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Author Topic: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions  (Read 1752 times)

PresidentLeever

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Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« on: April 23, 2019, 06:38:26 pm »
Seems no one is playing it at gfaqs so I'll ask here.

What's the recommended stat allocation and classes to avoid with this party?: Duran (main), Kevin, Hawk.
At the volcanic island cave the game suddenly got kinda tough, and I've been mostly adding points to the lowest stats to even things out so far. Haven't really grinded at all and have missed several chests (some items needed for class changing in these? maybe not relevant yet) as I keep going to the next screen right as it spawns.

"BA" attacks/cancels as Duran - Is it worth trying with these? I don't think I've managed to do it yet, trying for about 10-15 mins early on. It's hard to tell with Hawk and Kevin too I find, since the cpu allies get in the way.

Playing with the bug fix patch btw.

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CrocMagnum

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 01:00:01 pm »
...Playing with the bug fix patch btw.

You mean this patch: SEIKEN DENSETSU 3 - SIN OF MANA 1.050

I've never played it, it seems to completely overhaul the game. Also this patch is not on RHDN for some reason. I'll try it one day.

Basically only those who played this mod could give you a reliable advice. So I'll just cover the basics:

Do you plan to get a healer in your team? If no I recommend to regularly buy the special healing items at Byzel.

If you plan to get a healer: Hawk cannot heal IIRC, so it's a toss-up between Duran and Kevin:

Duran

≠ Knight (Light): his healing is multitarget,

≠ Lord (Light Dark): this healing is multitarget too. The trade-off is that the Lord has no Sabers (putting Elemental Effect on your weapons) and he has no full screen technique. That sucks,   

≠ Paladin (Light Light): single target healing. But has the unique "Saint Saber" spell. Also maybe his "Sacred Shield" finally works in the above-mentioned mod?

Kevin

all of his Light Classes can Heal: Monk (Light) Warrior Monk (Light Dark) and God Hand (Light Light). But I personally avoid to make him a healer. I prefer him to bash stuff^^,

Hawk

He's so great he could be anything depending on the class. But still he can't heal. Personally I like his Ninja classes since they're easier to handle. The Ninja Master is great for mobbing since he can multi-target his Spells. The Nightblade on the other hand has single-target Spells more suited for Bosses I feel. Finally, unlike the Ninja Master, the Nightblade has a full screen technique. A d*** fine-badass one I might add. ^^

Stat Distribution

Duran: raise his Strength whenever you can!^^ If he's your healer then raise the Stat "Spirit" too once in a while,

Kevin: STRENGTH! :P

Hawk: he's your "chest opener" (since he has the best luck in the game). You concentrate Luck and Agility. Now depending on the class combination you chose wou'll have other stats to raise too. Ex: raise "Spirit" Stat if you're a Wanderer to learn new spells,

Edit: about class & team combinations, this guide is must read: Seiken Densetsu 3 Team Formation Guide by APolaris82
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 01:15:35 pm by CrocMagnum »
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2019, 02:21:13 pm »
No it's just bug fixes. I forget exactly where I got it but here's the description:
Seiken Densetsu 3 - Fix Patch, v1.1
Praetarius

-Enabled AGL/evade for actual hit/evade mechanics instead of animation-only
-Hit up/down effects altered from no change to +10/-15 accuracy
-Increased chance for critical hits from fixed 0 to 2+LUCK
-Corrected issue with level-ups where max stats were sometimes those of later levels
-Transshape has fixed duration of 12 instead of 25 minus luck
-Heal Light no longer "heals" maxHP up/down (effect was only visible on next maxHP check)
-Prevent HP overflow from healing enemies with 65k+ HP
-Force attack recalculation on map transition to prevent wolf bonus stacking abuse
-Blaze Wall and Flame Breath no longer remove status ailments from the target (they try to inflict non-existing burn state)


Looking at a class guide on gamefaqs I thought I'd go with these:
Duran - Swordmaster (Dark+Light)
Kevin - Warrior Monk (Light+Dark)
Hawk - Nightblade (Dark+Dark)
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/snes/588648-seiken-densetsu-3/faqs/5626

I've already transitioned to the second class with each char so now I'm a bit more limited (I've kept an earlier save though). But will this be fine? Kevin has a healing spell now and I'm doing great, just finished the desert/fire cave area. But I'll have a look at that other guide before the next change.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 07:31:27 pm by PresidentLeever »
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tvtoon

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2019, 11:13:54 pm »
About stats, the limit is fixed in this game so anything you put is fine, as long as you grind enough. Personally, I think the deathblows are far more useful for enemies, so classes like Paladin are a must have.

Recca

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2019, 11:19:02 pm »
I've always had the best playthroughs with this combination:

Duran (Paladin)
Kevin (God Hand)
Hawk (Nightblade)

This will allow all party members to use their powerful charge attacks for multiple targets. In these classes, Duran learns heal light and saint saber, Kevin learns heal light, pressure point and aura wave and Hawk learns a large number of very damaging and status lowering spells. To learn these skills, Duran and Kevin should level up Spirit (PIE) and Hawk should go for Agility (AGL). As for which stats to focus more on in general, I would have to say that strength is the most useful one followed by vitality and agility. And if you ever decide to play with Angela, level up her intelligence so she can learn her attack spells. Grand Divina seems to learn the best and most amount of spells, so I would suggest that you go with that one. I never really bothered playing much with either Lise or Carlie, but I'd say that their light classes seem better spell wise (stat raising and healing ones respectively). So to summarize, I would choose all light classes, except for Hawk which is dark. It's an interesting balance. Aura Wave charges the attack gauge to full which will let Kevin unleash his powerful attack multiple times. This is why I recommend the God Hand class.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 11:27:12 pm by Recca »
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Isao Kronos

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2019, 12:27:04 am »
Time to hijack this thread for MY seiken densetsu 3 question

Which routes have the most instadeath shenanigans lategame? I want to play the game again kinda but don't want to deal with too much BS.

PresidentLeever

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2019, 06:28:26 am »
^I don't know exactly how far into it I am, around 60% I think, but that happens occasionally pretty early on because some enemies can either attack twice in a row or do one hit each in a quick row and if you heal in-between them the item or spell is just wasted. Pretty annoying but not that common. Sometimes there's also a delay on the item menu for some reason which can lead to death.

For those recommending Paladin, can I revert Duran to a light class to get it now that I've already made him a gladiator?
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CrocMagnum

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2019, 10:13:35 am »
For those recommending Paladin, can I revert Duran to a light class to get it now that I've already made him a gladiator?

Legitly? No. From the moment you’ve committed to a Class you can’t go back.

But you shouldn’t worry much. You took a "Dream Team". Seriously you’d really need to try hard to botch a playthrough with Duran+Kevin+Hawk. ^^

I’d say you’re on the right track: you said Nightblade + Warrior Monk? So taking Duran in the Dark Class is a great choice: now you have to choose between Duelist and Swordmaster. note that Duran's Dark Classes all have Sabers:

- Duelist: I’d say take him if you like an insanely damaging Full Screen Tech. Also he has the highest Magic Defense of Duran's Classes. A good thing considering his Magic Defense is pathetic,

- Swordmaster: if you want to be able to multi-target your Sabers. Making the whole Team doing Elemental Damage when needed. The gravy on the cake : since you plan to make Hawk a Nightblade, it means you can even lower the monsters Stats with his Jutsus just before…

Edit: I second what Recca said about Kevin. Considering your Team Combination, God Hand is better than Warrior Monk. Also like I said I mainly use Kevin as a damage-dealer, and sadly the Warrior Monk is the weakest (stat-wise and damage-wise) of all Kevin's final Classes.

Time to hijack this thread for MY seiken densetsu 3 question

Which routes have the most instadeath shenanigans lategame? I want to play the game again kinda but don't want to deal with too much BS.

In my experience Hawk as a main is the hardest overall. The final stretch of the game is especially exhausting. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 10:21:53 am by CrocMagnum »
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2019, 01:13:22 pm »
- Swordmaster: if you want to be able to multi-target your Sabers. Making the whole Team doing Elemental Damage when needed. The gravy on the cake : since you plan to make Hawk a Nightblade, it means you can even lower the monsters Stats with his Jutsus just before…

Sounds pretty cool, thanks. I'll consider God Hand... should I start looking for items needed to class change now? (at the ice cave after the holyland visit with flammie).

Also do I keep the hit all-special attack from a previous class when changing again (as in it is triggered before the meter is full like the first special is now)?
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CrocMagnum

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2019, 02:25:29 pm »
... should I start looking for items needed to class change now? (at the ice cave after the holyland visit with flammie).

If my memory serves you should look for "????Seeds" and plant them when you reach LV 38, not before. If you plant those seeds earlier you won't get the special item needed for your "Ultimate" Class. Also depending on your character, you "farm" them in different areas. Ex: for Duran you farm Seeds in the "Glass Desert" or the "Dragon's Hole",

THEN all characters should go to the Holy Land to make their Final Class change at the Statue.

Also do I keep the hit all-special attack from a previous class when changing again (as in it is triggered before the meter is full like the first special is now)?

Actually you never loose your Techniques (aka Deathblows). Moreover the developers of Seiken Densestu 3 had the genius idea to allow a lot of liberty about how your Party Member can use their Techs:

In the Option Menu there is a grid where you can choose the Tech level your characters will effectively use in battle: LV1 Green / LV2 Yellow/ LV3 Red,

You can even set them to not use a Tech at all! Not generally recommended but hey the option is there.

Those options are actually quite useful: indeed some characters have a more efficient LV1 Tech than a LV2 one:

Ex: Hawk LV1 Tech hits twice! When you know LV1 Techs charge up faster than LV2, well you do the math. In the end you can pump around twice more LV1 attacks than LV2s in the same period of time. :laugh:

Crazy stuff for such an oldie you can even assign a stance for your Party Members. Ex: Attack Closest Enemy / Stay close to a given party member and so on.

Seriously, I feel some gamers have so underestimated this game. I dare say as far as hack’n’slash goes, SD3 is as fun as Diablo 2. ^^
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 02:36:47 pm by CrocMagnum »
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2019, 05:31:13 pm »
Got it.

Oh yeah, I'd experimented with the AI a bit but didn't consider limiting the tech level yet (despite doing that at times in SoE). I've actually been using Hawk the most myself though (and sometimes using lvl 1 techs instead), for opening chests and because hitting twice in a row feels a bit more interesting.

I'm liking the game more after the class change, but I'm more of an SoE guy I think. And more of a pure hack 'n slash guy in general, with manual blocking/dodging and no breaks in the action. SD3 is beautiful though and has some memorable moments like the ghost ship. I'll have to try it in 2/3-player next time, last time I tried it with someone who really didn't care for it unfortunately so I'd been holding it off for years until now.

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CrocMagnum

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2019, 06:35:57 am »
...Oh yeah, I'd experimented with the AI a bit but didn't consider limiting the tech level yet (despite doing that at times in SoE). I've actually been using Hawk the most myself though (and sometimes using lvl 1 techs instead), for opening chests and because hitting twice in a row feels a bit more interesting...

If you wanna play efficiently maybe you’ll come to it. :P Setting Team Members to Tech LV1 has other uses, it's even vital in some cases:

When using LV 2/3 Techniques or even a Spell, it will often stir Bosses to launch a devastating counter-attack which could leave you party half-dead or totally wiped out (game over^^).

So setting characters to Tech LV 1 makes some Boss fights much easier.
 
"Bill & Ben" or "the Black Rabite" – the latter being an optional Boss only available on Duran's and Angela's scenarios – come to mind when it comes to nasty counters. 

Also I forgot, I like Lise (aka Riese) very much but she’s not for everyone:

Lise’s story is quite hard, almost on a par with Hawk’s scenario. So taking her as a CPU ally is a solid choice to avoid trouble on a 1st playthrough.

Depending on her Class she can boost your Stats or Lower monster’s Stats. All her Stats are great (always above average) and her Strength is stellar (not far from Duran). So she hits like a mad truck and makes Boss fights easier.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 06:47:15 am by CrocMagnum »
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2019, 07:17:02 am »
One problem is that you can't access that menu during battle unlike in the prequel so you might run into a boss or encounter where you might want it changed back.

Heh yeah I think I ran into that yesterday with an enemy, the wolf howl attack in moonreading tower. That's some serious bs! I guess there's a spell to protect against it that I can't have with this party though?

Other than that, not many problems so far. Hunting down the god-beasts. Is one of the elements generally better to use (saber+debuff) or not? Since you needed better stats for thunder debuff for example, I was thinking it was a bit better.
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CrocMagnum

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2019, 07:58:14 am »
...Heh yeah I think I ran into that yesterday with an enemy, the wolf howl attack in moonreading tower. That's some serious bs! I guess there's a spell to protect against it that I can't have with this party though?

Oh! I see you've met Dolan. The infamous Goat Boss.^^ Let's face it, no matter which order you decide to fight him, you always see the hell.^^ He’s borderline unfair, all his attacks deal massive damage, particularly the one that reduces your Max HP (Spiral Moon).

But how serendipitous! :P Lise with her Stat Boosters/Downers would have done wonders here. But they’re are consumable items which can help:

- The Specter Eye: is an anti-magic item that can save your hide in this fight. It cancels magic. It will cancel the Saber that Dolan casts on himself,

- Drake Scales: Power Up your magic (Single Target item),
 
- Poto Oil: from Byzel’s Black Market, restores the HP for the whole Team, always carry them with you before a Boss Fight, even if you have a healer. A must for this awful fight,

Also remember how I previously vouched for the Swordmaster? Well with this Class Duran will get Tree Saber, and this is the main weakness of Dolan. 

Other than that, not many problems so far. Hunting down the god-beasts. Is one of the elements generally better to use (saber+debuff) or not? Since you needed better stats for thunder debuff for example, I was thinking it was a bit better.

On your questions about God Beast:

1- God Beasts have weaknesses, for instance you’d better fight Salamander (Fire God) with Ice Spells/ Ice Sabers, etc. Obvious, 

2- never ever fight a God Beast on his Day! You see in the menu there is a Calendar showing the day of the week. Fighting Salamander on Salamander’s Day for instance is looking for trouble, because his spells will get stronger that day. Conversely fighting Salamando on his opposite day, on Undine Day, is your shortcut to success.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 11:18:55 am by CrocMagnum »
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2019, 10:56:12 am »
I was referring to a regular werewolf enemy actually but yeah, met Dolan after that. Maybe the toughest so far but I did win on the first attempt.

Thanks for the info. Mama Poto Oil just heals status ailments though..

So you can class change before Dolan? But I was only at lvl ~33-34 so would've had to grind.

I meant just in general if Thunder Saber+thunder debuff is better besides being thunder elemental, since I got the debuff later/it required higher stats. But that's good info on the calendar (except I have no idea which element some of them have been heh).

---

Is it normal for this to happen?: Boss does massive damage, party member goes down to 1 HP. I use a healing item or spell, but before it's used, the party member dies from some delayed damage or something (I can't quite tell what's going on). So it's used on another member and that party member dies.

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CrocMagnum

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2019, 12:01:34 pm »
So you can class change before Dolan? But I was only at lvl ~33-34 so would've had to grind.

With proper leveling you can Class change before killing the 8 God Beasts if I remember correctly. Also I always leave Dolan last.^^

note: you're right about the healing item. Indeed it's Poto Oil that heals the whole Party. I've edited my previous post to avoid confusion.

I meant just in general if Thunder Saber+thunder debuff is better besides being thunder elemental, since I got the debuff later/it required higher stats. But that's good info on the calendar (except I have no idea which element some of them have been heh).


Quite frankly! I have no idea.^^

Is it normal for this to happen?: Boss does massive damage, party member goes down to 1 HP. I use a healing item or spell, but before it's used, the party member dies from some delayed damage or something (I can't quite tell what's going on). So it's used on another member and that party member dies.

Yes. This also happens in the unpatched "vanilla" version of the game. A guy named praetarius3 (maybe the same modder who created that patch mentioned above) tried to give an explanation in this discussion:

Seiken Densetsu 3 - HP while dying (gamefaqs)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 12:14:27 pm by CrocMagnum »
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2019, 03:40:21 pm »
Well I haven't skipped any fights and even did some grinding to buy the best gear a few times so would have to grind quite a bit to get there it seems. But I'm almost there now, entering the glass desert (where I got insta-killed again :P)

There isn't a way to manually go out of combat mode while near enemies is there? To run past enemies when you just want to leave an area.

Thanks again.

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CrocMagnum

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2019, 07:02:25 am »
...There isn't a way to manually go out of combat mode while near enemies is there? To run past enemies when you just want to leave an area.Thanks again.

No. This is the main weakness of Combat in SD3, you cannot go out of combat manually. Many gamers have complained about this. In difficult areas, seasoned players try to reach a Gold Statue ASAP (restores HP/MP). But I bet you're already doing this. :P

One last -hopefully ^^- piece of good advice:

I told you how setting CPU controlled characters to Tech LV 1 is vital sometimes, I gave 2 reasons but I forgot one. So let’s recap:

- Some characters can Hit twice with Tech LV1 (I remember Hawk & Kevin can do this),

- Set your Team to Tech LV1 against some Bosses to avoid lethal Counter-Attacks. Like I said earlier using Tech LV2/3 or Spells can make these Bosses very angry.^^,

- When using Sabers (Spells that add Elemental Damage to your weapon) you'd better use your Main Attack or Tech LV1 Techniques. In other words Tech LV2/3 don’t take Sabers into account damage-wise,

Conclusion

1- While reading this thread I realise Seiken Denstestu 3 leans way more on gameplay than story. The talented developers of this game gave their utmost best in the Gamplay department: Techniques / Class Changing / Day & Night Cycle / Treasure Roulette / Co-op, etc. I wonder what this game would have been with a deep Story,

2- On second look I feel Hackers reading this thread can actually get a decent overview about how to make Seiken Densetsu 3 a better game. Just saying. :)

« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 07:09:51 am by CrocMagnum »
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PresidentLeever

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2019, 11:32:31 am »
Right, yeah. Beat the red-cloaked wizard yesterday, died a couple of times to that guy's rapid fire spellcasting.

It's weird that you have to not use the stronger attacks unless you've grinded/buffed & debuffed enough, but yeah I'll try sticking to LVL 1s only for the finale and see what happens. Good to know that about sabers.

Yeah I'd love to see some work on this one, and more on SoE as well.
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vivify93

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 questions
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2019, 03:12:42 pm »
No it's just bug fixes. I forget exactly where I got it but here's the description:
Seiken Densetsu 3 - Fix Patch, v1.1
Praetarius

-Enabled AGL/evade for actual hit/evade mechanics instead of animation-only
-Hit up/down effects altered from no change to +10/-15 accuracy
-Increased chance for critical hits from fixed 0 to 2+LUCK
-Corrected issue with level-ups where max stats were sometimes those of later levels
-Transshape has fixed duration of 12 instead of 25 minus luck
-Heal Light no longer "heals" maxHP up/down (effect was only visible on next maxHP check)
-Prevent HP overflow from healing enemies with 65k+ HP
-Force attack recalculation on map transition to prevent wolf bonus stacking abuse
-Blaze Wall and Flame Breath no longer remove status ailments from the target (they try to inflict non-existing burn state)

Looks like I found it here, if anyone was curious. Thanks for alerting us to it, Leever! :beer:
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