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Author Topic: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations  (Read 24269 times)

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #180 on: July 14, 2019, 10:17:52 am »
I say Beholder is the monster in the game you're translating. It's a different monster in the NES and later releases known as the Evil Eye. So Beholder gets my vote.

As for the infamous "Knock you all down" line, I think it should remain. Same with Light Warriors. There comes a point where translating to English doesn't work when done literally and official Canon terms and memorable quotes make for great localization choices. You could make a straight literal translation to make some people happy as an alternative. Maybe we should change all English dubs and subtitles in Godzilla movies to Gojira then too.


Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #181 on: July 14, 2019, 12:06:31 pm »
Alright, I’ve changed the name of the monster to Beholder, since it’s arguable that it’s not the same monster as the Evil Eye. When the script is ported the FF1&2 multicart I think it’ll have to be Evil Eye though because they changed that monster to the Evil Eye graphics in that.

With that said I’m not against using “Death Machine” instead of “Warmech” but in this case “Warmech” fits in the 10-char limit nice and cleanly without abbreviations. There’s a couple other monsters with a completely different name in the GBA localization (that have nothing to do with the NES localization name) and while it’s very few, Warmech is among that list and I feel like if I changed Warmech then I would have to change the others too, such as “F.Element[al]”(Fire Elemental) to “Fire”(ファイアー), “W.Element[al]”(Water Elemental) to “Water”(ワォーター). In those cases I think those names should only be changed in the non-canon patch I’m planning. (However, not to play devil’s advocate, but in the “canon” patch I’ve renamed Lesser Tiger to its Japanese name of Kitty Tiger purely to fit the 10-char limit)

Cavery210

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #182 on: July 14, 2019, 02:02:28 pm »
Any plans to port your script into the MSX version of FF1?

BlazeHeatnix

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #183 on: July 14, 2019, 02:28:42 pm »
Personally I think if there is a character limit you need to adhere to, then unless it's a series-wide reoccurring term, it makes a lot more sense to use something that cleanly fits in that space without abbreviations. Localization is all about economy of words and being able to work within what you're given. Besides, "Warmech" is a valid translation of "Death Machine" anyway, and it's an iconic name for the first superboss in RPG history.

Heaven Piercing Man

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #184 on: July 14, 2019, 10:20:00 pm »
And Warmech was adopted by other FF games too.

91-MPH

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #185 on: July 14, 2019, 10:22:33 pm »
Alright, I’ve changed the name of the monster to Beholder, since it’s arguable that it’s not the same monster as the Evil Eye. When the script is ported the FF1&2 multicart I think it’ll have to be Evil Eye though because they changed that monster to the Evil Eye graphics in that.

With that said I’m not against using “Death Machine” instead of “Warmech” but in this case “Warmech” fits in the 10-char limit nice and cleanly without abbreviations. There’s a couple other monsters with a completely different name in the GBA localization (that have nothing to do with the NES localization name) and while it’s very few, Warmech is among that list and I feel like if I changed Warmech then I would have to change the others too, such as “F.Element[al]”(Fire Elemental) to “Fire”(ファイアー), “W.Element[al]”(Water Elemental) to “Water”(ワォーター). In those cases I think those names should only be changed in the non-canon patch I’m planning. (However, not to play devil’s advocate, but in the “canon” patch I’ve renamed Lesser Tiger to its Japanese name of Kitty Tiger purely to fit the 10-char limit)

Why don't u just call the Lesser Tiger as "L. Tiger" or "LeserTiger" or "LessrTiger or "LsserTiger" in case u need to abridge the name to fit into the 10 letter limit.

I'm bringing this up, cause NES games use that technique when localizing a game. And its been used before in Mako's relocalized script for Earthbound Beginnings, when he transfered names and terminologies from Earthbound/Mother 2 to the first game.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 10:28:16 pm by 91-MPH »

AdamDravian

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #186 on: July 14, 2019, 11:15:04 pm »
(However, not to play devil’s advocate, but in the “canon” patch I’ve renamed Lesser Tiger to its Japanese name of Kitty Tiger purely to fit the 10-char limit)


Hahaha, I love Kitty Tiger. And it fits with the more light-hearted tone of the Japanese FF1.
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Vanya

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #187 on: July 15, 2019, 12:44:00 am »
Alright, I’ve changed the name of the monster to Beholder, since it’s arguable that it’s not the same monster as the Evil Eye. When the script is ported the FF1&2 multicart I think it’ll have to be Evil Eye though because they changed that monster to the Evil Eye graphics in that.

With that said I’m not against using “Death Machine” instead of “Warmech” but in this case “Warmech” fits in the 10-char limit nice and cleanly without abbreviations. There’s a couple other monsters with a completely different name in the GBA localization (that have nothing to do with the NES localization name) and while it’s very few, Warmech is among that list and I feel like if I changed Warmech then I would have to change the others too, such as “F.Element[al]”(Fire Elemental) to “Fire”(ファイアー), “W.Element[al]”(Water Elemental) to “Water”(ワォーター). In those cases I think those names should only be changed in the non-canon patch I’m planning. (However, not to play devil’s advocate, but in the “canon” patch I’ve renamed Lesser Tiger to its Japanese name of Kitty Tiger purely to fit the 10-char limit)

I still think Deathmech would be better and it fits in the 10 character limit.
This one is more a case of censorship than technical limits anyway.
So since you uncensored EvilEye it would make sense do the same for Warmech.

@BlazeHeatnix: I wouldn't call Warmech a valid translation, an acceptable localization, sure.
But I see it as a somewhat questionable translation, strictly speaking.

@Heaven Piercing Man: Actually, Death Machine is used throughout the series more often than Warmech.

WarMech is only used in FF1 and it's remakes; plus in FFLegend2 (SaGa II).

In the first FFLegend (SaGa) it was just called Machine.

In FF6 it had a piloted flying mech graphic and the US version called it Sky Base.

FF4 Advance had Death Machine but used a big mecha head graphic.
FF4: The After Years and FF Dimensions II used both the original name and design.
FF7 and Crisis Core both have a Death Machine that uses their standard mecha model; plus a pixel art version is used in both FF Pictologica and FF All The Bravest.
FF Crystal Chronicles The Crystal Bearers and Echoes of Time both have a mecha called Death Machine.

So clearly if they could use Death Machine, they probably would.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 01:20:00 am by Vanya »

Heaven Piercing Man

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #188 on: July 15, 2019, 03:07:50 am »
Oh, I should've explained myself better. I meant other games like FF13 have used the word "Warmech" for some mech enemies, meaning the term has earned at least some recognition.

BlazeHeatnix

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #189 on: July 15, 2019, 03:08:55 am »
So clearly if they could use Death Machine, they probably would.

Counterpoint: the GBA version of FF1 changed the enemy's name to Death Machine, but the PSP version changed it back into Warmech, despite being almost entirely based on the GBA translation. (Someone should look at the Japanese version of that re-release and see if it's still デスマシーン)

While I personally like Deathmech, Square seems to want to keep it as Warmech for that particular title. It's also worth noting that because of that, "Warmech" is the most current version of the name across all titles. So it's also likely that if the enemy made another appearance, it would be Warmech. It's kinda like the Orthros vs Ultros situation: Square desperately wanted Orthros to be the accepted name for a while, but the fans and localizers have made it clear they prefer Ultros.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 12:52:20 pm by BlazeHeatnix »

Vanya

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #190 on: July 15, 2019, 11:03:45 am »
Well, there is no accounting for individual localization jobs.

And if I was a betting man, I'd wager the Japanese versions all use Death Machine without exception.

KingMike

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #191 on: July 15, 2019, 02:44:07 pm »
Since summon names in FF3 were brought up awhile ago, I was scanning some manuals and can confirm the manual to the PSP version (the JP-exclusive physical release) does list the summon spell names separate to the associated summoned monster names.
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Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #192 on: July 15, 2019, 10:03:57 pm »
Finally got a chance to try your new FFIII translation and I noticed in the first town, the word “elder” is capitalized inside the building (“The other Elders wish to speak with you” for example) which shouldn’t be. The person outside the building gets it right with “The elders are waiting inside.”

If I’m wrong on this grammar, someone let me know, but I think if it’s not a formal name, it should be lowercase. I’ll let you know if I find anything else, although I’m not sure I have time to play through the whole game right now. I still can’t believe how fast you got this up and running.

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #193 on: July 15, 2019, 11:06:32 pm »
I think for the main FF1 patch I’ll use “Warmech” and for the alternate patch I’ll have everything closer to the original Japanese names (though not that many of them are different).

Anyways, I’ve been on vacation for the past few weeks but it’s over now, so my time suddenly got a lot more limited. Luckily FF1 doesn’t have that much text and I estimated I’m already about 63% done with the script so hopefully I can get it out within the next few weeks. Thank you all for the discussions.

Finally got a chance to try your new FFIII translation and I noticed in the first town, the word “elder” is capitalized inside the building (“The other Elders wish to speak with you” for example) which shouldn’t be. The person outside the building gets it right with “The elders are waiting inside.”

If I’m wrong on this grammar, someone let me know, but I think if it’s not a formal name, it should be lowercase. I’ll let you know if I find anything else, although I’m not sure I have time to play through the whole game right now. I still can’t believe how fast you got this up and running.
I got the impression that “Elder” is their title because those guys seem semi-religious so I intended to capitalize them (I don’t remember if FF3 DS did too). As for how I was able to get the 512kb version out so quickly 1) I already made the tools for FF3 three years ago, just did a little modification 2) I wanted to get it over with because I felt bad lol. Apologies if it seems rushed but to be fair most of the hard work was already done 3 years ago

Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #194 on: July 15, 2019, 11:45:04 pm »
I think for the main FF1 patch I’ll use “Warmech” and for the alternate patch I’ll have everything closer to the original Japanese names (though not that many of them are different).

Anyways, I’ve been on vacation for the past few weeks but it’s over now, so my time suddenly got a lot more limited. Luckily FF1 doesn’t have that much text and I estimated I’m already about 63% done with the script so hopefully I can get it out within the next few weeks. Thank you all for the discussions.
I got the impression that “Elder” is their title because those guys seem semi-religious so I intended to capitalize them (I don’t remember if FF3 DS did too). As for how I was able to get the 512kb version out so quickly 1) I already made the tools for FF3 three years ago, just did a little modification 2) I wanted to get it over with because I felt bad lol. Apologies if it seems rushed but to be fair most of the hard work was already done 3 years ago

Doesn’t feel rushed at all! Otherwise, I wouldn’t be so impressed lol. As for the elders thing, I think if their title was “The Elders” or if you’re referring to someone named “Elder Chaos Rush,” it should be capitalized. Thoughts from others?

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #195 on: July 16, 2019, 12:36:43 am »
Doesn’t feel rushed at all! Otherwise, I wouldn’t be so impressed lol. As for the elders thing, I think if their title was “The Elders” or if you’re referring to someone named “Elder Chaos Rush,” it should be capitalized. Thoughts from others?
I just did a quick check on YouTube and Elder is indeed capitalized in the remake versions so it was intentional on my part. I’m pretty sure it’s because they’re Elder as in that’s their actual title rank in their village’s culture, not elder “because they’re old”.

With that said, FF3 DS capitalizes “Elder Topapa” when other Elders refer to him, but that one NPC outside doesn’t, which transferred over to my NES version. I think I should capitalize it there for consistency.

Neon Streetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #196 on: July 16, 2019, 12:44:36 am »
I just did a quick check on YouTube and Elder is indeed capitalized in the remake versions so it was intentional on my part. I’m pretty sure it’s because they’re Elder as in that’s their actual title rank in their village’s culture, not elder “because they’re old”.

With that said, FF3 DS capitalizes “Elder Topapa” when other Elders refer to him, but that one NPC outside doesn’t, which transferred over to my NES version. I think I should capitalize it there for consistency.

Interesting! Seems like something they missed in the GBA version. I’m surprised they capitalized “elders” since you wouldn’t capitalize a word like “presidents” unless you were referring to “President Lincoln” as a formal title and name. Regardless, I think matching the GBA version and making it consistent works fine.

Burger

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #197 on: July 20, 2019, 06:36:06 am »
Same with Light Warriors.

The Japanese version DOES call them Light Warriors (hikari no senshi). The crystal warriors thing is just what the elf prince calls them in that specific bit of dialogue, it's not meant to be a title. Personally I'd go with "warriors of the crystals" in that particular scene.

Imagine if after so many years, after so many re-releases, after Dissidia, after World of FF, after all the other games in the franchise that use the names, Square decided to remake FFVI and change the party members' names to their Japanese counterparts: Tina, Mash, etc. And then after outcry over how unnecessary and alienating it was, Square's defense was "The original version(s) of FFVI are still available to play and we think if people are that attached, they won't be playing this anyway". That would be so unprofessional. Square would NEVER do that. When retranslating a game, you need to think about if the original developers had retranslated it themselves in the modern day. You need to think about what they would and wouldn't do, even with all the capital in the world.

Square does that ALL the time, to the point where extremely little in English Final Fantasy has consistent names at all. And hell, it's not THAT long ago where a rom hacker that would've suggested using names like "Firaga" in a translation hack of an FF game would've been bombarded with all kinds of accusations of unprofessional orientalism and screamed at that neither Square nor any other real translator would've ever considered using such nonsensical word salad in a translation over the sensible "Fire3".

And since you mention FFVI and its names, Square has flipflopped back and forth between calling the purple octopus the accurate "Orthros" or the inaccurate-but-it's-what-I-grew-up-on-so-it's-better "Ultros" ever since the game got released, with neither name having established itself as "what he's going to be officially known as in English from now on". The names of actual main character names may have come to be regarded as sacred, but everything else seems to be pretty free game as far as preserving the inaccuracies people are used to go.

Also, I do have to say, with the disclaimer that it's incredibly unlikely I'll ever use this patch no matter what, that I agree it seems kinda silly to push this as an "accurate representation of what the original FF1 actually was like" if you're going to toss in rewritten bits and bobs from various localizations. You mentioned earlier that you were a bit worried about people accusing you of making things up for stuff like the rat tail description etc, and I can guarantee you that the moment anyone sees Garland threatening to knock them down, they're going to spend the entire rest of their playthrough wondering whether or not this or that bit actually IS what the Japanese version said. This thing isn't going to be played by bilingual players sitting there comparing scripts, it's going to be played by English speakers that were promised a translation that actually accurately translates the original script, and they're going to get suspicious the instant they encounter a line they KNOW isn't accurate.

I mean, it's your patch, obviously, but by presenting this as an actually accurate retranslation that actually represents what the original said, you're kinda building demand for an ACTUALLY accurate retranslation that ACTUALLY represents what the original said here. And I don't think that's what you intended.

(as for the four big boss dudes, I'm pretty certain the Origins translation called them the Four Chaoses)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 06:48:33 am by Burger »

Bregalad

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #198 on: July 20, 2019, 09:51:37 am »
I can guarantee you that the moment anyone sees Garland threatening to knock them down
To known them all down.

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
« Reply #199 on: July 20, 2019, 11:48:38 am »
I mean the only thing that I’m doing to cater to canon is 1) item, monster, and location names 2) “Four Fiends” 3) “I, Garland, will knock you all down!” That’s literally it. Just those three things. Literally everything else is retranslated, and I’ll make an extra patch that doesn’t use the 3 aforementioned things and relocalizes them. I’m not even playing through the GBA version again (just checking random things on YouTube), so this isn’t an abridged script port in ways that the FF2 and FF3 patches were. And the purpose of this isn’t to be all “my translation is the true ultimate translation har har!!!”, the purpose of this is just doing this for fun as a hobby, also to completely the trilogy since I made patches for FF2 and FF3.

Anyways it’s the weekend now so I have some time to work on this. I’m gonna continue finishing this up, just doing what I’ve been doing, I’m sure it’ll ruffle some feathers and cause arguments but oh well. Again, there will be two patches, one that strictly adheres to canon terminology, and one that doesn’t (Garland won’t knock you all down in that one). Have a good weekend everyone  :)