find a list of these bugs present in the original game? I’ve only played through FF1 twice - the GBA version in English and the Famicom version in Japanese, and I’ve never played any other version. When I played through the FC version the only bug I noticed was that reviving spells don’t work in battle and that Tents and Cottages don’t save MP if you reset. I’m sure there’s more bugs though. In terms of gameplay balance I was expecting it to be a grind fest but it wasn’t bad at all, the toughest part was probably getting the first crystal but after that everything was smooth-sailing.

Allowing use of petrification-curing and revival spells/items was one of the options available to the player in the WonderSwan Color and PS1 versions (they had an option menu with a few choices for nostalgic or updated gameplay, including a run feature and the biggest one: whether or not to re-target attacks towards dead enemies).
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svenge

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #141 on: July 11, 2019, 12:42:30 pm »
Not that Chaos Rush would do this, but adding automatic re-targeting to FF1 and/or FF2 would be completely against the entire point of playing them on the NES/Famicom to begin with.

Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #142 on: July 11, 2019, 06:10:05 pm »
Not that Chaos Rush would do this, but adding automatic re-targeting to FF1 and/or FF2 would be completely against the entire point of playing them on the NES/Famicom to begin with.

I agree, and I have actually grown to appreciate the omission of auto-targeting. I find myself mindless mashing through battles in the games with auto-targeting (provided my party is strong enough) and FF1 and FF2 force me to strategize the distribution of my attacks on a regular basis. It makes the random encounters feel like less of a gameplay interruption because I’m actively plaything through them.

Vanya

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #143 on: July 12, 2019, 12:53:16 am »
That's one of the reasons that auto-target is an option in the MMC5 Disassembly project.
Though... I always wanted to try making auto-targetting a function of a character's intelligence.
That could be an interesting middle ground to play with.

John Enigma

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #144 on: July 12, 2019, 01:07:27 pm »
I wonder how these Final Fantasy NES translations/retranslations compare to Chicken Knife's own Dragon Quest's NES delocalizations, which are almost going for the same aim.

91-MPH

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #145 on: July 12, 2019, 02:43:53 pm »
I wonder how these Final Fantasy NES translations/retranslations compare to Chicken Knife's own Dragon Quest's NES delocalizations, which are almost going for the same aim.

For FF1 (script-wise) absolutely.

But I would (mostly) compare the other FF NES retranslations to Choppasmith's Mobile-Script Port of DQ1.

The other FF retranslations utilizes names, terminologies, and parts of the script used in later ports. But it leaves out new content of script specifically made for said ports.
Any content from the original game that did not make it to the remakes were retranslated from scratch.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 02:49:54 pm by 91-MPH »

AdamDravian

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #146 on: July 12, 2019, 07:08:01 pm »
I completely agree with ChickenKnife and NeonStreetlight. To me, the appeal of this translation is to experience the game closer to its original Japanese developers intended.

Chaos Rush, you were especially concerned about the opinions of those who grew up with FF1. Well, I was 9 years old when it came out, and I had been highly anticipating its release since I was a huge fan of "Dragon Warrior". It's the first game I ever saved up for and purchased with my own money (mostly earned from mowing lawns), as opposed to receiving it as a gift. I played through it and loved every grindy unbalanced minute. So it was a very special game for me during my formative years.

That said, not only would I not be upset at you changing the "Four Fiends" title, but I'd be happy to see it changed to something that's more accurate. Hell, I woudln't even care if you got rid of "I, Garland, will knock you all down!" I've already experienced the official US localized version of the game--many, many times. Your mod, however, offers a chance for me to experience the game in a new more authentic way, and that's what appeals to me about it.
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Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #147 on: July 12, 2019, 08:06:12 pm »
I completely agree with ChickenKnife and NeonStreetlight. To me, the appeal of this translation is to experience the game closer to its original Japanese developers intended.

Chaos Rush, you were especially concerned about the opinions of those who grew up with FF1. Well, I was 9 years old when it came out, and I had been highly anticipating its release since I was a huge fan of "Dragon Warrior". It's the first game I ever saved up for and purchased with my own money (mostly earned from mowing lawns), as opposed to receiving it as a gift. I played through it and loved every grindy unbalanced minute. So it was a very special game for me during my formative years.

That said, not only would I not be upset at you changing the "Four Fiends" title, but I'd be happy to see it changed to something that's more accurate. Hell, I woudln't even care if you got rid of "I, Garland, will knock you all down!" I've already experienced the official US localized version of the game--many, many times. Your mod, however, offers a chance for me to experience the game in a new more authentic way, and that's what appeals to me about it.

I second the Garland line. I’ve personally never understood the need to keep the infamous awkward translations in romhack translations. Not trying to start argument, just a thought. I can play the originals if I want lines like that. I’m playing the retranslation for a reason.

BlazeHeatnix

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #148 on: July 12, 2019, 08:09:15 pm »
Why are we still talking about this? It's been decided. Move on.

Yes, you can play the original if you want lines like that. But on the flipside, if you want a total retranslation with a total 100% faithful Japanese translation, there's plenty of options for that too. You don't have to play this. This isn't about keeping to canon or iconic dialog, this is about being professional. If Square had decided to retranslate this game before putting it on the NES Classic, what would they have done? The last thing any hack should do is say "Fuck Square, they don't know shit, I can do better."
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 08:46:23 pm by BlazeHeatnix »

Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #149 on: July 12, 2019, 08:53:47 pm »
Why are we still talking about this? It's been decided. Move on.

Yes, you can play the original if you want lines like that. But on the flipside, if you want a total retranslation with a total 100% faithful Japanese translation, there's plenty of options for that too. You don't have to play this. This isn't about keeping to canon or iconic dialog, this is about being professional. If Square had decided to retranslate this game before putting it on the NES Classic, what would they have done? The last thing any hack should do is say "Fuck Square, they don't know shit, I can do better."

You seem quite agitated by this discussion. I genuinely hope you’re doing well.

BlazeHeatnix

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #150 on: July 12, 2019, 09:03:13 pm »
Yes, I am agitated by people continuing to argue against ChaosRush's decisions even after he makes up his mind.

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #151 on: July 12, 2019, 09:13:56 pm »
For FF1 (script-wise) absolutely.

But I would (mostly) compare the other FF NES retranslations to Choppasmith's Mobile-Script Port of DQ1.

The other FF retranslations utilizes names, terminologies, and parts of the script used in later ports. But it leaves out new content of script specifically made for said ports.
Any content from the original game that did not make it to the remakes were retranslated from scratch.
Yep, that's pretty much how it was done. FF2 and FF3 were done by looking at the GBA and DS remake, respectively. The 2016 version of the FF3 translation (the one that was 1mb) had essentially 75% of it as a script port, and the current version is a reworked version of that. It's hard to describe the exact process of how I did them, but basically I coded tools to dump the Famicom scripts, then looked at the respective NPC's line in the remake version and removed any extra stuff that was added. In some cases I even checked the Japanese remake version on YouTube to see if the text changed between the original Famicom and the GBA/DS remake if I wasn’t sure of if a detail was added due to a script revision or just localization smoothness.

Now, FF1 is a bit of a different case because Square(-Enix) made revisions to the Japanese script twice - once in the WSC/PS1 version, and again on the GBA version, and the revisions made to FF1 were more drastic than FF2. The GBA version that was released officially in English is a translation of a heavily revised FF1 script so it's not exactly usable/abridgable to the NES like the others were because the English was written in a way to make the information presented in the Japanese GBA script flow nicely (FF2 was doable because the changes weren't as drastic).

So out of the whole trilogy, FF1 is where I'm doing an actual retranslation. Not sure if I can claim "from scratch" since I'm still looking at the GBA English script (as well as the original NES localization), but this isn't an edit of the remake script like the FF2 and FF3 ones were.

I completely agree with ChickenKnife and NeonStreetlight. To me, the appeal of this translation is to experience the game closer to its original Japanese developers intended.

Chaos Rush, you were especially concerned about the opinions of those who grew up with FF1. Well, I was 9 years old when it came out, and I had been highly anticipating its release since I was a huge fan of "Dragon Warrior". It's the first game I ever saved up for and purchased with my own money (mostly earned from mowing lawns), as opposed to receiving it as a gift. I played through it and loved every grindy unbalanced minute. So it was a very special game for me during my formative years.

That said, not only would I not be upset at you changing the "Four Fiends" title, but I'd be happy to see it changed to something that's more accurate. Hell, I woudln't even care if you got rid of "I, Garland, will knock you all down!" I've already experienced the official US localized version of the game--many, many times. Your mod, however, offers a chance for me to experience the game in a new more authentic way, and that's what appeals to me about it.

I appreciate you all voicing your opinions on this matter. I may consider making an alternate version where I make my own localization choices (Chaos Four instead of Four Fiends, "Aquair" instead of "Oxyale", no meme-Garland). I still want to make a version that adheres to canon though, because even though this will never happen, I would like to make something that Square Enix would approve of.

Here's a screenshot of my current point in the translation:

I've revised the FF4 font a little to make it easier to read for single-spaced lines (letters like p and g don't touch the next line anymore).

To prove I'm not talking out of my ass about this being a retranslation of the original text (not that anyone doesn't believe me),

Original NES line: "I feel fine now.Thank you."
Original FC line:"私も この通り 元気に なった。ありがとう....クリスタルの戦士たち!" (literal: "[me][in this way][became well].[Thank you]...[Warriors of the Crystals/Crystal Warriors]!)

I'm just using this as an example of how I'm looking at the original text, to the point of incorporating odd places in the original script where they couldn't decide if they were the Light Warriors of the Crystal Warriors. (I'm wondering if I should just straight up write "Crystal Warriors" lol)

And here is my new text editor in its current state:
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 10:57:39 pm by Chaos Rush »
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Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #152 on: July 12, 2019, 09:31:38 pm »
Yes, I am agitated by people continuing to argue against ChaosRush's decisions even after he makes up his mind.

We’re all just having a discussion here. I fully support whatever Chaos wants to do.

Yep, that's pretty much how it was done. FF2 and FF3 were done by looking at the GBA and DS remake, respectively. The 2016 version of the FF3 translation (the one that was 1mb) had essentially 75% of it as a script port, and the current version is a reworked version of that. It's hard to describe the exact process of how I did them, but basically I coded tools to dump the Famicom scripts, then looked at the respective NPC's line in the remake version and removed any extra stuff that was added. In some cases I even checked the Japanese remake version on YouTube to see if the text changed between the original Famicom and the GBA/DS remake.

Now, FF1 is a bit of a different case because Square(-Enix) made revisions to the Japanese script twice - once in the WSC/PS1 version, and again on the GBA version, and the revisions made to FF1 were more drastic than FF2. The GBA version that was released officially in English is a translation of a heavily revised FF1 script so it's not exactly usable/abridgable to the NES like the others were because the English was written in a way to make the information presented in the Japanese GBA script flow nicely (FF2 was doable because the changes weren't as drastic).

So out of the whole trilogy, FF1 is where I'm doing an actual retranslation. Not sure if I can claim "from scratch" since I'm still looking at the GBA English script (as well as the original NES localization), but this isn't an edit of the remake script like the FF2 and FF3 ones were.

I appreciate you all voicing your opinions on this matter. I may consider making an alternate version where I make my own localization choices (Chaos Four instead of Four Fiends, "Aquair" instead of "Oxyale", no meme-Garland). I still want to make a version that adheres to canon though, because even though this will never happen, I would like to make something that Square Enix would approve of.

Here's a screenshot of my current point in the translation:

I've revised the FF4 font a little to make it easier to read for single-spaced lines (letters like p and g don't touch the next line anymore).

And here is my new text editor in its current state:


Looks like some great progress so far! Can’t wait to play through when it’s all done.

vivify93

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #153 on: July 12, 2019, 10:08:09 pm »
"Crystal Warriors" works, IMO. I feel like that's a term used in some official FF... That and "Crystal-bearing Warriors" sounds a little awkward.
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BlazeHeatnix

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #154 on: July 12, 2019, 10:19:02 pm »
"Crystal Warriors" are a group in XI. But afaik, that's not a thing in other FFs.

I much prefer Light Warriors just for the sake of consistency and canon. I don't really like the term "Crystal Warriors" because...I dunno, it just doesn't sound as catchy. I do like "Crystal Bearers" though.

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #155 on: July 12, 2019, 10:54:34 pm »
Now, I don’t want to bite off more than I could chew, but would anyone want to see these FF1 and FF2 scripts ported to the WSC versions? I’ve never hacked WSC before but I’m assuming space isn’t as restricted as NES so it might not be too hard to inject the scripts into them, and looks like they already have a built-in English font as well. And then maybe someone can hack WSC FF1 or GBA FF1 and remake FF3 on it :laugh:
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Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #156 on: July 12, 2019, 10:58:28 pm »
Now, I don’t want to bite off more than I could chew, but would anyone want to see these FF1 and FF2 scripts ported to the WSC versions? I’ve never hacked WSC before but I’m assuming space isn’t as restricted as NES so it might not be too hard to inject the scripts into them, and looks like they already have a built-in English font as well. And then maybe someone can hack WSC FF1 or GBA FF1 and remake FF3 on it :laugh:

Haha focus, Chaos, focus! I’m the same way. I always want to do 5 new things before I finish the first.

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #157 on: July 12, 2019, 11:01:07 pm »
Haha focus, Chaos, focus! I’m the same way. I always want to do 5 new things before I finish the first.
:laugh: the idea just popped in my head lol. I was like “if only the GBA version didn’t have brightened colors and reworked gameplay... if only such a thing existed... oh wait”
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Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #158 on: July 12, 2019, 11:08:54 pm »
:laugh: the idea just popped in my head lol. I was like “if only the GBA version didn’t have brightened colors and reworked gameplay... if only such a thing existed... oh wait”

 :laugh: that’s a slippery slope! Only about a million versions of this game.

John Enigma

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #159 on: July 12, 2019, 11:14:49 pm »
Now, I don’t want to bite off more than I could chew, but would anyone want to see these FF1 and FF2 scripts ported to the WSC versions? I’ve never hacked WSC before but I’m assuming space isn’t as restricted as NES so it might not be too hard to inject the scripts into them, and looks like they already have a built-in English font as well. And then maybe someone can hack WSC FF1 or GBA FF1 and remake FF3 on it :laugh:
Why don't we go further: How about inserting your FF I and II scripts to the PSP ports of 'em?

After you're done, of course.