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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415  (Read 487495 times)

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1820 on: February 06, 2021, 12:37:51 pm »
Gotcha  :thumbsup:

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1821 on: February 06, 2021, 02:56:19 pm »
Okay, how to catch up...

Memorex, the glitches you described were purely due to save state use + repatching where the event data changed out from under what the event system was currently using. The way to avoid that is to pause (the START button pause, only works when single player) and make the save state while paused, when you're going to repatch. If you do that, the save state taken while paused can be loaded basically 100% of the time against whatever changes you make to the SoM ROM.



Thirteen 1355, whoa yikes, that crash. Thank you for the screenshot and description. I was able to reproduce a crash, though it's pretty wild one. I got it to occur by picking sell, then buy, then leave the menu, then open the ring menu.

There are vanilla bugs regarding having empty equipment / inventory and interacting with merchants. I thought I fixed them, but I suspect there's some edge case that makes my "fix" blow up in our faces like this. Seriously, thank you, I didn't know there was still an issue with the sell menu and an empty inventory.

Regarding what features are complete, or I suppose, which are incomplete, Revisit_Goblin_Village and New_Game_Plus, of everything in Turbo at the moment, are probably the things that look and feel the most half-baked. Revisit_Goblin_Village is On by default because it provides a useful new travel route, but the Goblin Village isn't affected by time of day, and when you enter you're always sent down near the totem pole rather than to the logical entry/exit spots (in the trees). New_Game_Plus is just barely functional and needs a lot of attention; it's On by default because the NG+ mechanism works so it's there in case someone's hungry for more SoM without restarting from the beginning, but it's not balanced or especially fun yet in my opinion. Otherwise, everything is either complete, or in a state where if it never was improved further, as-is wouldn't feel incomplete. Even most of the stuff marked (Experimental) is actually in solid shape.

As for difficulty, "no stamina" by itself definitely makes the game even easier (I can't emphasize enough that this game is easy vanilla), but the defaults do raise difficulty in other ways to try and compensate. Critically, the goal of all of these changes was to make the gameplay more enjoyable; while I don't expect everyone to agree, I think that goal was achieved. But the patcher lets you turn stuff Off and On, and Advanced Options has some fine grained adjustments available, for those who disagree.



hmsong, things like whether certain stuff (like victory messages) automatically close or wait for input is arguably out of scope for a retranslation. We did make some design decisions on timed versus input for certain cutscenes, but generally the goal was to keep the experience close to vanilla (just with different text). Some bugs in the events were fixed for Reborn, sometimes out of necessity (Phanna in the Tree / Grand Palace foyer), and sometimes because it improved Reborn's presentation (Jema in the Tasnica throne room).

I should be able to make a Turbo feature that would alter boss rewards to wait for input, but it wouldn't be part of Reborn.

Regarding grandpa, grandpa is effectively formal, gramps is a playful nickname. Not an unusual occurrence in English. Grandpa has a nickname for the sprite. The implication is that they're close.

And regarding when gameplay messages accidentally look like they're spoken by a character... we tried to keep 4th wall breaking messages minimal, leaning towards having them make sense if it was one of the characters speaking them. Consider something like Undine's cave:
An invisible force pushes you back.
versus
An invisible force is pushing me back.
(neither is exact wording, but I hope that gets the idea across)
Some gameplay messages, like static treasure chests, are matched very closely to the Japanese, and written neutrally enough that you could imagine the character opening it saying it, even if it's a bit wordy.
Some, the text box closes after a character finishes speaking, and a new text box opens to show the gameplay message.
Some, the gameplay message is in parenthesis (I actually forget which we did this with).
If none of the above, it was probably unintentional, like, I thought there was a text box close in there because there was for a similar message, so no harm in pointing them out to me.



Edit: Thirteen 1355, what emulator are you using? I've only gotten it to crash in Snes9x so far. I'm going to get it figured out and fixed, but it's weird (and annoying) that I haven't gotten it to crash in Mesen-S, which is a shame because it has much better debugging capability.

Edit2: Okay, I finally got it all tracked down. The gist of the problem is if the very first thing you ever do with a ring menu is try and Sell when you have a completely empty inventory (the behavior is broken enough that maybe other circumstances can cause it too, but it's all related to trying to Sell when you have an empty inventory). Some incorrectly initialized data gets copied as your last viewed ring menu, and when you open another ring menu and it loads your last viewed ring menu number, it winds up with a value that accesses beyond the end of an array of function pointers (and then jumps to whatever value it finds as if it were an address) and code execution ends up in outer space.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 09:39:54 pm by Queue »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1822 on: February 06, 2021, 07:29:54 pm »
I should be able to make a Turbo feature that would alter boss rewards to wait for input, but it wouldn't be part of Reborn.

That would be great.  And yeah, it was apparently a vanilla behavior (I thought it wasn't).

And regarding when gameplay messages accidentally look like they're spoken by a character... we tried to keep 4th wall breaking messages minimal, leaning towards having them make sense if it was one of the characters speaking them.

Oh, okay.  Then it works out.  I'll try to keep open minded about this and try some more.

Some, the text box closes after a character finishes speaking, and a new text box opens to show the gameplay message.
Some, the gameplay message is in parenthesis (I actually forget which we did this with).
If none of the above, it was probably unintentional, like, I thought there was a text box close in there because there was for a similar message, so no harm in pointing them out to me.

Yeah, then I'll continue to point them out.  So far, I've seen the Scorpion gang scene had that overlap of text box.


I have some requests (I realized this while playing this after a long time)... they'll both be pretty hard, I'm sure.
- For Polished_Weapons, could you add graphics for the gloves?  It's the only weapon that doesn't have graphics of any kind, and that's always bothered me.
- Could you have an option somewhere where you switch the A and B button?  For most SNES games (esp RPGs), A is confirm, and B is cancel (in battle, A is action, and B is cancel/run).  I know I can switch things in button config, but I'm also talking about when you start the game and you select the file.  And of course, that includes the descriptions, such as the instruction in the file select screen.  And the button config screen too.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1823 on: February 06, 2021, 08:39:03 pm »
hmsong, with all the feedback received, I changed the "sorry about your luck" line to "PURIM: Fine! I'm done here! Let's go, RANDI!" 

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1824 on: February 06, 2021, 09:29:40 pm »
hmsong, with all the feedback received, I changed the "sorry about your luck" line to "PURIM: Fine! I'm done here! Let's go, RANDI!"

Thanks.  I'm glad that you decided to do that.  Not that I'll hold anything against you if you decided to not do that  :).

Neko (in Upperland) uses a semi-colon too.  This one seems more natural though, so I didn't bring it up earlier.

Some more:

1) Two of the mushrooms in Matango (I assume they both use the same script) say, "we're not an aggressive species".  It ought to be, "an aggressive specie" (singular).
2) The left guard of Matango said, "They were like white dragons, but they're extinct now."  Does that mean that the Matango ancestors used beasts that were NOT white dragons?
3a) The right guard of Matango said, "There's animals...".  It's supposed to be, "There're animals".
3b) In the same dialog, "Sometimes you're in the middle of the forest... and just out of the blue, you see dark things around flying around?" -- Was that supposed to be a question?
4) Comparing the 3rd bow (Longbow) and 3rd javelin (Sahagin Harpoon), the descriptions are supposed to be the same, but one uses plural (monsters) and the other uses singular (monster).
5) After killing the Great Viper, the boss music sound doesn't stop.  And you can still move around (for a bit).  And there's no victory music.  And sometimes, the Matango music doesn't restart.
6) Maybe it's just me, but the party calls Flammie as "it" when they meet him in the cave.  I know it's technically correct, but I feel... uncomfortable.  King Truffle calls Flammie as "him" though.
7) Apparently, the previous Matango king was named Matsuketan, but that sounds so Japanese, unlike any other names.  Could you please come up with another name?  Perhaps another grand mushroom names?
8-) Sergei (in the ship, after the guards move away) uses semi-colon.
9) When Popoi rejoins in the ship, the guard says, "They've damn eaten every last bit of provisions on the ship!"  Don't you mean "He's", and not "They've"?  And I think it's supposed to be "bits of provision", not "bit of provisions".


@Queue

One of the scripts of soldiers in the desert after beating the Mech Rider 1 isn't cancelable.  The guy that says where the Kakkara town is.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 08:18:08 am by hmsong »

AdamDravian

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1825 on: February 06, 2021, 11:44:46 pm »
hmsong, with all the feedback received, I changed the "sorry about your luck" line to "PURIM: Fine! I'm done here! Let's go, RANDI!"

 :thumbsup:
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Thirteen 1355

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1826 on: February 07, 2021, 07:38:57 am »

Thirteen 1355, whoa yikes, that crash. Thank you for the screenshot and description. I was able to reproduce a crash, though it's pretty wild one. I got it to occur by picking sell, then buy, then leave the menu, then open the ring menu.

There are vanilla bugs regarding having empty equipment / inventory and interacting with merchants. I thought I fixed them, but I suspect there's some edge case that makes my "fix" blow up in our faces like this. Seriously, thank you, I didn't know there was still an issue with the sell menu and an empty inventory.

Regarding what features are complete, or I suppose, which are incomplete, Revisit_Goblin_Village and New_Game_Plus, of everything in Turbo at the moment, are probably the things that look and feel the most half-baked. Revisit_Goblin_Village is On by default because it provides a useful new travel route, but the Goblin Village isn't affected by time of day, and when you enter you're always sent down near the totem pole rather than to the logical entry/exit spots (in the trees). New_Game_Plus is just barely functional and needs a lot of attention; it's On by default because the NG+ mechanism works so it's there in case someone's hungry for more SoM without restarting from the beginning, but it's not balanced or especially fun yet in my opinion. Otherwise, everything is either complete, or in a state where if it never was improved further, as-is wouldn't feel incomplete. Even most of the stuff marked (Experimental) is actually in solid shape.

As for difficulty, "no stamina" by itself definitely makes the game even easier (I can't emphasize enough that this game is easy vanilla), but the defaults do raise difficulty in other ways to try and compensate. Critically, the goal of all of these changes was to make the gameplay more enjoyable; while I don't expect everyone to agree, I think that goal was achieved. But the patcher lets you turn stuff Off and On, and Advanced Options has some fine grained adjustments available, for those who disagree.

Edit: Thirteen 1355, what emulator are you using? I've only gotten it to crash in Snes9x so far. I'm going to get it figured out and fixed, but it's weird (and annoying) that I haven't gotten it to crash in Mesen-S, which is a shame because it has much better debugging capability.

Edit2: Okay, I finally got it all tracked down. The gist of the problem is if the very first thing you ever do with a ring menu is try and Sell when you have a completely empty inventory (the behavior is broken enough that maybe other circumstances can cause it too, but it's all related to trying to Sell when you have an empty inventory). Some incorrectly initialized data gets copied as your last viewed ring menu, and when you open another ring menu and it loads your last viewed ring menu number, it winds up with a value that accesses beyond the end of an array of function pointers (and then jumps to whatever value it finds as if it were an address) and code execution ends up in outer space.

Yep, regarding the difficulty, when playing, I certainly noticed some differences. You take way more damage than in the original, and the HP of enemies seems to be scaled up a bit. I actually like both the original, and the new way at the moment, though the Mantis boss feels a bit too tough to do without dying (but same goes for the original). Maybe that was intentional.

And yeah, I used SNES9x. It's an interesting little error. Glad you got it figured out, though!
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Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1827 on: February 07, 2021, 08:47:00 am »
Yeah, the Mantis ant took far longer to beat in this hack! Don't know how far you've gotten, but there is a tweak
enabled as default that makes you start the game without armour, which in turn makes the enemies and the Mantis ant seem even stronger. 

Thirteen 1355

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1828 on: February 07, 2021, 09:10:30 am »
Yeah, really not planning to start without armor  :-[

I guess the length allows you to learn the ins and outs of the combat, though. I really like the blocking. Is there a way to block magic as well? I could block Acid Breath, but not Gem Rain or whatever the first Gnome spell is called.
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ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1829 on: February 07, 2021, 09:14:34 am »
Queue, is there any way to fix Mantis Ant's AI when it's pinned to the back wall and just hops in place?
Maybe instead of trying to jump behind Randi, it jumps a few times in front of him, and that way, it can still attack?



hmsong

1)"Specie" means something different.

Quote
2) The left guard of Matango said, "They were like white dragons, but they're extinct now."  Does that mean that the Matango ancestors used beasts that were NOT white dragons?

I checked.  That's what it says in Japanese.  Though last night, I saw this line when I was working on something for Flammie, and I agree that it's strange.  There's the Mana Beast, the "beasts" that fly around the world (who later become the Mana Beast), and the white dragons, who have some loose connection to the first two.  So I guess the NPC is referring to the second one?

Quote
3a) The right guard of Matango said, "There's animals...".  It's supposed to be, "There're animals".

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/there-is-there-s-and-there-are

"In speaking and in some informal writing, we use there’s even when it refers to more than one."

Quote
3b) In the same dialog, "Sometimes you're in the middle of the forest... and just out of the blue, you see dark things around flying around?" -- Was that supposed to be a question?

Yes.

Quote
4) Comparing the 3rd bow (Longbow) and 3rd javelin (Sahagin Harpoon), the descriptions are supposed to be the same, but one uses plural (monsters) and the other uses singular (monster).

I went through the workspace, and don't see any instances of a singular monster in the menu text.  Could you paste the two strings in question?  See Queue's reponse

Quote
6) Maybe it's just me, but the party calls Flammie as "it" when they meet him in the cave.  I know it's technically correct, but I feel... uncomfortable.  King Truffle calls Flammie as "him" though.

I don't know why Taosenai did that, but Woolsey did the same thing.

Quote
7) Apparently, the previous Matango king was named Matsuketan, but that sounds so Japanese, unlike any other names.  Could you please come up with another name?  Perhaps another grand mushroom names?

It's a pun on Matsutake, which is also used in English.  At first, I thought Taosenai misspelled it and it's supposed to be Matsutaken, but kWhazit has the same thing here:

https://kwhazit.ucoz.net/trans/sd2/12shroom.html

Quote
8-) Sergei (in the ship, after the guards move away) uses semi-colon.

That's correct.

Quote
9) When Popoi rejoins in the ship, the guard says, "They've damn eaten every last bit of provisions on the ship!"  Don't you mean "He's", and not "They've"?  And I think it's supposed to be "bits of provision", not "bit of provisions".

We had a discussion about this recently in the main thread for the SAP.  We used both he and they.  For your second point, imagine a sentence like, "The sprite's eaten every last ounce of provisions."  Ounces wouldn't make sense. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 06:50:43 pm by ManaRedux »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1830 on: February 07, 2021, 03:40:44 pm »
hmsong, regarding gloves and Polished_Weapons, arggg...
So here's the deal. I do want to make a visible graphic for the glove weapons. Before SoM was released, glove weapons had visible claw graphics on both hands, but it was cut before the game was released. ManaRedux has tracked down quite a few pre-release screenshots from Japanese magazines and such so that I have reference pictures to try and recreate it (that's where that new Mushroom_Cap icon came from). However, weapon animations use many frames of animation and there only a handful of reference images, so the info is incomplete, so I'll have to guess / make stuff up for the bulk of it.

Ignoring the art itself for a second, there are 100+ frames of animation that have to be created to make it work. The girl and sprite also have weapon positioning fixup offsets that have to be adjusted for each frame of animation. For the flails, I could use the normal whip animation frames as a starting point, so even though they took a massive amount of work, it was still manageable. The gloves, I'm starting from scratch. I've considered using the sword as a template, possibly even cutting it back to only a claw on the main hand, as the characters have so many differences in their hand positions during glove animations that a claw on each hand may not be feasible, but I don't know yet.

A caveat, Spike Knuckle has to be invisible. It's weapon 0 and used as an "invisible" weapon in far too many places (things equipping weapon 0 to hide their normally visible weapon, etc.). So I'm leaning towards only giving the "claw" glove weapons the graphics, and leaving the "knuckle" glove weapons invisible.

This may never happen. It's a massive project and one of my moonshots. The arggg was because if I did pull it off I wanted it to be a surprise, and if I don't, no one would know I worked on it.

---

Regarding buttons, it may or may not be easy. B and A are recorded in different bytes, though thankfully occupying the same bit (0x80). Sometimes the button checking logic is very tightly tied to the exact byte and bit that needs to be checked, sometimes not. I consider this low priority regardless as it's only for a very brief period before custom buttons can be assigned / go into effect.

---

Regarding plurals, especially in colloquial spoken English, sometimes how easy it is to speak wins out over how correct it is. A good example being "there're" which is really annoying to say, so "there's" is almost always said instead, even if it's incorrect; the listener still understands, which is obviously the whole point of communication. When writing dialogue, sometimes the goal is to convey natural language, as opposed to being grammatically perfect.

Like with gameplay message appearance, there's no harm in pointing these out, so don't take this as me telling you not to. Just explaining why "there's" would be used in place of "there are".

Specie is actually just incorrect. Species is both the singular and plural of that word. You can blame Latin for that one.

You're right regarding the Longbow and Sahagin Harpoon, it's some mistake in the insertion script. The "s" is actually there but is getting cut off. I'll get that fixed.
Edit: It was more specifically a missed newline character than the insertion script messing up, but regardless, it's fixed going forward.

---

5) Vanilla issue with the Great Viper. I've looked at this before but don't recall exactly what conclusion I came to. May not be something appropriate to fix in Reborn, but is on my list of bugs to fix in general.

7) Is kind've a tough one. Like ManaRedux said, the former king was named after matsutake mushrooms, which is the name for that mushroom also used in English. The rearrangement of two syllables makes for a weaker play on words in English than it did in Japanese. I'd personally argue that being more direct, and just saying his name was Matsutaken, and that he was "taken" would convey the same sort of lame pun, but that sort of thing is up to ManaRedux.

8) Semi-colons aren't all mistakes. Heck, they didn't even exist in the vanilla font, I added them because we wanted to use them here and there.

9) Another variation: provisions = supplies (of food). You wouldn't say "every last bits of supply."

---

For that unabortable desert guard, he shares text with the guard who teleports you out, so it needed to be unabortable for safety. =/



Thirteen 1355 and Memorex, like you surmise, both in vanilla and Turbo, the Mantis Ant is a tutorial fight. You can't totally die, and he can be a bit difficult when you're still getting your bearings. For Turbo, if you have Manual_Block On, then Jema tells you about blocking, and if you have Manual_Block Off but still have Turbo_Mode On, Jema instructs you on using healing items (and keeps giving you Candy).

The reason that No_Default_Equipment is On by default is threefold:
1) To make Functional_Fashion more impactful when you buy your first equipment.
2) To make Rabites on the way to Potos a threat if you're sloppy.
3) To make Mantis Ant more dangerous if you don't (over) prepare by visiting the shop.

In Japanese and Reborn, the town Elder also suggests you use the money in the basement to buy equipment before you leave town; yet another tutorial element that goes well with No_Default_Equipment.

And no, there's no way to block magic. Acid Breath isn't magic, it's a boss skill. I've wanted to do something to make magic interruptible, but never gotten around to it.



ManaRedux, I hate boss AI. It's all terrible to look at and work on. There's the chance it'd be reasonable to tweak how the Mantis Ant behaves at the top edge of his room, but there's also the chance that making changes would cause other problems with his behavior. Possibly due to being the first boss, his AI is more competent and complex than most bosses, but it still sucks.

Are you concerned about him chain jumping being abusable by a player, or that it's super annoying and hard for the player to cope with, or something else?



Edit: To cover some earlier posts I missed responding to:
- Regarding Watts and the shortcut, teach isn't all that weird in this context, where either is equivalent to "demonstrate."
- I actually think the sentence with Gnome with the semicolon was better with the semicolon than a comma. It's essentially lighter weight than a period, but heavier than a comma. For speech, you'd think of it as a medium pause (if comma is short and period is long). Strictly, it's to connect two independent clauses, instead of using a conjunction (e.g. "and").
- For the money display, I actually tweaked code in Proportional_Font to support a 3-letter money label (e.g. " GP", note the space), but didn't change the label's text itself, because lots of stuff is hardcoded related to "GP" so would need to double-check a lot of stuff before going through with any changes. Timbo had bugs with Relocalized changing it to " L" that had to get ironed out, for example. Considering I'm the one who ironed them out, I should know what's needed, but that was like 2 years ago and I've forgotten.
- I think I recall some sort of gotcha for the context of the Pandora Queen and the Your Majesty thing. We probably need to review that line some more.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 08:10:28 pm by Queue »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1831 on: February 07, 2021, 08:10:36 pm »
@ManaRedux

1) Oh, you're right.  I did not know that.  Holy crap.
3) Ah, gottya.
6) Oh, okay.  Oh well.
7) Oh, I didn't know there was a mushroom called matsutake.
9) For the first point, I suppose you're just gonna keep the "They" part, right?  For the second part, Whoops.  I had that one wrong.  I suck at English.



@Queue

Oh damn.  Oh well.  I figured they'd be difficult.  Still, I thought I'd ask.

5) Ah, okay.  I don't quite remember vanilla having this problem, but it's been a while.  And you'd know about that stuff better than me anyways.
8-) Ah, gottya.

ManaRedux, I hate boss AI. It's all terrible to look at and work on. There's the chance it'd be reasonable to tweak how the Mantis Ant behaves at the top edge of his room, but there's also the chance that making changes would cause other problems with his behavior. Possibly due to being the first boss, his AI is more competent and complex than most bosses, but it still sucks.

Yeah, I actually wanted to ask you (or did I already ask?) to make something so that in the Mana Beast fight, the Mana beast will rise/descent a lot quicker... and/or have Mana Beast descend only.  I mean, Mana Beast is a sitting duck when he rises (this is one of the many parts that makes the final Mana Beast really easy).  I don't know why the devs made things that way.  But I figured that changing the AI of bosses is tough.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 08:24:28 pm by hmsong »

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1832 on: February 07, 2021, 08:29:15 pm »
9) For the first point, I suppose you're just gonna keep the "They" part, right?  For the second part, Whoops.  I had that one wrong.  I suck at English.

No worries whatsoever.  I sincerely appreciate the fact that you're going through the game, and you've certainly pointed out some mistakes on our end.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 08:37:36 pm by ManaRedux »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1833 on: February 08, 2021, 07:39:38 am »
Glad to be of help.  Hopefully, I don't annoy you guys too much.

Some more:

1) In Ice Country paradise, after freeing Salamando, the fire furnace moves downward when the Scorpion gang flees South.  This definitley wasn't present in vanilla, so it's probably Reborn error (or Turbo error).
2) In Kakkara, there's one lady that says, "there's a village like paradise...".  Maybe it's supposed to be, "there's a paradise-like village..."?
3) When you beat Frost Gigas and Santa talks to you, he says, "When mana fades...".  "mana" is not capitalized, unlike others who say the word Mana, with capitalized M.
4) There's nothing wrong with this script, but I just found it funny.  In that new room in the Northtown, one of the ladies says that Thanatos and Fanha spends a lot of time talking alone.  Then she wonders what they're up to.  That sounds dirty.  But we all know that Thanatos is undead, so that just sounds gross.
5) From time to time, when Krissie comes to talk at the entrance of Northtown Ruins, she is not very visible.  I'm not sure if this is vanilla problem, or Reborn problem.

https://ibb.co/3CvcQZg

Btw, how do you upload image?  I do the whole [ img ] [ /img ] thing with the link, but it gets broken.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 08:54:43 am by hmsong »

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1834 on: February 08, 2021, 09:21:54 am »
Quote
2) In Kakkara, there's one lady that says, "there's a village like paradise...".  Maybe it's supposed to be, "there's a paradise-like village..."?

"Paradise-like" is a bit awkward.  Think of a sentence like, "The weather's like southern California today", or "there's a village like Hawaii in the middle of the Ice Country."

Quote
3) When you beat Frost Gigas and Santa talks to you, he says, "When mana fades...".  "mana" is not capitalized, unlike others who say the word Mana, with capitalized M.

Yep.  Fixed.  I'm glad you mentioned this, because there was another case (haha) where this happened.

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There's nothing wrong with this script, but I just found it funny.  In that new room in the Northtown, one of the ladies says that Thanatos and Fanha spends a lot of time talking alone.  Then she wonders what they're up to.  That sounds dirty.  But we all know that Thanatos is undead, so that just sounds gross.

I personally didn't get that impression at all.  I'd be interested if others feel that way.

However, I have bad news.  After looking at some lines in the script and other materials, we discussed the strong possibly of a romance between these two. :o  At the very least, Fanha has been lured into Thanatos' cause to the point of obsession.



ROM king

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1835 on: February 08, 2021, 09:24:59 am »
Hey guy, I would love to download your hack, but sadly Filebin is down for the count, so none of us poor folk can download it. Sad day.  :'(

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1836 on: February 08, 2021, 01:24:45 pm »
When you get to Pandora the guard tells you that Jema is in the castle, while a woman tells you that the girl and her father are at the castle.
Both may be perfectly correct, it just caught my attention.

zoe.f

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1837 on: February 08, 2021, 07:22:39 pm »
Hey! The hack looks great, but the download link at the top of the OP seems to not work. It just gives an error saying "This page isn't working." Am I doing something wrong? I'd really love to play it :) Thanks for all your hard work on this.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1838 on: February 08, 2021, 08:56:51 pm »
However, I have bad news.  After looking at some lines in the script and other materials, we discussed the strong possibly of a romance between these two. :o  At the very least, Fanha has been lured into Thanatos' cause to the point of obsession.

Eww.  Lol.

I have some more:

1) Marikto's name sounds weird and awkward.  It's either "Marikuto", or "Marikoto", or "Maritto", or "Marito", isn't it?  There's no "kto" in Japanese sound, right?  I personally prefer, "Mariko" -- sounds more natural.
2) In the Northtown Ruins, when talking to the brainwashed cultist in the room where Dyluck is in, it says, "Randi: ...".  Randi isn't the person to be silenced, is he?
3) At the end of Northtown's Emperor's castle, Geshtar says, "No one harms me unpunished!"  I don't think that's quite right.  I think what you meant was, "No one harms me and gets unpunished!"  Or, "No one who harms me gets unpunished!"  I know it's wordier, but I can't think of a way to reduce that (unless you want to reduce some other sentences in the same scene).
4) For a moment, when you leave the Emperor's castle via the Truffle cutscene, I can see that there's some sort of graphic error.  And there's no "Wind Drum usage animation" either.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210201
« Reply #1839 on: February 08, 2021, 09:17:37 pm »
I have some more:

1) Marikto's name sounds weird and awkward.  It's either "Marikuto", or "Marikoto", or "Maritto", or "Marito", isn't it?  There's no "kto" in Japanese sound, right?  I personally prefer, "Mariko" -- sounds more natural.

Explanation:

Code: [Select]
From “Malikto,” a spell in Wizardry (a major influence on early Square developers)
Her Japanese name is Marikuto.

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2) In the Northtown Ruins, when talking to the brainwashed cultist in the room where Dyluck is in, it says, "Randi: ...".  Randi isn't the person to be silenced, is he?

I think this wins the award for #1 most popular item of feedback on Reborn.  Believe it or not, it is undoubtedly Randi reacting to the possessed townsfolk in the Japanese script.  This may have been a mistake on the developers' part, as every other instance of the same dialogue seems to emanate from a possessed person.  We left it in because it still makes sense.  One thing we could do is make it, "Randi:......!"  The exclamation point would indicate a reaction, but may be a bit more than what was intended there.

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3) At the end of Northtown's Emperor's castle, Geshtar says, "No one harms me unpunished!"  I don't think that's quite right.  I think what you meant was, "No one harms me and gets unpunished!"  Or, "No one who harms me gets unpunished!"  I know it's wordier, but I can't think of a way to reduce that (unless you want to reduce some other sentences in the same scene).

Tl;dr it's a reference to the Latin phrase, Nemo me impune lacessit, which nicely reflects the original sentiment, especially as it's adopted as a military/regal motto.

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4) For a moment, when you leave the Emperor's castle via the Truffle cutscene, I can see that there's some sort of graphic error.  And there's no "Wind Drum usage animation" either.

This is Queue's department, but I've had graphical dropouts (i.e. background layer/sprites completely disappear) in the same location, albeit during the Mech Rider 2 battle.  It happened whenever he launched his missiles, whose graphics are beyond glitchy.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 06:58:19 am by ManaRedux »