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Author Topic: Next Generation's Romhacking  (Read 4524 times)

PowerPanda

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Next Generation's Romhacking
« on: May 03, 2019, 09:29:18 pm »
I had a thought today as I saw yet another interesting-looking mobile game, then passed on it because of its free-to-play, pay-to-win gameplay. I bet that next generation's emulation is going to be preserving mobile games they played as kids that no longer run on current hardware. And I bet their romhacking is going to be removing the free-to-play mechanics and hosting servers for events.

What do you think?

Jorpho

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2019, 12:19:28 am »
I think it's pretty much the end of an era.  Mobile games dependent on an online component are just pretty much unrecoverable.  Already there are probably countless iPhone or Android apps that have disappeared from the market, "unpreserved".

Perhaps in the not-too-distant future, what are regarded today as practically unsolvable decryption problems will be cracked wide open (long after they are replaced by even more unsolvable decryption problems).  But that will probably be a while off yet.
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chillyfeez

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2019, 11:10:56 am »
Well, this discussion is taking place even as Sony plans PS5.
They keep making consoles, so there will be more console software to hack. Though later-available DLC may complicate the process, it may also open doors for intrepid hackers to stick all kinds of fun new stuff into what will one day be old-favorite games.
I'd be kind of surprised if mobile emulators became the next wave of Nesticles, though. The sheer volume of titles and lack of depth per title seals that deal for me. I mean, who's gonna fondly remember the countless hours they spent on Farmville and go out of their way to relive that?
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Chronosplit

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2019, 11:57:31 am »
Streaming is going to be the huge hurdle of the future.  Should this catch on a lot of games are going to be lost in the sands of time, or best case scenario will be in a situation similar to the Satellaview.  Either way they can't be hacked/modded unless someone finds a way to physically obtain them.

I'd be kind of surprised if mobile emulators became the next wave of Nesticles, though. The sheer volume of titles and lack of depth per title seals that deal for me. I mean, who's gonna fondly remember the countless hours they spent on Farmville and go out of their way to relive that?
As much as I like my tablet, I hate to say it but the majority of mobile games that would be run in an emulator would be also found on PC.  Though there is the rare game where mobile is better (some prefer Stardew Valley's touch controls for example), if it wasn't for android emus already being very present there'd be a lack of interest for the modern times.

That said... next gen phone OSes playing the games that didn't make the jump.  I see potential for that on games that have crossplay with PC like Asmodee's board games.  And obviously whatever else we see a touch screen on would find use for them.

filler

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2019, 03:39:02 pm »
I'm just worried about what's going to happen to the huge Game Boy (line), and PSX/PS2 game libraries after NES and SNES fan translation are played out. In some ways I feel like the Final Fantasy series created this hobby by making a huge demand for the NES/SNES titles that weren't localized in the west. Who now is pining for those PlayStation games that were never localized when they were a kid? Game Boy/GBC? Game Boy Advance? PS2? Probably nobody, despite the enormous libraries and number of games that only came out in Japan.

PowerPanda

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2019, 07:02:35 pm »
I think you're right. Final Fantasy V was what clued me into emulation in the first place. But if translation has been driving romhacking for the past 2 decades, is it not unthinkable that unobtainable content (from services that are no longer up and running) would take up the flag? Do you think that someone will make a fully-complete Final Fantasy XV ISO in 20 years, when it's no longer possible to download the extra episodes from Square Enix?

I think people are seriously underestimating nostalgia though. Do I think someone would do a preservation of Farmville? Yes, yes I do.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 08:53:52 pm by PowerPanda »

POWCo-op

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2019, 07:55:35 pm »
I think there will be preservation and translation of cell phone games (there should be, as there are some unique titles on this format. There are several RPG and TRPG games only on cell phones), but very, very little interest in online servers.
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cccmar

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2019, 03:59:55 am »
I'm just worried about what's going to happen to the huge Game Boy (line), and PSX/PS2 game libraries after NES and SNES fan translation are played out. In some ways I feel like the Final Fantasy series created this hobby by making a huge demand for the NES/SNES titles that weren't localized in the west. Who now is pining for those PlayStation games that were never localized when they were a kid? Game Boy/GBC? Game Boy Advance? PS2? Probably nobody, despite the enormous libraries and number of games that only came out in Japan.

I think you're right about PSX, but I disagree about GB, as there are some translations coming out for it every year pretty much. Even for newer portables, such as DS, there is a decent number of translations. However, I do think it's probably impossible to expect the number of translations for the 32-bit consoles +++ to be as high as in the case of SNES or Genesis, due to their length and greater complexity overall, even if the number of said games is very high. As for the mobiles... I'm not sure, but I have a feeling preservation won't be as easy in this case.

FAST6191

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2019, 05:31:22 am »
I'm just worried about what's going to happen to the huge Game Boy (line), and PSX/PS2 game libraries after NES and SNES fan translation are played out. In some ways I feel like the Final Fantasy series created this hobby by making a huge demand for the NES/SNES titles that weren't localized in the west. Who now is pining for those PlayStation games that were never localized when they were a kid? Game Boy/GBC? Game Boy Advance? PS2? Probably nobody, despite the enormous libraries and number of games that only came out in Japan.

GBA and DS is more or less my thing. No shortage of people interested in those before, during and after hacks became viable there, and after those consoles no longer kept having games (granted I have long held the 3ds library was pretty poor when all was said and done). Translations might be less common, or indeed not the default activity/synonym for a lot people when you say ROM hack and their interests are said consoles, but improvements and custom versions of a whole bunch of games is common as you like. All the tools are made (pretty much only FCEUX and PC debugging tools are better), the hardware well documented, many techniques known and documented, the libraries as a whole are known and explored well enough to know many common formats and methods employed...
I am more worried about the 3ds as part of all that actually, or not as 3ds has no games.

I am less versed in the GB/GBC so tend not to get involved in the really technical side of things there but it does not do too badly either. Indeed there are plenty of people seemingly getting into exploring it and realising there is some good stuff here and there are not so many annoyances when it comes to the hardware.

Not sure what to say about the PS1. It is all pretty scattered -- I occasionally go looking or otherwise stumble upon sites and find some interesting stuff, and people clearly playing with high end techniques to find how the games work (though the differences in terms says to me they are often pretty isolated* from each other). Similarly the legacy of no standards** for rips is going to loom very large for many years to come. epsxe's plugin nightmares probably did not help matters but there are some decent debuggers.

*I will spare you the sight of me going full internet communities anthropologist but it is fascinating. The best case for me is probably pokemon vs the various consoles it was on -- the techniques are often split off and developed in some odd ways, said techniques might be developed from earlier attempts at things and never refreshed so they are still doing very hard things where others might have automated tools and workarounds, the terms coined/used are often not those the rest of the ROM hacking world or console specific scene uses, tools are also often forked before being worked up for years and never refreshed from the originals or sent back to the world at large outside of people like me going and grabbing them, there are often perceived difficulty barriers (pokemon and assembly hacking showcasing all the things I have noted thus far, at the same time as having a light assembly hacking being a fairly standard progression in it). Or what passes for Japan's and China's ROM hacking scenes, though the language barrier and respective cultures make that more... reasonable, plausible, understandable... I need a better term but hopefully you can see where I am heading.

**The Scene was a thing back on the PS1 but I guess they did not have as much clout as they did for subsequent consoles, or during the likes of the apple II days. PS1 titles also employed various amounts of anti piracy and unofficially many of the competing CD ripping and handling tools (all naturally with their own format they were pushing) so you have loads of formats, and multiple versions of games, to say nothing of people wanting to use a normal rip they might have made themselves (which is probably very accurate but nothing like the legacy rip and something most patch formats will struggle to handle well).

PS2. The difficulties of ISO distribution (I don't know what a full set is for it these days but it is still enough that you are not going to see it, or sites featuring it, be that popular any time soon) probably hurt this a lot. That said the emulation is coming along nicely, and there are people doing good work too.

I would probably be more worried about the N64. Emulation is moving again but is pretty stagnant, the hardware is a pain, the game library is ageing badly by the year (I have a fairly decent N64 library as I chucked it all in a box and thought nobody would care in the future, that said I can't play most of them as the graphics and framerate make my eyes bleed. Give me said games redone on newer systems and I will probably have a whale of a time -- was going on the Rare replay for the xbone a while back and was good stuff, I have long held Perfect Dark XBLA to be a fantastic game that has things to teach the games of today with my main issue being I never quite figured out a way to map things so the aim and side strafe move that various levels were seemingly built around felt as good as it did on the N64 pad.

Original Xbox might also be a fun one. Between ISO sizes, rips and its own legacy issue (for simple DVD modded 360s then the ripped isos will not work so various people set about redumping things). Translation wise then as it flopped in Japan there is not a lot there really (though some things will need looking at) but plenty of people made nice trainers for just about every game, and format wise it can probably pull from the PC of the time/since and other formats.

Jorpho

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2019, 11:22:03 am »
Are there still a lot of untranslated N64 games that people would be interested in playing?
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Chronosplit

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2019, 12:01:13 pm »
Are there still a lot of untranslated N64 games that people would be interested in playing?
The only thing that immediately comes to mind for me is the Robopon game, because the N64 has precious few RPGs and it's a bit of an odd bird.

Starscream

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2019, 09:33:13 pm »
There's Super Robot Wars 64 and the two Nushi Tsuri titles I find personally interesting. Compared to Saturn and PS1, the amount of exclusive Japanese titles is really small, the 3DO might have more.

tc

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2019, 01:27:53 pm »
Are there still a lot of untranslated N64 games that people would be interested in playing?

Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 isn't quite finished, I don't think.

F-Zero X Expansion Kit is an odd duck. Last time I checked the 64DD version is untranslated, while the English cart conversion doesn't save in emulators.

Text may not matter for Puyo Puyo Sun, but it's very cute and has a PC translation.

Pocket Monsters Stadium has novelty factor given the popularity of Pokemon. Even if the sequels make it redundant, easier navigation of the menus, move names, etc would be welcome.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 10:38:13 pm by tc »

Chronosplit

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2019, 12:41:38 pm »
Pocket Monsters Stadium has novelty factor given the popularity of Pokemon. Even if the sequels make it redundant, easier navigation of the menus, move names, etc would be welcome.
That's a bigger project than just one game.  In fact, the bigger job may be Pokemon Green.  Even outside of the English translation here being a snipped version of the official script (right down to censors), there's making absolutely sure both can connect.

The dissassembly most certainly can help with both I think, depending on how that works.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 03:57:52 pm by Chronosplit »

tc

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2019, 05:18:12 pm »
That's a bigger project than just one game.  In fact, the bigger job may be Pokemon Green.  Even outside of the English translation here being a snipped version of the official script (right down to censors), there's making absolutely sure both can connect.

The dissassembly most certainly can help with both I think, depending on how that works.

Right naturally a full translation needs to translate the connection function calls.

I've heard of attempts to revise Red and Blue's dialogue closer to the Japanese games. Haven't seen it for Yellow or later generations.
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/876/
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1457/

Never say never, but it's unlikely anybody's going to toss out Nintendo's work and actually reprogram Green to support English.

POWCo-op

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Re: Next Generation's Romhacking
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2019, 08:55:13 pm »
Since romhacking is different from translating (but they're related, of course) I think we can count on translators to cover really obscure material, which is the way the gods intended it.
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