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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210502  (Read 503884 times)

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2040 on: April 16, 2021, 09:26:37 am »
hmsong I don't really see much of an issue with the spirits placement.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2041 on: April 16, 2021, 10:27:23 am »
hmsong I don't really see much of an issue with the spirits placement.

Well, I was experimenting with different placements, and I feel that it's easier to remember with the new placement.  But it's really up to the individual tastes.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2042 on: April 16, 2021, 05:35:21 pm »
@Queue, since Thanatos-Zero was wondering about HP modification > 999, the shot three from the bottom of this page that shows four numbers: https://manaredux.com/locations/gaias-navel/.  I'm not sure if that's a display quirk before they got stuff to work right, or if Tropicallo is actually healing that much.  It'd be a bit strange given his HP.  Now I see there's a Brambler behind him, so never mind lol

While I'm at it---just below that is an early shot of the Haunted Forest transport.  Looks like they had static versions of the tongue statues. 

Really neat screen second from the bottom here.  Think it's the Sandship: https://manaredux.com/locations/kakkara/
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 05:49:08 pm by ManaRedux »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2043 on: April 16, 2021, 06:03:16 pm »
There are still tongue-out versions there in vanilla, but that layout is a little larger than it is in the released version. And yeah, that sandship(?) variation is really neato. They only use those floor tiles in the captain's quarters.

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2044 on: April 17, 2021, 06:44:16 am »
I am not sure why none of the ranged attacks hit the Spikey Tiger when he was going to the sides to cast spells, I like stats having a noticeable purpose besides just defense, with agility implemented to enemies so they can be able to sometimes dodge or block your attacks but all my hits connected except when he moved to cast spells. Unless that's intentional.

Edit: Bitting Lizard became a lot better. Makes sense he drains your HP when he eats you and being a Lizard enemy.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 07:41:18 am by Mr X »

Spooniest

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2045 on: April 17, 2021, 08:10:03 am »
I am not sure why none of the ranged attacks hit the Spikey Tiger when he was going to the sides to cast spells, I like stats having a noticeable purpose besides just defense, with agility implemented to enemies so they can be able to sometimes dodge or block your attacks but all my hits connected except when he moved to cast spells. Unless that's intentional.

Which ranged weapon were you using?

In my experience (in vanilla, anyway), the Bow can hit him, but the Boomerang can't. And, you don't have the Whip or the Javelin yet, by that point.

I always wondered about that, myself 🤔
Yamero~~!

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2046 on: April 17, 2021, 09:57:19 am »
Which ranged weapon were you using?

In my experience (in vanilla, anyway), the Bow can hit him, but the Boomerang can't. And, you don't have the Whip or the Javelin yet, by that point.

I always wondered about that, myself 🤔

Nah in vanilla Boomerang worked too, and in Turbo worked both too until now. I still beat him just fine, but thought to mention it in case it isn't intended behavior.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2047 on: April 17, 2021, 10:14:34 am »
I am not sure why none of the ranged attacks hit the Spikey Tiger when he was going to the sides to cast spells, I like stats having a noticeable purpose besides just defense, with agility implemented to enemies so they can be able to sometimes dodge or block your attacks but all my hits connected except when he moved to cast spells. Unless that's intentional.

I actually noticed that too.  Well, only one or two attacks hit, but after that, it doesn't get hit.  I thought it was vanilla behavior or something, and then just ignored it.  I specifically aim for Spikey Tiger's head, but I kept missing.  And it didn't seem like Tiger's EVA made my shots miss (that'll make the projectile disappear before going the full distance).

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2048 on: April 17, 2021, 10:53:52 am »
Killroy doesn't feel like a complete filler boss anymore and is more fun. I like that you wont just run and long range him to death, his second phase covers for that weakness, and pulls you towards him to fight more close range instead. Save your MP for this phase mainly, and you can still use blocking for his attacks, maybe changing your other two charaters AI to be more defensive instead of physically attacking (I forgot to try this last one).

« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 10:59:11 am by Mr X »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2049 on: April 17, 2021, 02:35:49 pm »
I haven't intentionally ever made any changes that should affect Spikey Tiger, so will need to go check in on him and see what might be going on. I do think something's wrong though, as I swear something was off with projectile collision when I was testing Kilroy; couldn't really put my finger on what though. In vanilla, bosses are especially unresponsive to incoming melee damage, so it can be hard to know if you successfully hit or not.

Hit detection should be the same for the bow, boomerang and javelin; there are size differences for their projectiles, but the logic that governs the collision testing should all be the same. The biggest difference is that a hit eats the bow and javelin projectiles, while the boomerang keeps going, so for bosses with a block region (e.g. beak), a hit on a vulnerable region and block region at the same time with the boomerang will count as being blocked. This is also the rare case where the whip tends to be worse because it's so easy to hit a block region at the same time compared to other weapons (because the whip has such an enormous attack region).

I don't think Spikey Tiger has a block region, just sort of stream of consciousness talking about SoM hit detection. I really don't want to do anything that makes him harder though, as with the less effective blocking he's back to being one of the more painful boss fights already.

hmsong, that changed elemental layout will be in the next release. If you want to test ahead of time, the changes are really simple:
Code: [Select]
%OFF% charControl_pattern[girl]
' 00 top
RAW    2B
RAW 2A    2D
RAW    2C

RAW 2E    2F

RAW 30    31

%OFF% charControl_pattern[sprite]
' 00 top
RAW    2B
RAW 2A    2D
RAW    2C

RAW 2E    2F

RAW 30    31
The 2E 2F 30 31 part is the diagonals.

Pesukarhu7

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2050 on: April 17, 2021, 03:20:54 pm »
Hi, is there any way you could make these into ips patches as i have a mac and wine doesnt work on apple silicon and i really want to try this

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2051 on: April 17, 2021, 05:29:33 pm »
Queue similarly happens with Spring Beak, ranged weapon attacks aren't dealing any damage at all no matter how many times I attack it like with Spikey Tiger when he was out of reach casting spells.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2052 on: April 18, 2021, 06:51:37 am »
Thanks!  It works great.

Btw, for the items, why did you decide that Cure items are Red, Warp items are Blue, and SE Heal items are Yellow? (Mana being Green makes sense)  I feel that Cure should be Blue (cure water), Warp should be Yellow (Rope and Wind Drum are yellow/brown), and SE Heal should be Red (Puipui grass and Mini Mallet heavily use the color red).

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2053 on: April 18, 2021, 11:21:02 am »
Not sure if this was reported, but in Desert, in the screen before going up to the Sandship, there was usually a dialogue, my characters just stopped moving for some time then the dialogue opened with the text gogogo lol.

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2054 on: April 18, 2021, 02:20:24 pm »
Pesukarhu7, you don't need WINE (+ .NET Framework) to run this patcher, you need MONO. I think they have gotten Mono up and running on Apple Silicon, but have no first-hand experience with it. You'll probably have to jump through some hoops to get it working, but you're the early adopter of a new hardware architecture, so that comes with the territory. This project uses a custom patcher specifically because IPS patches aren't suitable for it, and I wasted a good chunk of time (mine and someone else's) modifying the patcher to work via Mono on platforms I don't use and don't like. If Mono isn't working natively on the new Apple architecture, you should be able to get an emulator that can run Linux, install Mono on Linux, and run the patcher there. That was how I tested Ubuntu + Mono: downloaded a functioning Ubuntu Virtual Machine image, installed mono-vbnc within it, then ran the ZPS patcher in there.

hmsong, because those are technically placeholder graphics and colors. They're the Japanese / European SNES controller button colors. I was tired of doing icon art after the mini elementals and needed a break.

Mr X, d'oh, I probably broke something in the pre-release Reborn 1.11. Thanks for the report.

Edit: Oh hah, yep, I see the problem, it's not that I broke it exactly, it's that, due to script changes, a ROM bank boundary occurs between Event289 and Event28A, which mangles how Revisit_Kakkara_Desert tries to modify event 28A.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 02:48:14 pm by Queue »

Spooniest

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2055 on: April 18, 2021, 04:28:49 pm »
This is just useless trivia and won't help with the project, but

"Gogogogogogo" is the Japanese onomatopoeia for the sound of an engine whirring.
Yamero~~!

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415
« Reply #2056 on: April 18, 2021, 04:31:04 pm »
Bow, normal Boomerang and Javelin attack don't seem to work on neither the Lizards or the Ice Gigas. That means they probably don't work on many more bosses.

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210418
« Reply #2057 on: April 18, 2021, 05:50:43 pm »
Version 2021-04-18:
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_Turbo.210418.zip

Changes:
- fixed bug in Bug_Fixes\Boss_Blind_Spot_Fix that was making projectiles not damage bosses
- rewrote event edits for Miscellaneous\Revisit_Kakkara_Desert to both make them less messy and fix a compatibility issue with Reborn 1.11
- slightly altered Quality_of_Life\Simpler_Patterns elemental arrangement

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210418
« Reply #2058 on: April 18, 2021, 08:56:20 pm »
hmsong, because those are technically placeholder graphics and colors. They're the Japanese / European SNES controller button colors. I was tired of doing icon art after the mini elementals and needed a break.

Ah, gottya.  Not that I mind those being permanent graphic/color (that way, they're more "flexible" to different items).

Version 2021-04-18:
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_Turbo.210418.zip

Changes:
- fixed bug in Bug_Fixes\Boss_Blind_Spot_Fix that was making projectiles not damage bosses
- rewrote event edits for Miscellaneous\Revisit_Kakkara_Desert to both make them less messy and fix a compatibility issue with Reborn 1.11
- slightly altered Quality_of_Life\Simpler_Patterns elemental arrangement

Awesome.  I like this Simpler Patterns.  Not as quick input as the normal version, but the simple version requires far less memorization.

The boss is indeed being hit by projectiles now.  I thought me missing was due to some vanilla bug, but I guess not.  Heh.  I still miss from time to time, but I'm guessing that's due to boss's EVA, relative to my ACC.

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210418
« Reply #2059 on: April 19, 2021, 03:11:14 am »
I still miss from time to time, but I'm guessing that's due to boss's EVA, relative to my ACC.

Haven't tried it yet, but this would be a welcome change to influence evasion/blocking and make those stats actually work.