Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations

[Neon Streetlight]

You're right. If I called them anything other than The Four Fiends it would go against everything I've done so far regarding FF2 and FF3.

Four Fiends it is. I regret bringing this up at all lol. Now I've opened a can of worms, and I could've just called them Four Fiends, not say anything, and nobody would've had an issue with it.

Like everything I've done so far, when it comes to terminology I'm going to stick with what Square Enix uses regardless of whether or not I personally agree with it.

Regardless of what you use, I'm glad you brought it up because it's an interesting thing I never knew about the game. No harm in discussing!

[Chicken Knife]

Your mind is made up now apparently but I'm gonna chime in anyway. 

My whole attraction to what you were doing was "this is different!" I got really excited to get a unique experience from your script, and that includes my expectation of new terminology across the board in the spirit of the Japanese game.

I know from my own translation experiences how much this pisses people off, but the reasons are silly. If people are attached at the hip to the old terminology, pardon the caps but--PLAY THE OLD VERSION!!!!! Why do people argue to impose old terminology on a new translation? I simply can't understand it.

If you want to do a script that uses all the old conventions and style but makes a couple improvements or decensors here and there, then do that. (it's already been done unfortunately...) But if you want to translate it in a way that reflects the meaning and feeling of the Japanese script, then go all the way with that, and ignore everyone with anything to say against it. They almost certainly won't be playing your version anyway.

And I'm not saying that the terminology needs to sound awkward. There is nearly always a way to make it sound good and preserve the meaning.

[Neon Streetlight]

Your mind is made up now apparently but I'm gonna chime in anyway. 

My whole attraction to what you were doing was "this is different!" I got really excited to get a unique experience from your script, and that includes my expectation of new terminology across the board in the spirit of the Japanese game.

I know from my own translation experiences how much this pisses people off, but the reasons are silly. If people are attached at the hip to the old terminology, pardon the caps but--PLAY THE OLD VERSION!!!!! Why do people argue to impose old terminology on a new translation? I simply can't understand it.

If you want to do a script that uses all the old conventions and style but makes a couple improvements or decensors here and there, then do that. (it's already been done unfortunately...) But if you want to translate it in a way that reflects the meaning and feeling of the Japanese script, then go all the way with that, and ignore everyone with anything to say against it. They almost certainly won't be playing your version anyway.

And I'm not saying that the terminology needs to sound awkward. There is nearly always a way to make it sound good and preserve the meaning.

Couldn't agree more here. Ultimately, there's no right answer here, but if people don't like a change, why are they playing the romhack? There are a million options when it comes to playing this game, and no one is forcing anyone to play this version.

[BlazeHeatnix]

Couldn't agree more here. Ultimately, there's no right answer here, but if people don't like a change, why are they playing the romhack? There are a million options when it comes to playing this game, and no one is forcing anyone to play this version.

People like consistency across all the versions they play. They don't like seeing something they've grown used to suddenly being questioned for reasons they might not understand if they weren't reading this thread. I can easily see someone playing this romhack, as I would, to get an idea of where FF and Square's legacy started as opposed to the many remakes out there, and for the original difficulty and uncensored graphics that other versions remove. But if they were to play it, with this script, they'd be thrown off by "The Chaos Four" or whatever. They'd think "What are those? Aren't those supposed to be the Four Fiends? I don't get it, why'd they change it?" and they'd probably accept it and move on, but that one moment would throw them off and remind them that the script they are reading is, essentially, fanfiction. It immediately destroys any notion that this is a script Square themselves would be proud of.

Imagine if after so many years, after so many re-releases, after Dissidia, after World of FF, after all the other games in the franchise that use the names, Square decided to remake FFVI and change the party members' names to their Japanese counterparts: Tina, Mash, etc. And then after outcry over how unnecessary and alienating it was, Square's defense was "The original version(s) of FFVI are still available to play and we think if people are that attached, they won't be playing this anyway". That would be so unprofessional. Square would NEVER do that. When retranslating a game, you need to think about if the original developers had retranslated it themselves in the modern day. You need to think about what they would and wouldn't do, even with all the capital in the world.

[Heaven Piercing Man]

Your mind is made up now apparently but I'm gonna chime in anyway. 

My whole attraction to what you were doing was "this is different!" I got really excited to get a unique experience from your script, and that includes my expectation of new terminology across the board in the spirit of the Japanese game.

I know from my own translation experiences how much this pisses people off, but the reasons are silly. If people are attached at the hip to the old terminology, pardon the caps but--PLAY THE OLD VERSION!!!!! Why do people argue to impose old terminology on a new translation? I simply can't understand it.

If you want to do a script that uses all the old conventions and style but makes a couple improvements or decensors here and there, then do that. (it's already been done unfortunately...) But if you want to translate it in a way that reflects the meaning and feeling of the Japanese script, then go all the way with that, and ignore everyone with anything to say against it. They almost certainly won't be playing your version anyway.

And I'm not saying that the terminology needs to sound awkward. There is nearly always a way to make it sound good and preserve the meaning.

I fully agree and that's why I can't stand the SNES FF6 cultists that get pissed and whiny when you call the spell Firaga instead of "fire 3". They sound like KJV-only fundamentalists. Go look at the GameFAQs reviews for FF6 Advance, a guy is pretty much having a tantrum over every line especially the Opera. Go to LPs at youtube for the PC or GBA version, whiners in the comments posting "iT iS cAlLeD sUpLeX" like clockwork.

[Chaos Rush]

I think the professional thing to do here is just go with Four Fiends. If the game had never been localized and people didn't have a strong attachment to it, then I would call it "the Chaos Four" (or something similar, with the word Chaos in there), but these translation projects are also meant to be to the modern English remake versions as the original Famicom versions are to the modern Japanese remake versions.

Now, I don't want to go too overboard with patch options, but if people want the name connection to Chaos maintained, I'm willing to provide that as an alternate patch option. Either that, or call them "Four Fiends" but throw in the full "Four Fiends of Chaos" somewhere just once in the script (though I worry even that would piss people off).

I didn't play my first FF game (FF1 GBA) until my late teens, beat FF1, then FF2, then read more about the series and began work on translating the Famicom FF2. That was only about 3-4 years ago. So I didn't grow up playing the series like the rest of you, and I see that people have strong feelings towards what they grew up with (I grew up playing Pokémon), so it might be difficult for me to understand some "Final Fantasy etiquette". For now, it's been made clear to me that sticking with "Four Fiends" is the safe and professional choice.

[BlazeHeatnix]

For the record, while I did grow up with FF1, I have zero attachment to the names. I didn't mean to imply that. And I don't feel super-strongly about this project nor am I trying to be hyper-critical of it...I'm only trying to be helpful.

I just think the professional thing to do with the terminology is to leave it alone except where necessary (Firaga, etc) until such time as Square decides otherwise.

[Chicken Knife]

Four Fiends vs Chaos Four is one small point. My concern was about the overall situation here. I'm pretty sure this kind of issue will come up repeatedly. Either it's going to be a faithful Japanese translation or it isn't. And the whole reason I'm taking the time to comment on this thread is that this translation seemed to be laid out as a faithful one. No one should try to please everyone with a romhack when they are pretty much the most niche thing in existence to begin with.

To the comments from BlazeHeatnix about how people would play this patch to get a taste of the original experience with uncensored graphics--those already exist. If you are talking about the original US experience anyway. The whole point of this kind of project (if I didn't catch it wrong and it really is about providing a faithful translation) would be to capture the real original experience, which is the Japanese game that Sakaguchi designed--not whatever whims were applied by the US localization team that just so happened to become nostalgic for everyone. And as far as those points about falling in line with modern localizations, that all comes down to what the purpose of the hack is. If it's to modernize, then be modern. Who cares about the Japanese script at that point? If it's to make improvements and decensor, then do that. If it's to be faithful, then be faithful, which in the case of FF1 would be something new and fascinating. No one is beholden to what Square Enix has done with the series. Again, this is only a romhack.

I'm getting a sense that Chaos Rush ultimately isn't looking to aim towards that faithful translation here, which is fine, but I would suggest that we really focus on what the goal is and not make it a popularity contest.

[Neon Streetlight]

Four Fiends vs Chaos Four is one small point. My concern was about the overall situation here. I'm pretty sure this kind of issue will come up repeatedly. Either it's going to be a faithful Japanese translation or it isn't. And the whole reason I'm taking the time to comment on this thread is that this translation seemed to be laid out as a faithful one. No one should try to please everyone with a romhack when they are pretty much the most niche thing in existence to begin with.

To the comments from BlazeHeatnix about how people would play this patch to get a taste of the original experience with uncensored graphics--those already exist. If you are talking about the original US experience anyway. The whole point of this kind of project (if I didn't catch it wrong and it really is about providing a faithful translation) would be to capture the real original experience, which is the Japanese game that Sakaguchi designed--not whatever whims were applied by the US localization team that just so happened to become nostalgic for everyone. And as far as those points about falling in line with modern localizations, that all comes down to what the purpose of the hack is. If it's to modernize, then be modern. Who cares about the Japanese script at that point? If it's to make improvements and decensor, then do that. If it's to be faithful, then be faithful, which in the case of FF1 would be something new and fascinating. No one is beholden to what Square Enix has done with the series. Again, this is only a romhack.

I'm getting a sense that Chaos Rush ultimately isn't looking to aim towards that faithful translation here, which is fine, but I would suggest that we really focus on what the goal is and not make it a popularity contest.

I'm with you, Chicken Knife. Like I said, if people are unhappy with a faithful translation, why are they playing this romhack? However, if the romhack is being described as a modern localization that aligns with more recent decisions by Square Enix, people will certainly be confused by random faithful translations thrown in seemingly at random.

If I'm choosing to play a romhack, it's because I read the description and I'm interested in what it claims to do. For Chaos Rush, how do you plan to describe this translation? What is the expectation you'll be setting with potential players? Whatever the answer, I say go with it and do what feels like it accomplishes the goal. At the end of the day, plenty of people will be thankful for your work creating it, but there will always be some people who want a few things changed here and there.

[Chaos Rush]

Four Fiends vs Chaos Four is one small point. My concern was about the overall situation here. I'm pretty sure this kind of issue will come up repeatedly. Either it's going to be a faithful Japanese translation or it isn't. And the whole reason I'm taking the time to comment on this thread is that this translation seemed to be laid out as a faithful one. No one should try to please everyone with a romhack when they are pretty much the most niche thing in existence to begin with.

To the comments from BlazeHeatnix about how people would play this patch to get a taste of the original experience with uncensored graphics--those already exist. If you are talking about the original US experience anyway. The whole point of this kind of project (if I didn't catch it wrong and it really is about providing a faithful translation) would be to capture the real original experience, which is the Japanese game that Sakaguchi designed--not whatever whims were applied by the US localization team that just so happened to become nostalgic for everyone. And as far as those points about falling in line with modern localizations, that all comes down to what the purpose of the hack is. If it's to modernize, then be modern. Who cares about the Japanese script at that point? If it's to make improvements and decensor, then do that (although it's already been done in this case.) If it's to be faithful, then be faithful, which in the case of FF1 would be something new and fascinating.

I get a clear sense Chaos Rush ultimately isn't looking to aim towards that faithful translation here, which is ultimately fine, but I would suggest that we really focus on what the goal is and not make it a popularity contest.

The goal here is be faithful but in a professional way, where these translations are as to the English remakes as the original Famicom versions are to the Japanese remakes. Item names are one thing people can debate over, but one thing that will ignore 100% whatever changes that later remakes did is NPC dialogue, which I will do my best to capture the tone of the text in the original Famicom version - such as the shop attendants being kind of lazy and casual (as opposed to FF2 and onwards when they use keigo), as well as the game being a bit sarcastic with you when you try to use magic in a place you're not supposed to:



What I'm going for here is a balance between using canon terminology and altering stuff like dialogue to be more faithful to the original (such as the menu text not taking itself too seriously). I don't know if you can read katakana but you'll notice that not all of the canon spell names are the romanized forms of the original - for instance Focus in the Japanese version is actually Shape, and Temper in the Japanese version is actually "Sutorai"(I'm assuming based off of English word 'strike'), and Confuse is "Konfu/Confu". You can see why in these cases I'm just gonna go with what Square Enix does because it would open a huge can of worms if I used the romanized versions of the original spell names.

The "Chaos vs Fiends" debate is one thing, and I only felt it was important to bring up because in the Japanese version they're the "Four Chaos" that lead up to the big bad Chaos (Garland). I can bring up a bunch of other examples that would open a whole other can of worms. In fact I'll do it right now, but I'm for sure just gonna stick with the English GBA version name for these:

FC: めざめのくすり (Wake-up Medicine)
NES: HERB
GBA: Jolt Tonic

FC: くうきのみず  (Water of Air/Air's Water)
NES: OXYALE
GBA: Oxyale

FC: スーパーモンク (Super Monk)
NES: MASTER
GBA: Master

and of course, this is up for debate but:

FC: 4つのカオス (Chaos of Four/the Chaos Four)
NES: Four Fiends
GBA: Four Fiends

Now while there might be good reason to use "the Chaos Four", then you'd expect that I'd retranslate the other terms as well such as "Water of Air" or "Super Monk", but I'm not gonna do that. Sometimes names are localized for a reason.

What it comes down to is that this is going to be to the English GBA version as the FC version is to the Japanese GBA version. Meaning that terminology will be (near)identical to the English GBA version, but NPC dialogues will be retranslated and stay true to the original FC version.

[91-MPH]

Four Fiends vs Chaos Four is one small point. My concern was about the overall situation here. I'm pretty sure this kind of issue will come up repeatedly. Either it's going to be a faithful Japanese translation or it isn't. And the whole reason I'm taking the time to comment on this thread is that this translation seemed to be laid out as a faithful one. No one should try to please everyone with a romhack when they are pretty much the most niche thing in existence to begin with.

To the comments from BlazeHeatnix about how people would play this patch to get a taste of the original experience with uncensored graphics--those already exist. If you are talking about the original US experience anyway. The whole point of this kind of project (if I didn't catch it wrong and it really is about providing a faithful translation) would be to capture the real original experience, which is the Japanese game that Sakaguchi designed--not whatever whims were applied by the US localization team that just so happened to become nostalgic for everyone. And as far as those points about falling in line with modern localizations, that all comes down to what the purpose of the hack is. If it's to modernize, then be modern. Who cares about the Japanese script at that point? If it's to make improvements and decensor, then do that. If it's to be faithful, then be faithful, which in the case of FF1 would be something new and fascinating. No one is beholden to what Square Enix has done with the series. Again, this is only a romhack.

I'm getting a sense that Chaos Rush ultimately isn't looking to aim towards that faithful translation here, which is fine, but I would suggest that we really focus on what the goal is and not make it a popularity contest.

I'm with you, Chicken Knife. Like I said, if people are unhappy with a faithful translation, why are they playing this romhack? However, if the romhack is being described as a modern localization that aligns with more recent decisions by Square Enix, people will certainly be confused by random faithful translations thrown in seemingly at random.

If I'm choosing to play a romhack, it's because I read the description and I'm interested in what it claims to do. For Chaos Rush, how do you plan to describe this translation? What is the expectation you'll be setting with potential players? Whatever the answer, I say go with it and do what feels like it accomplishes the goal. At the end of the day, plenty of people will be thankful for your work creating it, but there will always be some people who want a few things changed here and there.

whether this is a faithful translation, or a modern localization, can't we just all just agree that this project is supposed to be a merger of the two? Cause I think that was the whole point with the other translations Chaos Rush worked on.

Edit: I'm aware that my post came a minute after Chaos Rush's in case mine is irrelevant at this point. But that's what happens when u need to double check what u type.

[CoolCatBomberMan]

Honestly, so what if Chaos Rush translates this or that in whatever way he wants? Isn't this HIS project? Fan translations that maintain official terminology are pretty much the only translations I actually play, so this is right up my alley. If the same can't be said for you, that gives you no right to criticize him (even unintentionally). If it bothers you that much, what's stopping you from trying to learn how to make your own hacks?

[Heaven Piercing Man]

Chaos is not being pressured to do anything by us. It's a healthy open discussion. We know it's his call at the end. We're far past the elitism cult and the "bending over my AUTHOR GOD because i'm so grateful or else ban AND MAKE IT URSELF N00B" years. That's what gave us stuff like the J2Es, the Dejaps, and all these punched up fansubs that threatened you with bans for even wanting to download it.

Team efforts, at least in the form of civil discussions, make these projects shine, it's all out of collective love of a fandom for the game.

[Chaos Rush]

I'm glad we had this discussion. This project won't be finished for a while so we will have plenty of time to discuss whether or not the entities canonically known in English as "The Four Fiends" should be called something else, but for now I am sticking with canon (even though I personally disagree with it). I think it's the professional thing to do, and if someone were to play my translation and then play the GBA/PSP/iOS remake, then they wouldn't be thrown off by anything.

In other news, I've completed translating all menu and battle text, so now I can focus on the story dialogue. Here are some screenshots of what I worked on today. I can't guarantee that the final text will be exactly like this, as somewhere down the line I may end up having to compress.


While my FF2 and FF3 translations were somewhat of a midway point between translation and script port, for FF1 I want to make it clear (if I haven't already) that this really is a retranslation of the original Japanese Famicom script. I'm still looking at the GBA script (both Japanese and English) of course, but the Japanese GBA version added so much (moreso than FF2 and FF3) which is what became Dawn of Souls in the US and Europe, and in FF1's case the Dawn of Souls script really isn't usable in the same way that FF2's was (FF3's DS remake kept most of the NPC lines the same, but changed some stuff in the story cutscenes to develop the new characters).

With that said, I hope you guys trust me I'll try to post many screenshots so if you notice any typos or if anything sounds too "translated from Japanese-ey", please point it out.

EDIT: One thing I wanna point out, I know that official remakes uses "Warriors of Light" as opposed to "Light Warriors". In my FF3 translation I really had to squeeze every byte of space out possible, so in that I went with "Light Warriors" just to save space. For my FF1 translation, for the sake of consistency with my FF3 translation, I am going with "Light Warriors". If I can free up enough space in a future update for FF3 to use "Warriors of Light", then I will update FF1 to use "Warriors of Light" as well.

EDIT: dammit noticed my own typo, I'm aware that in the last screenshot "Princess" shouldn't be capitalized. I'm aware that royal titles are capitalized if the name is there (such as "Princess Sara") but not if the name isn't.

[Heaven Piercing Man]

Is the PSX Origins release any good? Didn't these keep the original script?

[Bregalad]

Maybe it's just me but I found this font totally unreadable when there's no blank line between the text lines (that also hold for the official FF1 translation by the way).

Is there no way to either add balnk space between lines (like the japanese original) or make a font that's more readable when written compact ?

[Vanya]

...call them "Four Fiends" but throw in the full "Four Fiends of Chaos" somewhere just once in the script...

This is what I would consider to be the best compromise.
I think having one person in the game, someone with a more formal way of speaking, should call them thus.
I think it would add a little bit of depth to the world to have a noticeable bit of formality like that.
Plus it could help emphasize the rather stark differences between formal and informal speech that Japanese has.

[Rodimus Primal]

This is what I would consider to be the best compromise.
I think having one person in the game, someone with a more formal way of speaking, should call them thus.
I think it would add a little bit of depth to the world to have a noticeable bit of formality like that.
Plus it could help emphasize the rather stark differences between formal and informal speech that Japanese has.

I like that idea quite a bit.

I know you're using the FFIV font like you did for II and III but I was wondering if you were planning on giving options later on for the NES FFI and FFVI (Chicago). If not, I can always add it to my Font Options package.

[Cristal]

Now, I don't want to go too overboard with patch options, but if people want the name connection to Chaos maintained, I'm willing to provide that as an alternate patch option. Either that, or call them "Four Fiends" but throw in the full "Four Fiends of Chaos" somewhere just once in the script (though I worry even that would piss people off).

Just my 2 cents, but I wonder how bothered people would really get over Four Fiends of Chaos. "Four Fiends" is retained, the rest is just a complement. Besides, "Chaos" is a word everyone is already familiar with because of the final boss. It's not like it's an unknown/alien term that was never used anywhere.

To me it sounds so natural that while I know I can't speak for others, I imagine most of them would not even shake while reading it.

[Chaos Rush]

Is the PSX Origins release any good? Didn't these keep the original script?

The Japanese PSX Origins release changed some lines though not as drastically as the GBA version, and while the English PSX Origins has a readable accurate script, it reads as if it was translated once and then no one revised it for smoothness/naturalness. It's accurate but doesn't read very smooth, and the Japanese PSX version (that was officially translated) has revisions to the script. I also want to do my own translation of the original FC script as a personal project, and even if I wanted to do a straight script port of the PSX version you would run into issues of space.

Maybe it's just me but I found this font totally unreadable when there's no blank line between the text lines (that also hold for the official FF1 translation by the way).

Is there no way to either add balnk space between lines (like the japanese original) or make a font that's more readable when written compact ?

I'm working off of the Japanese original which did have blank lines between text and I actually manually altered the ASM code to not do so in the NPC text boxes (you'll notice in my menu and shop screenshots that I kept the blank lines in places where the US release didn't). It's necessary for FF1 because FF1 doesn't have scrolling dialogue boxes like FF2 and FF3. Rather than implementing scrolling dialogue like FF2 (and thereby making FF2 look less "advanced"), I opted to do what US FF1 did and just use single spacing.

With that said I felt the same way about the font myself after doing more NPC dialogue, so I think I will optimize the font specifically for this translation.

This is what I would consider to be the best compromise.
I think having one person in the game, someone with a more formal way of speaking, should call them thus.
I think it would add a little bit of depth to the world to have a noticeable bit of formality like that.
Plus it could help emphasize the rather stark differences between formal and informal speech that Japanese has.

If there's a chance in the game, like one of those sages in the crescent moon lake town - I believe they talk about the Four Fiends - I think that would be a good opportunity to throw in the word Chaos somewhere.

I like that idea quite a bit.

I know you're using the FFIV font like you did for II and III but I was wondering if you were planning on giving options later on for the NES FFI and FFVI (Chicago). If not, I can always add it to my Font Options package.

Yes I'm planning that. I was messing around with fonts last night and noticed that the US FF1 font works well for single-spaced lines. I'm going to provide optional patches for the US FF1 font and the FF6 menu font (and future updates of FF2 and FF3 will do the same), but also I think I will modify the FF4 font further for this game to optimize it for single-spacing.