News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?  (Read 16461 times)

lexluthermiester

  • Submission Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« on: June 11, 2019, 08:00:29 pm »
I know this isn't hacking news, but holy hell this can not go unmentioned!
It's being renamed "Trials of Mana", which kinda fits the storyline.
This will be for the Switch and PS4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3cz1oCmQPU
Then there's the UK version(not much different if at all, but it seems you Brits are getting some Mana love too!);
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_DaAa8h7A8
I think I like the UK trailer version better as there is less narration and the mention of the Collection at the end...
Granted, there has been the fan translation out since the late 90's(Thank You Neill Corlett), so the game could be played by non-japanese readers/speakers. Still this is looking excellent! I was almost drooling when I saw those videos.
Then came this;
https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/collection-of-mana-switch/
Collection of Mana for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Game Details
 :o  :thumbsup:  :beer:  :crazy:  :woot!:
Oh yes, today is a good day!

EDIT;
A new video that I missed showing gameplay of both the remake and the original SNES title in the collection;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7KXJOYWCYw
Also has interviews with the DEVS!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 10:42:56 am by lexluthermiester »

RikohZX

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 09:02:49 pm »
Trials seems to be recompiled and playing natively on the Switch, meaning there is no ROM nor emulation at play here, but people have found ROM files though how extensively they work is unknown so far. It seems they also used a really small font which lets them fit a lot more into a text box than the fan translation could, though it also looks a bit out of place as a result and lacks colored names. The localization also uses some modern conventions and ideas, so Charlotte speaks like a child, and "God-Beasts" got swapped for the term in later localized games, "Benevoden"; these localization factors seem to be coming over intact to the modern remake releasing next year. No idea or news yet about whether the infamous number of bugs still linger in any capacity.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 09:19:26 pm by RikohZX »

vivify93

  • Submission Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
  • Guardian of Mystery
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 11:27:40 pm »
This is really exciting. The remake looks fantastic so far.
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

CrackZero

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • お前はもう死んでいる!
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2019, 12:04:14 am »
I know how you feel. I've been wanting the Seiken Densetsu collection ever since it showed up in the Japanese e-shop. Happy it finally got an official English release.
Currently working on Project Hacker: Kakusei.

Azkadellia

  • Forum Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
  • 提交向你的情妇!
    • View Profile
    • Princess Translations
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 02:57:56 am »
The SD3/ToM in the collection is a hacked ROM. There's images of it running in emulators and people have been able to run it on hardware with flashcarts.
Current Projects: On hold indefinitely.
I do the Twitter thing now: https://twitter.com/MistressSaeko (expect lots of game streaming announcements)
Mistress of the RHDN Discord server.

vivify93

  • Submission Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
  • Guardian of Mystery
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2019, 03:13:06 am »
It's pretty badass. It's basically an official fan translation, so to speak.

So, I had a peek at it... It's literally an English translation of an SNES game. Wow. Color me shocked.

Parlance's 3-player patch appears to work with Trials of Mana so far, but I haven't played through the entire game yet. Praetarius' Fix-only Patch will cause a black screen at start up, though. And presumably, as will Sin of Mana.
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

tc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1196
  • Lum Fan
    • View Profile
    • Eon Blog
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 06:36:21 am »
The SD3/ToM in the collection is a hacked ROM. There's images of it running in emulators and people have been able to run it on hardware with flashcarts.

I don't know much yet. Technically a hack of the Japanese ROM isn't the same thing as a building a brand new English ROM from the original source code.

WeebeeGeebee

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 09:56:20 am »
This makes me really curious about what of the patches on RHDN will work on the official english rom without "bricking" it... the 3 player patch, the various "hard mode" patches etc... surely also someone out there will figure out a way to extract the title screen from the official rom and transplant it back into the older fan translated english rom. I remember back when Dragon's Bretheren took the Secret of Mana 2 title screen from a German rom and made a title screen patch with that. (I also remember getting chewed out by everyone on Zophar forum for even asking for such a thing, and then the really _good_ title screen patch came out in 2015. I remember chatting with Jezze on ICQ because he was the one person besides Dragon's Bretheren that didn't chew my head off, lol).

I'd also like to see if older save files (like the ones from Fantasy Anime) will still function with the game. Or if save state and sram editors still work.

IamRifki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2019, 11:19:57 am »
Has anyone tested if the bugs in the official translation were fixed?, like the evasion and critical hits not working?

Rudy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 11:28:42 am »
It's pretty badass. It's basically an official fan translation, so to speak.

Well not really.... every game released outside of its original region would qualify to your definition

RikohZX

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2019, 12:30:26 pm »
Has anyone tested if the bugs in the official translation were fixed?, like the evasion and critical hits not working?
No bugs seem to be fixed or anything, and there's even a noticeable pair of text bugs on the character equip screens. Just as well, they expanded the ROM size to around 6MB, likely to create more headroom for the text instead of finagling with the data directly too much like the fan translation toughed through, and this is probably why the average hack of the game simply won't work and yet 3-Player apparently does as noted above.

Amusingly, there's also some weird sort of debug ROM that has the opening text crawl in Japanese and prints data when starting a game to the text box but otherwise is in English.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 12:40:29 pm by RikohZX »

vivify93

  • Submission Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
  • Guardian of Mystery
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2019, 02:43:42 pm »
This makes me really curious about what of the patches on RHDN will work on the official english rom without "bricking" it... the 3 player patch, the various "hard mode" patches etc...
I tested Praetarius' fix-only patch. It does not work. (The same would likely be the case for Sin of Mana.) The 3-player patch by Parlance seems to work with no issues, though.

Well not really.... every game released outside of its original region would qualify to your definition
I guess I meant more like... they translated an entire SNES game officially, 24 years after it was released. There's no way in hell they kept the source code around for that long. They had to have used some of our community's techniques in order to accomplish this localization.

No bugs seem to be fixed or anything, and there's even a noticeable pair of text bugs on the character equip screens. Just as well, they expanded the ROM size to around 6MB, likely to create more headroom for the text instead of finagling with the data directly too much like the fan translation toughed through, and this is probably why the average hack of the game simply won't work and yet 3-Player apparently does as noted above.

Amusingly, there's also some weird sort of debug ROM that has the opening text crawl in Japanese and prints data when starting a game to the text box but otherwise is in English.
That's the bugged copy that's been circulating. The intro is translated in the final release, which was also dumped. The reason it's not translated is it's inserted into the final as a bunch of graphics. (This is also why it uses a unique font as opposed to the HDMA font the rest of the game displays.)
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

Chronosplit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1519
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2019, 03:43:21 pm »
I tested Praetarius' fix-only patch. It does not work. (The same would likely be the case for Sin of Mana.) The 3-player patch by Parlance seems to work with no issues, though.
That's interesting.  Sin of Mana was made to be usable without the translation at all, as well as the fan translation.

I've heard talk of nothing at all working due to offsets being different (which to be fair is kinda expected), but since the 3-player patch works after all I'm wondering just what the changes were other than expanding the ROM.

RikohZX

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 04:45:10 pm »
There's no way in hell they kept the source code around for that long. They had to have used some of our community's techniques in order to accomplish this localization.
I dunno about community techniques, they didn't even know the fan translation was a thing until they started work on this themselves apparently. What I do know is that yes, Square-Enix lost the code - and had to get it from Nintendo, who happened to hold the backups all this time on their own accord. It's probably why the collection is Switch exclusive, either due to a deal over the source code or the collection being programmed entirely for Switch in mind as a result.

John Enigma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 06:00:33 pm »
Methinks that now people will start discovering, viewing, and if possible, hacking the game, now that the ROM has been extracted from the Collection, and released in the wild.

Won't be surprised that TCRF will start updating their Seiken Densetsu 3 page.

That being said, I wonder if there's going to be a list of which hacks (from here) will work, and which won't, on Trials of Mana.

vivify93

  • Submission Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
  • Guardian of Mystery
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2019, 06:24:05 pm »
Methinks that now people will start discovering, viewing, and if possible, hacking the game, now that the ROM has been extracted from the Collection, and released in the wild.

Won't be surprised that TCRF will start updating their Seiken Densetsu 3 page.

That being said, I wonder if there's going to be a list of which hacks (from here) will work, and which won't, on Trials of Mana.
I already did some testing. Praetarius' bug fix patch doesn't work, but Parlance's 3-player patch does. Not sure about the palette or sign hacks, but the title screen hacks likely won't work.
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

tc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1196
  • Lum Fan
    • View Profile
    • Eon Blog
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2019, 05:02:55 am »
The collection also contains French, Spanish, and German translations.

tvtoon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2019, 06:54:30 pm »
Some notes about the collection, for anyone interested in hacking stuff.

SeiKen DenSetsu 1: each ROM is different, despite being identical with the existing ones, in the game.

SeiKen DenSetsu 2: the french and germanic regions got differences.
The french is tagged as "1.1" in the header, but it is not the same inside the no-intro database.
Both got wrong checksums in the header, while the "BADSNES" and no-intro ones are correct.
Inside the game, both are identical up to the main menu.

SeiKen DenSetsu 3: the regions didn't exist, obviously.
Every one got wrong checksum in the header, and they didn't even changed the regional code, as all of them run in NTSC.
The english locale is the "sk3_a.smc" one, despite the naming.
It is possible to note graphical glitches in the menus, but there is a lot to discuss on the matter as it is running in "high resolution".
It is not a good idea to swap saves between these regions and the japanese: irregular characters lock the game at some dialogues, specially with the third member. Off that, everything else seems normal.
The "sk3_e.smc" looks like some intermediary english version for Europe (naming), but it is "broken": the opening is in japanese; title screen with the "of" off place; bugs at menus and dialogues, specially with named characters. It can be played but the crash probability is high in many places.

John Enigma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2019, 07:02:22 pm »
^ So Seiken Densetsu 3/Trials of Mana can't be fixed?

darthvaderx

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
    • View Profile
Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 officially outside Japan anyone?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2019, 07:12:11 pm »
I tested Praetarius' fix-only patch. It does not work.

Where can I find this patch?
See my hacks channel including some of my works:

https://www.youtube.com/user/MyWashington2/videos