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Author Topic: Thread suggestion: Skill offers  (Read 1614 times)

McKnight

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Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« on: April 04, 2019, 03:48:12 pm »
Anyone here think we should have a thread for people to accept requests?  I know deviantArt has groups for such a purpose regarding artwork et al, so what about here?

I know we already have a thread for hack ideas, but what about for seeking people out to actually create what you want?

Psyklax

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2019, 06:02:39 pm »
seeking people out to actually create what you want

You mean the Help Wanted section?

mz

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2019, 06:12:05 pm »
You mean the Help Wanted section?
Nope, I think he wants to offer money in exchange for work.

...But that isn't allowed on these forums, I believe.
There has to be a better life.

dACE

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2019, 06:18:35 pm »
Nope, I think he wants to offer money in exchange for work.

...But that isn't allowed on these forums, I believe.

It’s frowned upon, mainly I beleive, because the ones wanting something done for money - fail to realize how expensive such a request would be in reality.

/dACE

KingMike

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2019, 07:50:18 pm »
Because taking money for making an unauthorized ROM hack can make companies more interested in suing someone.
(makes it seem more like a professional operation than a hobby)
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018

McKnight

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2019, 09:03:53 pm »
I mean, a thread where people who feel like taking requests can advertise their skills and what they've done before.  Not necessarily for profit, either (such would be the difference between requests and commissions).

Isao Kronos

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2019, 09:13:26 pm »
Just update the help wanted rules/forum description, tbh.

mz

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2019, 12:27:24 am »
a thread where people who feel like taking requests can advertise their skills and what they've done before
OK, I'll have to be the one who says this again...

* There are no people who take requests here (unless by "request" you mean "very generous commission").
* People with skills and previous experience probably have a few millions of their own ideas to implement (and lack the time to do it, so they have even less time for yours).
* You're free to post your ideas on that awful thread that no one likes... And if by some miracle anyone thinks *they* would like to see them implemented too (and they're easy enough to do them), then you might get a low chance to see them done one day.

This community is mainly for learning and sharing our knowledge and works, not for asking other people to do some hard stuff for us (or asking other people what we should be working on...)
There has to be a better life.

Psyklax

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2019, 12:29:41 am »
taking money for making an unauthorized ROM hack can make companies more interested in suing someone

Nailed it.

This community is mainly for learning and sharing our knowledge and works, not for asking other people to do some hard stuff for us (or asking other people what we should be working on...)

Nailed it too. :)

KingMike

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2019, 01:16:33 am »
This community is mainly for learning and sharing our knowledge and works, not for asking other people to do some hard stuff for us (or asking other people what we should be working on...)
I can remember the time I was a beginner and made a particular huge "do my work for me" request.
Took 15 or so years and it was quite a pain when I sat down to do it but I eventually filled my own request. :D (as I was quickly basically told to. People who remember The Whirlpool will recall they certainly were... not kind... in their replies. To say the least.)

Could've been done much sooner but for all of us, the desire comes and goes in spurts.

I think a good question for how good a hack idea is "does it sound like something I'd like to learn how to do?"
Simple things like control changes are probably more feasible.
But porting a game from one console to another or adding functional new characters to a game, I think a good question is "is it something I'd like to spend even months or years learning how to do myself if I had to?" If not, then it probably wasn't a great idea.
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018

Vanya

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2019, 09:49:58 pm »
OK, I'll have to be the one who says this again...

Who are you speaking for and what gives you the authority to do so?


Quote
* There are no people who take requests here (unless by "request" you mean "very generous commission").

According to who and what evidence?
As rare as it may be people do sometimes take up ideas in that thread and start a project off of it.
And there are plenty of project threads that often get stuck, ask for help, and have their request filled.


Quote
* People with skills and previous experience probably have a few millions of their own ideas to implement (and lack the time to do it, so they have even less time for yours).

Sometimes those same people need a break from what they are doing.
And someone that IS busy with their projects wouldn't be looking in a request thread in the first place.
This type of reaction is the reason many people are intimidated by this community and I find that attitude counter productive in general.


Quote
* You're free to post your ideas on that awful thread that no one likes... And if by some miracle anyone thinks *they* would like to see them implemented too (and they're easy enough to do them), then you might get a low chance to see them done one day.

That "awful thread" seems just as popular as ever and has generated projects here from time to time.
Not to mention it keeps the rest of the forum generally free of request threads which was the point of creating it in the first place.
Just because *you* don't like it is no reason to talk down to another member of the community that is clearly already aware of the Hack Ideas thread and what it's for.


Quote
This community is mainly for learning and sharing our knowledge and works, not for asking other people to do some hard stuff for us (or asking other people what we should be working on...)

This community IS for learning, sharing our knowledge, and our works.
It is not for some of it's members to berate others for their suggestions.
There is nothing wrong with asking others for help on this forum as long as it is in the right place, nor is there any ban on farming for ideas either.



I think having a pinned thread where someone can *CHOOSE* to offer up their skills is a fine idea and different enough from the ideas thread and help wanted section to be of use.
And if no one uses it, it's no skin off your back or anyone else's.

FCandChill

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 11:16:35 pm »
I can remember the time I was a beginner and made a particular huge "do my work for me" request.
Took 15 or so years and it was quite a pain when I sat down to do it but I eventually filled my own request. :D (as I was quickly basically told to. People who remember The Whirlpool will recall they certainly were... not kind... in their replies. To say the least.)

I had the similar thread last year ...
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=27324.0
I finished all the ASM work in less than a year single handedly.

Psyklax

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2019, 02:22:36 am »
This type of reaction is the reason many people are intimidated by this community

According to who and what evidence? :laugh:

But seriously, if people, as you say, find this place intimidating, it's because most of us don't tolerate those who won't lift a finger to do things for themselves, wanting everything handed to them. And ESPECIALLY those who dangle cash in front of capable ROM hackers instead of rolling up their sleeves.

Moral of the story: lurk more, and read The Essence of ROM Hacking, and all will be well. :)

Vanya

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2019, 03:49:03 am »
That is no excuse.
We can deal with people wanting things done for them without being rude bastards about it.
( See SMWC's ASM Request thread for an example. )

McKnight wasn't even asking for anyone to do anything (or even mention money).
Treating him like he had was completely unnecessary.

Simply direct people to the correct resources and warnings and all will be better than well.
It avoids situations like this one.

mz

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2019, 04:07:08 am »
Vanya, I don't think I was being a rude bastard, but I'm sorry if anyone felt that way.

In any case, McKnight has mentioned money and asked people to do things for him in a few other threads, so my responses were partially influenced by that.
There has to be a better life.

abw

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2019, 04:53:17 am »
Anyone here think we should have a thread for people to accept requests?
I mean, a thread where people who feel like taking requests can advertise their skills and what they've done before.
If anybody has relevant skills they want to offer, I don't see anything wrong with making a Help Offered thread to advertise them; the odds are good that there will be somebody else around who would really appreciate a helping hand. If anybody is looking for ways to contribute, they can also check out the Help Wanted ads or start reading random threads and see what tickles their fancy. It's rare (not unheard of) to see a generic "I have skills X, please send me requests" thread, but there is an incredible amount of help already being provided on this forum in many forms on a daily basis*; people should feel free to add to it.

Or are you asking whether there should be a pinned thread dedicated to help offers?

*: A noteworthy amount of that comes from some of the people commenting on this very thread. Taking just the last 3 posters, I'm not entirely convinced that Psyklax has any projects that don't involve helping other people (;D), Vanya has been doing an awesome job with Jiggers in the FF1 MMC5 thread (:cookie:), and despite sometimes sounding like a crotchety old man (:P), actions speak louder than words and mz has been kind enough to share some resources with me that I'm sure were the product of many long hours of work (thanks again!).

filler

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2019, 05:10:33 pm »
Here are my completely unsolicited 2-cents.

For starters I think the call for tone-policing is a bit of an overreaction. This community has always been full of folks who are self-starting self-learners, and they've always had to deal with a bunch of folks who aren't, or at least haven't proven that they are. It gets tiresome, and folks get defensive.

The other side of that coin is that people earn other people's respect when they show an ability to work hard and learn on their own, and folks respond in-kind. They offer lot's of help, encouragement, etc... I think this back-and-forth is what builds actual community here, and I wouldn't discourage it. There's a good and bad side to it, but I think it's part of what makes this site and hobby unique.

As for the initial post, I question whether this is a solution looking for a problem.

I've always wanted to see effective ways to facilitate folks connecting over working on projects, and at one point I saw the community profiles as a way to do this. I've always appreciated that we have a place where we can advertise our skills, preferences, etc... (since that feature was added anyway).

The help wanted section also serves the purpose of recruiting members to work on specific projects.

So that brings me back to the question, do we have a problem of folks not knowing who else in the community has what skills and is willing to work on projects? I don't really think so.

As usual, you may need to be a bit (or a lot) proactive, but it's not hard to check recent projects to see who's been doing work recently. You can check their community profile, and reach out to them if you need to. If you're trying to recruit members for a particular project, you can make a help wanted ad as other folks have suggested. I don't really know what a request thread entails. We already have requests on the Wiki, and I sometimes check them for project inspiration, and as it's been said, we aren't taking "commissions" like art sites. It's not ethical to do this work for money unless it's officially licensed.

TL;DR I don't disagree with the sentiment assuming that I understand it as "Let's all work together on projects.", but we already do that. Nothing else required.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 05:42:17 pm by filler »

Vanya

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Re: Thread suggestion: Skill offers
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2019, 05:56:13 pm »
Vanya, I don't think I was being a rude bastard, but I'm sorry if anyone felt that way.

Nah, while, I think you were coming off a bit too strong over the situation at hand, I wasn't directing my comment to you. It was a generalization of posts I've seen in the past.



As for the initial post, I question whether this is a solution looking for a problem.

...

So that brings me back to the question, do we have a problem of folks not knowing who else in the community has what skills and is willing to work on projects? I don't really think so.

I agree that there is not necessarily a problem here we need a solution for, but suggestions aren't always predicated on a specific problem.

It would just be a different way to facilitate people getting in contact. And, it would take little effort to implement.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 06:11:09 pm by Vanya »