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Poll

Which of the following is the best RPG? Feel free to add your favourite by putting it in a reply.

Seiken Densetsu 3
2 (6.9%)
Secret of Mana
0 (0%)
Chrono Trigger
13 (44.8%)
Final Fantasy VI
4 (13.8%)
Earthbound/Mother 2
2 (6.9%)
Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow
1 (3.4%)
The 7th Saga
0 (0%)
Final Fantasy IV
4 (13.8%)
Breath of Fire II
0 (0%)
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
1 (3.4%)
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
0 (0%)
Fire Emblem (All of Them)
0 (0%)
Secret of Evermore
0 (0%)
Final Fantasy
0 (0%)
Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
0 (0%)
Phantasy Star
0 (0%)
Final Fantasy VII
0 (0%)
Paper Mario
0 (0%)
Final Fantasy V
0 (0%)
Phantasy Star II
0 (0%)
Pokemon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum
0 (0%)
Final Fantasy IX
0 (0%)
Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga
0 (0%)
Phantasy Star IV
1 (3.4%)
Final Fantasy Tactics
1 (3.4%)
Paper Mario The Thousand-Year Door
0 (0%)
Mother 3
0 (0%)
Pokemon Black/Black 2/White/White 2
0 (0%)
Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis
0 (0%)
Breath of Fire
0 (0%)
Lufia the Fortress of Doom
0 (0%)
Pokemon X/Y
0 (0%)
Dragon Quest/Warrior
0 (0%)
Pokemon Sun/Moon/Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon
0 (0%)
Other
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Voting closed: May 04, 2019, 01:22:56 am

Author Topic: Best Classic RPG (Heavily Revised)  (Read 2065 times)

Spooniest

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2019, 05:52:16 am »
Good rule of thumb for these types of threads: "Best" is an absolute term. Obviously, entertainment is a very subjective medium, and everyone's opinions are always going to differ. Me, I start taking things with a grain of salt the moment I see the word 'best' and find a poll.

Washing w/hot water and applying neosporin is the 'best' way to treat a cut so it won't get infected. Wearing a raincoat and using an umbrella is the 'best' way to keep dry if you have to walk out in the rain.

The answer to the question "what is the 'best' RPG," then, is far far too wide-open to be taken very seriously, especially when your list consists of 8-10 entries...there are few more than that which are excellent even from the era it's culled from alone.

I'd reccommend changing the thread title to "What is the Best RPG from this list."

chillyfeez

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2019, 07:39:48 am »
Well, to be fair, the list doesn't say "best ever."
We said that.
OP simply asked us to pick a best among those listed.
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POWCo-op

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2019, 02:07:20 pm »
I'm surprised that ffiv made it onto the list and even more surprised that somebody besides me voted for it. I think it's pretty popular in the romhacking community because of how much of a blank slate it is; and thanks to ff4kster it is VERY easy to mod, but it rarely ever makes the shortlist for best ever.

Though, to be fair, I think ffix is actually the best ever.
Well, they did release FF4 remakes and even a direct sequel to it.
Now you're playing in... three dimensions.

chillyfeez

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2019, 10:31:44 pm »
Yeah, but if you read those clickbait articles on kotaku et al that are like, "the top 20 JRPGs" or "10 best RPGs for SNES," you ALWAYS see CT and FFVI, but pretty much never see FFIV.

Also, remakes and sequels simply cannot imply popularity. You'd be nuts to say IV is more popular than VI, but VI has far less of both.
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CrocMagnum

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2019, 07:59:35 am »
Seiken Densetsu 3 & Secret of Mana - Pretty good games (counting hacks) but more hack 'n slash really. ~7.5/10...

I fully agree! Seiken Densestu 3 is truly a hack 'n' slash, at core. And well done at that.

First they are enough characters to enjoy (6), the number of class combinations is enough to keep you busy for a few weeks.^^ And the gameplay is frantic.

Cherry on the cake: most of these characters are enjoyable. Which is not always the case in your average hack 'n' slash.

I'm still thankful to "LNF Translations" after all these years, just taking a look again at the character screen translated in English brings a tear to my eye.

Edit: I just checked, still no official English translation/release for this game? Recently there's a persistent rumor though:

Square Enix Might Finally Be Bringing Secret Of Mana Collection To The West (thegamer.com)

I hope this rumor is true.^^ And I can't believe I'm the only who voted for Seiken Densetsu 3.

note: Phantasy Star IV is not in the poll? Bwah! Drama! :P
 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 08:10:52 am by CrocMagnum »
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Bregalad

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2019, 03:03:14 am »
Yeah, but if you read those clickbait articles on kotaku et al that are like, "the top 20 JRPGs" or "10 best RPGs for SNES," you ALWAYS see CT and FFVI, but pretty much never see FFIV.

Also, remakes and sequels simply cannot imply popularity. You'd be nuts to say IV is more popular than VI, but VI has far less of both.
And you have even less chances to see FF5 mentionned... but personally I way prefer FF5 over both 4 and 6. Although don't get me wrong, I love all 3, but FF5 is my favourite of the bunch... but I'd say CT is even better, although it's different.

chillyfeez

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2019, 10:05:07 am »
FFV is definitely the most engaging gameplay experience of the three, but it has the weakest story. Although I think the reason it doesn't make those lists is that it wasn't released for SNES.

I think CT is overrated. There, I said it.
It's not that I don't like it - I do, and it does deserve mention in the canon of great SNES RPGs - but it is the clear fan favorite for "best ever," and I don't think it deserves to be. Whenever I go back to replay it, I feel like it takes FOREVER to get going. The battle system is cool in essence, but there don't seem to be enough base techs to keep it all interesting deep into the game (you have all your skills by, like, midway through); and whatever algorithm determines a hit for the proximity targeting techs is frustratingly inaccurate.
What it has going for it is probably the best-overall story for a (SNES era, at least) RPG, some great sidequests that are smartly sprinkled throughout the entire game and a very rewarding New Game+ feature. I'm not sure that earns it a spot above FFVI (or Earthbound, for that matter) as best-ever (yeah, I know - I picked FFIV, but I recognize that's a matter of personal preference more than an objective judgement of quality).
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Bregalad

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2019, 11:42:40 am »
FFV is definitely the most engaging gameplay experience of the three, but it has the weakest story. Although I think the reason it doesn't make those lists is that it wasn't released for SNES.
In Europe neither of all 3 games were released so we had to resort to emulation to discover any of those, anyway. And when it comes to the story FF6 has the weakest of all.
Spoiler:
It's very generic, you're rebelling against the empire and travelling the world to find other resistants... Pretty much a copy-paste from FF2 or Star Wars. Sure the main vilain has an interesting character, moreso than in FF5, but other than that FF6's story is weaker. FF5 allows at least to travel through 2 different worlds, to travel different kind of chocobos without any annoying mode-7 effects.
But let's be honest, by modern standards all storylines are kind of weak, but back then they were amazing, as no storyline at all was the standard for most games. (FF7 being the 1st game of the series to go crazy with the storyline but that's another story - they went so far the storyline is too complex to be understandable and incoherent with itself)

Quote
I think CT is overrated. There, I said it.
I fully understand how annoying it is to have such an opinion poll and always see CT win it, without any debate. But it's still my favourite game of the bunch so I vote for it. It has more replay value than most other JRPGs, as the game itself is shorter but there's more sidequests and endings (*), so you're incitated to replay it. However I'd say playing as New Game+ is very boring as it makes the game ridiculously easy.
(*) technically it's more like a dozen of variants of the same 2 endings

Chronosplit

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2019, 07:38:46 pm »
Yeah I get the grievences about the poll, but on these forums I think they have a set limit to voting choices.  Seems that Japan agrees about this one, at least. https://www.thegamer.com/chrono-trigger-best-game-heisei-period-japan/

EvilJagaGenius

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2019, 10:32:23 pm »
Here's a thought.  I think Pokemon is a valid entry on the list, but Pokemon has gotten some drastic improvements over the years.  I wouldn't classify Pokemon R/B/Y as the best RPG, let alone best of the series.  However, if you wanted to make a case for Pokemon FR/LG, I think that'd be a valid entry on the list.  (Or maybe the Let's Go games?  If anyone who's played the games wants to chime in, feel free.  I don't have a Switch)

Heck, there's this hack too: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4147/.  And I believe there's ones to make it act like an updated Yellow as opposed to Red/Blue.

Onto thoughts on Pokemon in general.

I think Pokemon has good qualifications for being best RPG - it's simply a lot of fun, simple, and very forgiving.  Any five-year-old can pick up Pokemon, understand the mechanics and have a good time.  Catch monsters, level them up, use type weaknesses to beat NPCs, almost like it's a puzzle or rock-paper-scissors.  However, the vast library of moves you can learn and wide variety of party members keeps things from getting too boring.

Also there are some smart limits on you.  Six Pokemon to your team, as opposed to the genre-standard four.  Four moves per Pokemon, as opposed to having a character keep an ever-increasing library to use.  And (usually) only one Pokemon out at a time, as opposed to having the entire party fight at once.  You have to think about what monster and moves you want to use throughout the game, making sure you have the right tool for whatever job you're up against.  It's a very simple game, yes, but within these limits I think it does a good job of encouraging you to strategize.

Finally, it's very forgiving.  Money is easily gained, and I believe in most entries in the series, you don't lose money from losing battles.  Losing a fight isn't answered with a Game Over, just a rush to the nearest hospital.  Pokemon don't die, they just get knocked out, and revivals are free.  I find it very... comfortable, there's a lot of room to experiment and hardly any punishment for failure; and the lack of pressure helps it stay fun.

And it's always fun to beat up Team Rocket too.

Recca

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2019, 10:57:26 pm »
Well, when it comes down to facts, Chrono Trigger really is the best SNES RPG. It wins all across the board in terms of graphics, characters, music, story, battle system, etc. What I don't understand is why all those old Final Fantasy RPGs are so popular (1-6). The graphics are terrible, the monsters and their attacks aren't even animated. All they do is flash. At first glance, it looks like some kind of lame fan game. Even Phantasy Star III which was very rushed, still had some attack animations. And why are the first five Final Fantasy games all about crystals? Talk about over using the same plot elements over and over again. I pretty feel the same way about most Pokémon games as well. Bad graphics, cheesy music and the same old routine (beat the eight gym leaders and elite four to win). 7th Saga on the other hand is a greatly underrated gem. Everything about this game is fantastic, except maybe for the somewhat lame ending. It blows Final Fantasy right out of the water.
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Jorpho

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2019, 10:58:19 pm »
I think Pokemon is a valid entry on the list, but Pokemon has gotten some drastic improvements over the years.  I wouldn't classify Pokemon R/B/Y as the best RPG, let alone best of the series.  However, if you wanted to make a case for Pokemon FR/LG, I think that'd be a valid entry on the list.
Yes, Gen 1 was lacking in many ways, it seems.  I like that they made TMs have unlimited uses in the later games, because it's just not right, the way they did it originally – like, what if you use a TM on a Pokemon that was just going to learn that move on its own?  Not to mention shuffling things around in the Boxes and inventory is pretty darn tedious.  I'd still like to go back and finish Yellow someday, though.

Let's Go is apparently a radical departure.
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James5541

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2019, 03:55:12 am »
Good rule of thumb for these types of threads: "Best" is an absolute term. Obviously, entertainment is a very subjective medium, and everyone's opinions are always going to differ. Me, I start taking things with a grain of salt the moment I see the word 'best' and find a poll.

Washing w/hot water and applying neosporin is the 'best' way to treat a cut so it won't get infected. Wearing a raincoat and using an umbrella is the 'best' way to keep dry if you have to walk out in the rain.

The answer to the question "what is the 'best' RPG," then, is far far too wide-open to be taken very seriously, especially when your list consists of 8-10 entries...there are few more than that which are excellent even from the era it's culled from alone.

I'd reccommend changing the thread title to "What is the Best RPG from this list."

Thanks for the Input. I looked through the repl.ies and did some looking of my own and added many other options
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Bregalad

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Re: Best Classic RPG (Heavily Revised)
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2019, 04:13:43 am »
Quote
nd why are the first five Final Fantasy games all about crystals? Talk about over using the same plot elements over and over again.
Ha ! You obviously didn't play Final Fantasy II there's no crystal at all. And for the others, the answer is simply tradition. I don't see why having elements re-used among games in the series makes them bad - it just makes them what they are - that is, games of the same series.

Quote
Thanks for the Input. I looked through the repl.ies and did some looking of my own and added many other options
The list is now way too long. How are people supposed to play so many games in the 1st place, and pick a favourite ? I can't change my vote anyways

Seems that Japan agrees about this one, at least. https://www.thegamer.com/chrono-trigger-best-game-heisei-period-japan/
.
It's surprising. Japanese gamers had other tastes than us - for whathever reason Dragon Quest was (maybe still is) hugely popular in Japan despite the games being rather dull, and it seems that Secret of Mana, which is hugely popular in the west, went mostly unnoticed in Japan.
Here's a thought.  I think Pokemon is a valid entry on the list, [...]

I think Pokemon has good qualifications for being best RPG [...]
Now, if any game series ever was overrated, it has to be this one.

SylarDean

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2019, 06:12:44 am »
In Europe neither of all 3 games were released so we had to resort to emulation to discover any of those, anyway. And when it comes to the story FF6 has the weakest of all.
Spoiler:
It's very generic, you're rebelling against the empire and travelling the world to find other resistants... Pretty much a copy-paste from FF2 or Star Wars. Sure the main vilain has an interesting character, moreso than in FF5, but other than that FF6's story is weaker. FF5 allows at least to travel through 2 different worlds, to travel different kind of chocobos without any annoying mode-7 effects.
But let's be honest, by modern standards all storylines are kind of weak, but back then they were amazing, as no storyline at all was the standard for most games. (FF7 being the 1st game of the series to go crazy with the storyline but that's another story - they went so far the storyline is too complex to be understandable and incoherent with itself)
I fully understand how annoying it is to have such an opinion poll and always see CT win it, without any debate. But it's still my favourite game of the bunch so I vote for it. It has more replay value than most other JRPGs, as the game itself is shorter but there's more sidequests and endings (*), so you're incitated to replay it. However I'd say playing as New Game+ is very boring as it makes the game ridiculously easy.
(*) technically it's more like a dozen of variants of the same 2 endings

Lets break this down...

"FF6 story is weakest"
 
at least it was finished, and there was more to FF6's story with character back stories, plenty of hidden flashback stories, 13 characters all unique in their own ways with their own plots within the game itself that all tied in with each other in some way, the Espers story. FF5's story was such a mess and badly written. FF7's was unfinished and incomplete that's why it was such a mess and hard for people to understand after a good few translation script cuts to fit the game onto 3 discs.

"FF5 allows at least to travel through 2 different worlds, to travel different kind of chocobos without any annoying mode-7 effects."

FF6 had 3 worlds.. Esper World (which you get to play a little of, World of Balance, and World or Ruin AFTER the world gets decimated by the game's main villain using the power of the warring-triad goddess statues. It also had a chocobo mount, and 2 airships (where the airships actually had their own backstories. I get your concern about mode-7 tho.. some people loved mode-7 back then and some people just didn't.. I liked it as it added a depth to the world map on a system that just couldn't handle 3D. OH! btw.. FF5 DID use mode-7 graphics.. when you fly the airships.

"endings (*), so you're incitated to replay it. However I'd say playing as New Game+ is very boring as it makes the game ridiculously easy. (*) technically it's more like a dozen of variants of the same 2 endings."

CT actually has 13 DIFFERENT endings, and each of those 13 endings has different text variation depending on who is in your party at the end. I never liked CT at all tried to play it well over 20 times and each time I just stop cos i cant get the feel for the game, SURE! it looks nice, music is good, battle system is good but for some reason just could NOT get into it.. so gave up after trying to play it stupid amounts of times. Getting all the endings required you to have completed the game for the NewGame+ mode.. this was done to make things easier for players so they wouldn't have to worry too much about difficulty to try and get all 13 endings.. playing the same game 13 times would be a drag, thank god for YouTube.

PresidentLeever

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Re: Best Classic RPG (Heavily Revised)
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2019, 08:56:37 am »
Good idea for the revised list but I would bet most who visit here have already voted and they can't change their votes now. Also PC and western RPGs should be on there.

Mini-reviews, retro sound chip tribute, romhacks and general listage at my site: Mini-Revver.

Jorpho

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Re: Best Classic RPG (Heavily Revised)
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2019, 09:05:02 am »
Yes, I was fine with the list as it was before. Yes, it wasn't exhaustive, but such lists never are.  Oh well.
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Bregalad

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2019, 11:08:02 am »
"FF6 story is weakest"
 
at least it was finished, and there was more to FF6's story with character back stories, plenty of hidden flashback stories, 13 characters all unique in their own ways with their own plots within the game itself that all tied in with each other in some way, the Espers story. FF5's story was such a mess and badly written. FF7's was unfinished and incomplete that's why it was such a mess and hard for people to understand after a good few translation script cuts to fit the game onto 3 discs.
Well FF5 has 5 characters which are also unique in their own way, so I don't see how this makes FF6 supperior there... also some of the characters in FF6 are more developped than others, for example don't tell me that Umaro has a deep personality and that you got emotionally attached to him... I won't believe you. I didn't mean FF6 story was weak or anything, it's allright in its own, just that it's not significantly better than FF5.

Quote
FF6 had 3 worlds.. Esper World (which you get to play a little of, World of Balance, and World or Ruin AFTER the world gets decimated by the game's main villain using the power of the warring-triad goddess statues. It also had a chocobo mount, and 2 airships (where the airships actually had their own backstories. I get your concern about mode-7 tho.. some people loved mode-7 back then and some people just didn't.. I liked it as it added a depth to the world map on a system that just couldn't handle 3D. OH! btw.. FF5 DID use mode-7 graphics.. when you fly the airships.
You gotta be joking... FF5 has 3 world but the 3rd one is a mix of the first two so that's why I didn't count it. FF6's world of ruin is just the world of balance with the villages spread a different was on the world map, and a couple of newly accessible dungeons. And the world of Espers is just a village. Don't get me wrong this is all very cool - but the sense of deep exploration of two huge worlds is better in FF5. (Exploring the 3rd world (no pun intended) being less interesting since it's a mix of both you already explored). FF6's world of ruin is just like FF5 3rd world, and the 2nd world is lacking entierely.

When it comes to mode 7 it's fine for airships and look great in both FF5 and FF6. Even if I find it too easy to be lost in FF6. But I think it looks lame when riding a chocobo. That's different. You're close to the ground so the 3d effect looks terrible.

Quote
CT actually has 13 DIFFERENT endings, [...] I never liked CT at all tried to play it well over 20 times and each time I just stop cos i cant get the feel for the game
So you're lecturing me on how DIFFERENT the endings are, but never played the game more than one hour. This makes perfect sense.
Also no point to forcing you to play the game if you don't like it. The point of games is to be entertained.

POWCo-op

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Re: Best RPG
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2019, 05:15:23 pm »
What I don't understand is why all those old Final Fantasy RPGs are so popular (1-6).
Because Final Fantasy is a triple AAA series that decided to use chibi graphics. FF isn't the first rpg, but it's one of the first and it really makes you feel like you're playing Dragon Quest: The Second Story.
Now you're playing in... three dimensions.