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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210329  (Read 481487 times)

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210126
« Reply #1740 on: January 27, 2021, 08:10:15 pm »
Reborn does change a few events. I don't think any that would interfere with what you're doing here, and too many changes where it would take me quite some time to sort them out and make a list here. In my script that builds the Reborn patch, I left comments whenever I needed to alter vanilla events to accommodate Reborn text, etc. and a quick search of the file shows 333 changes, though most are trivial (for example, adding or removing \wait_input \text_clear, which are at least 80 of the changes).



A warning regarding %OFF% is that it doesn't comment out cleanly:
Code: [Select]
'%OFF% Event4A4is parsed as:
Code: [Select]
'@OFF $FFFFFF
OFF Event4A4
due to the way it needs to work. It won't cause problems as long as nothing occurs after OFF Event4A4 and before your next @OFF Whatever.

%\n%
%Vanilla%
%VWF%
%Proper%
%Reloc%
%Augment%
(and any of the other "specialized_compatibility_macros")
%OFF%

Those shouldn't be commented out with an apostrophe (') because they can cause unexpected side-effects. They can be safely commented out with:
IF FALSE
%OFF% Event4A4
ENDIF
because that completely envelops them. There's no real way to avoid that; those had to be tricky in order to work, and unfortunately the ZPS patcher expands %text_replacements% BEFORE parsing the comment character, which means %text_replacements% that contain a newline don't comment out as expected.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210126
« Reply #1741 on: January 27, 2021, 08:31:33 pm »
Oh, so in order to correct what I did, I need to do this?:

Code: [Select]
' Vanilla/Relocalized/Reborn
%OFF% Event4A2 ' Event 4A2 (Hexas)
'\event \call 504 ' whip orb (RAW 2504)
\event \call 501 ' whip --> sword
IF FALSE
'%OFF% Event4A4 ' Event 4A4 (Mech Rider 3)
ENDIF
''\event \inc= 44 \inc= FF \call 503 ' spear orb
'\event \inc= 44 \inc= FF \call 503 ' spear --> '
%OFF% Event5ED ' Event 5ED (Dragon Worm)
'\event \call 41B \call 502 ' axe orb
\event \call 41B \call 500 ' axe --> glove
IF FALSE
'%OFF% Event5EF ' Event 5EF (Snow Dragon)
ENDIF
''\event \call 505 ' bow orb
'\event \call 505 ' bow --> '
%OFF% Event5F1 ' Event 5F1 (Axe Beak)
'\event \call 507 ' javelin orb
\event \call 506 ' javelin --> boomerang
%OFF% Event5F3 ' Event 5F3 (Red Dragon)
'\event \call 500 ' glove orb
\event \call 502 ' glove --> axe
%OFF% Event5F5 ' Event 5F5 (Thunder Gigas)
'\event \call 501 ' sword orb
\event \call 507 ' sword --> javelin
%OFF% Event5F7 ' Event 5F7 (Blue Dragon)
'\event \inc= 46 \call 506 ' boomerang orb
\event \inc= 46 \call 504 ' boomerang --> whip

I know that '%OFF% can be changed to %OFF%, but I felt leaving the ' in order to make a note for myself.  Unless I'm wrong.

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210126
« Reply #1742 on: January 27, 2021, 10:47:32 pm »
Obviously that's a little messy. What I'd suggest is:
Code: [Select]
' Vanilla/Relocalized/Reborn
%OFF% Event4A2 ' Event 4A2 (Hexas)
'\event \call 504 ' whip orb (RAW 2504)
\event \call 501 ' whip --> sword
%OFF% Event5ED ' Event 5ED (Dragon Worm)
'\event \call 41B \call 502 ' axe orb
\event \call 41B \call 500 ' axe --> glove
%OFF% Event5F1 ' Event 5F1 (Axe Beak)
'\event \call 507 ' javelin orb
\event \call 506 ' javelin --> boomerang
%OFF% Event5F3 ' Event 5F3 (Red Dragon)
'\event \call 500 ' glove orb
\event \call 502 ' glove --> axe
%OFF% Event5F5 ' Event 5F5 (Thunder Gigas)
'\event \call 501 ' sword orb
\event \call 507 ' sword --> javelin
%OFF% Event5F7 ' Event 5F7 (Blue Dragon)
'\event \inc= 46 \call 506 ' boomerang orb
\event \inc= 46 \call 504 ' boomerang --> whip
IF FALSE
'%OFF% Event4A4 ' Event 4A4 (Mech Rider 3)
''\event \inc= 44 \inc= FF \call 503 ' spear orb
'\event \inc= 44 \inc= FF \call 503 ' spear --> '
'%OFF% Event5EF ' Event 5EF (Snow Dragon)
''\event \call 505 ' bow orb
'\event \call 505 ' bow --> '
ENDIF
Split the two disabled ones off to the end, and wrap it all in a single IF FALSE to disable it.

The apostrophes aren't even necessary then. Since the event labels themsevles tell you the event number, you could also trim the event number comment as well. So the following is probably close to how I would do it:
Code: [Select]
' Boss Defeated Weapon Orbs
%OFF% Event4A2 ' Hexas
'\event \call 504 ' whip orb (RAW 2504)
\event \call 501 ' sword orb
%OFF% Event5ED ' Dragon Worm
'\event \call 41B \call 502 ' axe orb
\event \call 41B \call 500 ' glove orb
%OFF% Event5F1 ' Axe Beak
'\event \call 507 ' javelin orb
\event \call 506 ' boomerang orb
%OFF% Event5F3 ' Red Dragon
'\event \call 500 ' glove orb
\event \call 502 ' axe orb
%OFF% Event5F5 ' Thunder Gigas
'\event \call 501 ' sword orb
\event \call 507 ' javelin orb
%OFF% Event5F7 ' Blue Dragon
'\event \inc= 46 \call 506 ' boomerang orb
\event \inc= 46 \call 504 ' whip orb
IF FALSE
%OFF% Event4A4 ' Mech Rider 3
'\event \inc= 44 \inc= FF \call 503 ' spear orb
\event \inc= 44 \inc= FF \call 503 ' spear orb
%OFF% Event5EF ' Snow Dragon
'\event \call 505 ' bow orb
\event \call 505 ' bow orb
ENDIF

That said, I have some text highlighting junk set up for ZPS files in the text editor I'm using, so the disabled stuff is clearly color-coded:

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210126
« Reply #1743 on: January 28, 2021, 12:31:25 am »
Oh, I guess IF FALSE can be used that way.  Nice.  And what you did definitely looks cleaner.  I shall do that.  Thanks.

On to the other note, if you combined numerous spells (ex: Have Popoi cast Freeze and Primm cast Blaze Wall, roughly at the same time), the text box gets all screwed up.  I'm not sure what's causing it.

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210126
« Reply #1744 on: January 28, 2021, 03:19:03 am »
Quote from: hmsong
On to the other note, if you combined numerous spells (ex: Have Popoi cast Freeze and Primm cast Blaze Wall, roughly at the same time), the text box gets all screwed up.  I'm not sure what's causing it.
Can you give me more details? I haven't been able to reproduce that yet, but really want to fix it.

Things like where you were, what you were fighting, using quick spells or normal spell menu (or a combination), etc.

It may be worth posting your current patch config file, in case it's some feature or combination that's related (remember you can use [spoiler][/spoiler] tags).

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210126
« Reply #1745 on: January 28, 2021, 05:20:33 am »
Directly south of the final gate in Pure Land, there are few Ghosts and Ice Thugs.  I used Blaze Wall and Earth Slide on the same enemy (usually, the order is Blaze Wall, then immediately Earth Slide, but the order may change).  When they're both casting, the spell name pops up on the top of the screen, but Blaze Wall name gets all weird on the sides.  I was using the normal menu spells.  It may take several attempts.

Screenshots:
https://ibb.co/y65QSZv
https://ibb.co/cbMYVzd

My config is:
Spoiler:
[{unknown}]
V210125=1
[Combat]
{Combat}=1
Turbo_Mode=0
Strong_And_Weak_Attacks=1
_Alternate_Attack_Set=1
Faster_Charging=1
Double_Stamina_Regen=1
Full_Percentage_Damage=1
Manual_Block=1
_Blocking_Requires_Full_Stamina=1
_Blocking_Drains_Stamina=1
No_Automatic_Blocking=0
No_Damage_While_Recovering=0
Quick_Recovery=0
Quick_Numbers=1
Faster_Bosses=1
Faster_Enemies=1
Quicker_Enemies=0
Faster_CPU_Allies=1
Better_CPU_Allies=0
[Magic]
{Magic}=1
Early_Luna=0
Magic_Recharging=0
Default_Spirit_Levels=0
Spell_System_Extensions=1
_Stone_Saber_-_NPC_Version=0
_Blaze_Wall_-_NPC_Version=0
_Evil_Gate_-_NPC_Version=0
_Mud_Saber_-_Replaces_Stone_Saber=0
_Inferno_Barrier_-_Replaces_Blaze_Wall=0
_Shadow_Saber_-_Replaces_Evil_Gate=1
_Speed_Down_-_Hit_And_Evade_Down=1
_Speed_Up_-_Detangle=1
_Lunar_Magic_-_Celestial_Cascade=1
_Burst_-_Health_Cost=1
_Revivifier_-_Turn_Undead=1
_Dispel_Magic_-_Target_Allies=1
_Dust_Flare_-_Replaces_Fire_Bouquet=1
_Black_Hex_-_Replaces_Evil_Gate=1
Comprehensive_Dispel=1
Spell_Power_Tweaks=0
Extend_Buff_Time=1
Acid_Storm_-_Magic_Def_Down=0
Speed_Up_-_Faster_Recharge=1
Lava_Wave_-_Engulf=0
Stone_Saber_-_Icon_Color=1
Thunder_Saber_-_Silence=1
Light_Saber_-_Balloon=0
Lunar_Magic_-_Mana_Cost_Reduction=0
Moon_Energy_-_Mana_Cost_Reduction=0
Revivifier_-_Mana_Cost_Reduction=0
Herbal_Boost_-_Replaces_Moon_Energy=1
Hellfire_-_Replaces_Exploder=0
Evil_Gate_-_More_Useful=1
MP_Absorb_-_Reversible=0
HP_Absorb_-_Reversible=1
Moon_Saber_-_Reversible=1
Sleep_Flower_-_Poison=1
Change_Form_-_Pygmy-Moogle=1
Analyzer_-_Early_Access=1
Some_Spells_Bypass_Wall=1
Spell_Balance_Overhaul=1
[Items]
{Items}=1
Unique_Equipment=0
Seven_Items_Max=0
Item_Limit_Increase=0
No_Default_Equipment=0
Farmable_Sword_Orb=1
No_Missing_Orb=1
Weapons_Progression_Balance=0
_Level_8_Instead=0
_No_Level_9_Sword=0
_No_Free_Lunch=0
Circular_Forging=1
Chest_Rarity_Adjustment=1
Mana_Fortress_Rarity_Swap=0
Add_Ruby_Armet=0
Earlier_Midge_Mallet=0
Later_Midge_Mallet=1
Magical_Herb=0
Faerie_Coconut=0
Stardust_Herb=1
_Mint_Flavored=0
_Drop_And_Shop_Changes=1
Equipment_Tweaks=1
Elemental_Equipment=1
Energized_Weapons=1
Level_9_Weapon_Perk=1
[Balance]
{Balance}=1
Less_Fragile_Pygmy=0
Defensive_Petrify=1
Dangerous_Poison_And_Engulf=1
Killable_Snowmen=1
Weapon_Status_Chance=1
Double_Saber_Status_Chance=1
Bonus_Weapon_Damage=1
_Element_Match_Defense=1
_Doubled_Bonus_Damage=0
_Strong_Element_Immunity=1
Reduce_Moon_Saber_Healing=1
Persistent_Saber_Buffs=1
No_Neko_Price_Gouging=0
No_Heal_At_Level_Up=0
No_Item_Damage_Canceling=1
Spells_Pause_Gameplay=0
Spells_Cancel_Charging=0
Luna_And_Dryad_Weaknesses=0
Hittable_Vampires=0
Gigas_Bosses_Disassemble_Less=0
Gigas_Bosses_Never_Disassemble=0
Fire_Gigas_-_Flame_Saber=0
Wall_Face_-_Uncrushable_Barrels=1
Axe_Beak_-_Sonic_Sleep=1
Dark_Lich_-_Nether_Pursuit=1
Enemy_Type_And_Element_Changes=1
Enemy_Stat_Changes=1
Enemy_Reward_Changes=1
Enemy_Behavior_Changes=1
Harder_Final_Boss=1
Monster_Stat_Modifiers=0
Run_When_Tired=1
_Only_With_Speed_Up=1
[Quality_of_Life]
{Quality_of_Life}=1
Run_Freely=1
_Gradual_Turns_Only=0
_Run_Requires_D-Pad=1
Run_On_Trigger_Tiles=0
Run_After_Area_Change=0
No_Whip_Tile_Gather=0
Equip_2nd_Weapon=1
_Switch_Requires_R=1
All_Weapons_Destroy_Obstacles=1
QuickSpell_Hotkeys=0
New_Spell_Targeting_Controls=1
New_Fullscreen_Menu_Controls=1
MP_Shown_Within_Status_Area=0
MP_Shown_Below_Status_Area=1
CPUs_Dont_Block_Screen=1
Walk_To_Edges_Of_Screen=1
Scroll_Hack=1
Centered_Camera=0
Rearguard_Sprite=1
Personal_Space=0
Faster_Chest_Opening=1
Fastest_Chest_Opening=0
Dont_Despawn_Chests_When_Full=0
ACT_Defaults=0
Faster_Weapon_Grinding=1
Faster_Spell_Grinding=1
Neko_Distribution_Network=1
Watts_In_Haunted_Forest=1
Neko_In_Underground_City=0
Neko_And_Watts_In_Pure_Land=0
Neko_And_Watts_In_Fortress=1
Frosty_the_Friendly_Alchemist=1
Gaias_Navel_Girl=0
Sand_Ship_Guard_Pause=1
Remove_Barrels_On_Run=1
_Barrels_Disable_Attack_Button=1
Boy_Dislikes_Nuts=1
Inverted_Ring_Menu_Rotation=0
Inverted_Shop_Menu_Rotation=0
Reverse_L_and_R_Hotkeys=0
Damage_Feedback=1
[Text]
{Text}=1
VWF_Edition=1
Proper-caser=1
Relocalized=1
Reborn=1
_Proportional_Font=1
Font_-_Menu_Outlines=1
Font_-_Chicago=0
Mixed_Case_Naming=1
_Disable_Auto_Casing=1
Abortable_Dialog=1
Skill_Screen_Spaces=1
Shops_Show_Item_Count=1
True_Monster_Names=0
Logical_Goblin_Names=0
Weapon_Skil_TextFix=1
Cave_In_TextFix=1
Tangled_Up_TextFix=1
Event_Fixes=1
[Graphics]
{Graphics}=1
Turbo_HUD=0
Trim_Portraits=1
Functional_Fashion=1
Retouched_Characters=1
Manicured_Monsters=1
Unspoiled_Spells=1
Polished_Weapons=1
Restore_Warp_Tiles=1
Modify_Menu_Icons=1
Menu_Controller_Icon=1
Japanese_Button_Colors=1
Text_Box_Wait_Indicator=1
Fancy_Text_Box_Transitions=0
Better_Default_Text_Boxes=0
Alternate_Text_Boxes=0
_Candy_Cane=0
No_Text_Boxes=0
No_Eyeless_Girl=1
Faerie_Coconut_Replacement=0
Alternate_Karon=1
_Wandering_Helmsman=0
Decode_Menu_Icons=1
Encode_Menu_Icons=0
Decode_Combat_Art=1
Encode_Combat_Art=0
[Audio]
{Audio}=1
Enable_MSU-1=0
_ZSNES_MSU-1=0
_Random_MSU_or_SPC=0
_Async_Music_Crossfade=0
Faster_Music_Crossfade=0
Restartable_Attack_Sounds=1
Restore_Unused_Fanfares=1
Different_Fortress_Boss_Music=0
Upbeat_Elinees_Castle=1
Sad_Moogle_Village=1
Echoey_Matango_Caves=1
SFX_Channel_Limit=0
No_Music=0
[Miscellaneous]
{Miscellaneous}=1
New_Game_Plus=0
No_Drum_Respawn=1
Day_Night_Cycle=0
_No_Morning_Or_Evening=0
Enhanced_World_Map=1
_Swap_Up_and_Fly_Hotkeys=1
_Slow_Flat_Map=0
Enable_Kilroy_Door=1
Enable_Matango_Caves_Trap=1
Restore_Kettle_Kin=1
Restore_Aegagropilon=1
Sheex_-_Master_Ninja=1
Revisit_Potos=0
Revisit_Goblin_Village=1
Revisit_Kakkara_Desert=1
Revisit_Sunken_Continent=1
Revisit_Pure_Land=1
Accessible_Ramparts=0
Flooded_Staircase=1
Remove_Empire_Castle_Gate=1
_Wandering_Truffle=0
No_Missable_Monsters=0
Turtles_on_Turtle_Shell_Isle=0
Steal_From_Matango_Innkeeper=1
Steal_From_Pecard=1
Mandala_Temple_Treasure=1
Gaias_Navel_Treasure=0
_Navel_Immodesty=0
Northtown_Woods_Treasure=1
Generous_Gold_Chests=1
Centered_Inn_Bed=1
Diverse_Chest_Traps=1
Multiplicative_Change_Form=0
Alternate_Transform_List=1
Alternate_Shape_Shifter_List=1
Mimic_Box_Rewards=0
Wiggly_Balloons=1
Enable_Paralyze_Status=1
[Title_Screen]
{Title_Screen}=1
Turbo_Logo=1
Turbo_Song=0
Restore_Title_Screen=1
Deblock_Filter=1
Animate_Palette=0
Music_Fade_Fallback=1
Clean_Aesthetic=1
Japanese_Legalese=1
Override_White_Palette=1
Days_of_Mana=0
[Bug_Fixes]
{Bug_Fixes}=1
Event_Animation_Safety=1
Cutscene_Movement_Speed=1
Late_HDMA_Fix=1
Mode_7_Boss_UI=1
Animation_Memory_Corruption=1
Whip_8th_Charge_Animation=1
Spell_Palette_Cycle_Speed=1
Ring_Menu_Loader=1
Final_Fight_Graphics=1
Blue_Sky_Blink_Fix=1
Backdoor_Music=1
Tropicy_Music=1
Consistent_Shadows=1
Second_Brambler_Position_Fix=1
Boss_Defeat_Controller_State=1
Text_Box_Overlap=1
Flight_Waits_For_Events=1
Defeat_Waits_For_Events=1
Big_Health_And_Mana_Support=1
Far_Western_Todo=1
Dark_Lich_Head_Bang_Fix=1
Deathless_Foe_Fix=1
Final_Saber_Hit=1
Lucid_Barrier_Defense=1
Boss_Loader_Buffer_Overflow=1
Text_Box_Palette_Loader=1
Flakey_Snowflakes=1
Stereo_Panning_Fix=1
Initial_Distance=1
Equipment_Trashing_Fix=1
No_Blats_To_Sell=1
Dialog_Debuffs=1
Boss_Block_Fix=1
Missable_Spear_Fix=1
Barrel_Scramble_Fix=1
Tsunami_Scramble_Fix=1
Hit_Chance_Fix=1
Orb_Overflow_Event=1
Auto_Talk_Fix=1
Whip_Post_Fix=1
Mana_Magic_Endless_Fix=1
Mana_Magic_Unequip_Fix=1
Boss_Rendering_Fix=1
Tidy_Map_Pieces=1
Temple_Fountain=1
Permadeath_Fix=1
Offscreen_Ring_Menu=1
Overcharge_Fix=1
Super_Change_Form=1
Armor_Wisdom_Stat=1
Mode_7_Rendering_Fix=1
Gather_Party_Fix=1
Weapon_Upgrade_BugFix=1
No_Exp_When_Killing_Allies=1
Ghosts_Dont_Block_Projectiles=1
King_Goes_To_Bed=1
Elman_Stops_Stammering=1
Ice_Castle_No_Drum=0
Pandora_Barracks_No_Rope=1
Northtown_Ruins_Better_Rope=1
Wind_Temple_Entrance_Trap=1
Pure_Land_Cave_Trap=1
Ice_Country_Neko_Landing=1
Soft_Reset_Reinit=1
[Technical]
{Technical}=1
Safe_Save_State=0
_Pause_Gameplay_Only=0
Disable_Soft_Reset=0
Validate_Items=0
Checksum_Bypass=0
Exception_Handler=1
Overwrite_Unused_Data=1
Internal_SFROM_Header=0
Internal_SFROM_Footer=0
VC_without_PCM=1
SNESCE_Mempatch=0
Enable_FastROM=1
_Disable_Snes9x_Workaround=0
Fake_50Hz=0
Generate_SFROM_File=0
(Helper_Script)=1
[Advanced Options]
Allied_CPU_Reaction_Time=01
Weapon_Status_Chance=21
Party_Follow_Distance=30
Default_ACT_Setting=0
Chest_Drop_Chance=1F
Chest_Rare_Chance=1F
Weapon_Experience_Value=A
Spell_Experience_Value=C
Default_Text_Box_Style=3
Long_Magic_Recharge_Time=00D0
Medium_Magic_Recharge_Time=00C0
Short_Magic_Recharge_Time=00B0
Undine_Default_Level=0
Gnome_Default_Level=0
Sylphid_Default_Level=1
Salamando_Default_Level=1
Shade_Default_Level=2
Lumina_Default_Level=2
Luna_Default_Level=2
Dryad_Default_Level=3
Enemy_HP_Scalar=2
Enemy_MP_Scalar=2
Enemy_XP_Scalar=2
Enemy_GP_Scalar=2
Boss_HP_Scalar=2
Boss_MP_Scalar=2
Boss_XP_Scalar=2
Boss_GP_Scalar=2
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 06:08:37 am by hmsong »

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210126
« Reply #1746 on: January 28, 2021, 08:56:14 am »
Oh wow.  I didn't know about Shepherd's Purse name of a plant.  Thanks for that.  Still, I doubt that was the original intended name (which was what Reborn was intending on doing).  And I'm sure most people would be quite confused with that name.  Haha.

Oh right, there was that Reborn's message mix that I didn't particularly like (I didn't like the whole "xxx got whacked" thing, but Reborn was trying to stay faithful to the vanilla, so it's understandable).

Reborn tries to be the best possible English language script based on a retranslation, feedback from fans, cleaning up the original script, etc.  To that end, each decision comes from a unique place, and "trying to stay faithful to the vanilla" is rarely correct on its face, even when we matched vanilla.  In the example you bring up, our translator implored us to stick with Woolsey's iconic message rather than revert to "[monster] is critically hit" for good reasons.

This is the explanation for Shepherd's Purse:

Code: [Select]
likely a play on penpen gusa ぺんぺん草, the colloquial name for the herb nazuna ナズナ, shepherd’s purse. (If you hold it up and spin the stem between your fingers, the chunky heart-shaped leaves bump against each other and make a quiet slapping sound: “pen pen.” Here, the katakana is “pui pui” as a joke.)

Of course, you can't please everyone when making these decisions, and some things will go over many heads. Taosenai's upcoming translation is more traditional (i.e. "Dyluck" is back to "Dirac"), but in those two cases, I think they're the same way they are in Reborn.

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1747 on: January 28, 2021, 03:35:18 pm »
Version 2021-01-28:
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_Turbo.210128.zip

Changes:
- fixed a text rendering bug with spell targeting in Text\Reborn\Proportional_Font
- implemented Graphics\Mushroom_Cap_Replacement; replaces the Ruby Armet (unused in vanilla) with a pre-release item (same stats and color, just a different name and icon)



hmsong, whew, was finally able to reproduce the bug you were seeing; thank you. It required specific-length text (MiniNeptune for example), and specific actions (back-to-back ring menu text and spell casting message text) that weren't properly resetting all of the text rendering temporary variables (a mistake in my code).

For your personal patch(es), do you have edits you've made all over the place and you sometimes turn them On/Off, or are they all in one place? I could add an empty "file" at the very end of the Turbo ZPS that's always loaded last during the patching process where you could put all of your personal hacks, so that with each update you could just copy&paste your stuff to the very end of the file if you think that'd be easier.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1748 on: January 28, 2021, 06:00:27 pm »
More out-of-bounds text in the Shade speech:

https://imgur.com/a/bthkAiZ

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1749 on: January 28, 2021, 06:19:47 pm »
There was a bug in the earlier 210128 update that warranted an emergency update. It's been replaced as of the writing of this post.

Quote from: ManaRedux
More out-of-bounds text in the Shade speech:
https://imgur.com/a/bthkAiZ

This specific issue should have been resolved by the 210126 update. I just went and checked Shade with today's build and didn't see anything go out of bounds.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1750 on: January 28, 2021, 06:41:55 pm »
Thanks for fixing the text error.  Man, you work fast.

For your personal patch(es), do you have edits you've made all over the place and you sometimes turn them On/Off, or are they all in one place? I could add an empty "file" at the very end of the Turbo ZPS that's always loaded last during the patching process where you could put all of your personal hacks, so that with each update you could just copy&paste your stuff to the very end of the file if you think that'd be easier.

I did indeed made slight edits all over the place, but now that you brought up the idea that you could add an empty space somewhere at the end where people can just add their own "tweaks", that sounds great.  That way, I can just copy and paste, just as you said.  Yes, please do that.  It doesn't have to be just for me -- it can be for anyone (should anyone feel like adding their own tweaks, like me).  Maybe have a "Personal Tweaks" and not have anything there -- that way, even if it's on, it won't affect anything for people who don't tweak.

Thank you in advance.


Reborn tries to be the best possible English language script based on a retranslation, feedback from fans, cleaning up the original script, etc.  To that end, each decision comes from a unique place, and "trying to stay faithful to the vanilla" is rarely correct on its face, even when we matched vanilla.  In the example you bring up, our translator implored us to stick with Woolsey's iconic message rather than revert to "[monster] is critically hit" for good reasons.

This is the explanation for Shepherd's Purse:

Code: [Select]
likely a play on penpen gusa ぺんぺん草, the colloquial name for the herb nazuna ナズナ, shepherd’s purse. (If you hold it up and spin the stem between your fingers, the chunky heart-shaped leaves bump against each other and make a quiet slapping sound: “pen pen.” Here, the katakana is “pui pui” as a joke.)

Of course, you can't please everyone when making these decisions, and some things will go over many heads. Taosenai's upcoming translation is more traditional (i.e. "Dyluck" is back to "Dirac"), but in those two cases, I think they're the same way they are in Reborn.

Oh wow.  I did not know that.  I played the original SD2 (Japanese), and it said Puipui Gusa, so I just took that literally.  I had no idea where the name originated.  Not that my limited 1 year of Japanese would help much.  Thanks for that knowledge.

If I find some "errors" (this is open for interpretation) in Reborn, do I report that here (in Queue's forum) or yours? (Reborn forum)  For example, in the opening text crawl (text crawl in the title screen, not when you start the game), one of the text said:
Quote
The blade has had many names in myth, legend and saga,

But I think it should be (with comma):
Quote
The blade has had many names in myth, legend, and saga,

Actually, I think they should be plural, so:
Quote
The blade has had many names in myths, legends, and sagas,
But I don't know how that would work in text crawl spacing.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1751 on: January 28, 2021, 06:47:03 pm »
There was a bug in the earlier 210128 update that warranted an emergency update. It's been replaced as of the writing of this post.

This specific issue should have been resolved by the 210126 update. I just went and checked Shade with today's build and didn't see anything go out of bounds.

Wow!  Great work.  So much to keep track of.

I got a Cure Water message glitch (the same one from way back):

https://imgur.com/a/lbp2GEg

The Sprite didn't have the boomerang.  Not sure if this was fixed too (i.e. if it was part of spell targeting).

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1752 on: January 28, 2021, 07:25:47 pm »
The version you're on, the boomerang issue is definitely fixed, so not even a concern.

That picture most likely shows the bug I fixed today. In hmsong's picture's you could see the "e" from the end of "MiniNeptune" glued on the front (since the highlighted target message came just before the spell cast message). With yours, I don't really know where "ll" is coming from, but it should be from the end of whatever message preceded it.

Basically, some ring menu text and spell message text weren't resetting the text printing data completely so they were getting a fragment of the previous message's final character glued onto the beginning of the new text. I mean... that sounds complicated when I read it back, but it's just complicated to describe, what was actually wrong was pretty simple.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1753 on: January 28, 2021, 07:30:44 pm »
Oh wow.  I did not know that.  I played the original SD2 (Japanese), and it said Puipui Gusa, so I just took that literally.  I had no idea where the name originated.  Not that my limited 1 year of Japanese would help much.  Thanks for that knowledge.

If I find some "errors" (this is open for interpretation) in Reborn, do I report that here (in Queue's forum) or yours? (Reborn forum)  For example, in the opening text crawl (text crawl in the title screen, not when you start the game), one of the text said:
But I think it should be (with comma):
Actually, I think they should be plural, so:But I don't know how that would work in text crawl spacing.

The opening crawl mimics the Japanese opening (which was written in English) with additional content from the English opening.  The mistakes are faithful to the source.  ;D

The main SAP thread may be better for suggestions but there's nothing wrong with comments here too.  Turbo implements Reborn, and Queue worked a lot on the script too (and I follow this thread as well, not that I've been very helpful as of late). 

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1754 on: January 28, 2021, 08:23:13 pm »
The mistakes are faithful to the source.  ;D

Lol.  Japanese are terrible at English.  Still, I would think that "fixing" mistakes was one of the goals of SAP, not just blindly follow it.  Maybe.

I'll post errors/suggestions on both forums.

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1755 on: January 28, 2021, 08:48:09 pm »
Quote from: hmsong
Maybe have a "Personal Tweaks" and not have anything there -- that way, even if it's on, it won't affect anything for people who don't tweak.
Yeah, that's what I'll do. It'll be applied at the very end of the patching process so it'll overwrite any previous patches. I'll explain it when I add it, but it should be as easy as: very bottom of the ZPS file, put whatever you want there. I really wish it could be a separate file, but the ZPS format just doesn't seem to support that: in release mode, it expects everything to be in one single ZPS file.

On the topic of Reborn:

A fair bit of research and debate went into Shepherd's Purse. That is almost definitely the plant the original authors intended, and just gave a joke name to (a pun variant of an onomatopoeic nickname for the plant). The icon doesn't really fit the plant, but you can probably blame the icon artist for that; based on pre-release images, the icon was probably made late in development after and separately from when it was named.

Quote
The blade has had many names in myths, legends, and sagas,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma
Also called the Oxford comma.
SoM uses American English, not British English (ours is better: we omit useless u's, actually use the letter z, don't have an unnecessary comma, and know how to spell fetus). That was basically all a joke. Mostly.

The prose is slightly poetic which forgives fragmentation and strict grammar, and regardless, pluralizing those words is unnecessary.

I'm not trying to discourage you from reporting that stuff though, just there's not actually anything wrong with that specific text. If nothing else, height and width during the intro text crawl is highly limited, and we've already packed it full to bursting: it only barely finishes before it runs out of time and restarts.

And either thread works. You don't need to report the same thing in both places: all that matters is that ManaRedux and/or I see it, and I'm pretty sure we'd see posts in either thread.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1756 on: January 28, 2021, 08:59:02 pm »
Man, I'm learning English and plant names and history more here than I learn from schools.  Okay, maybe not, but my point is that I'm learning a lot here.

Okay, I'll post the errors/suggestions in either thread, but not both.  I guess posting on both would be kinda weird, since both of you will be keeping up with both threads.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1757 on: January 28, 2021, 09:16:41 pm »
I assume this is a vanilla bug, but it's never happened to me before.  If the tongue animation is in a certain spot and the boss is killed, a player can be stuck in the middle of nowhere:

https://imgur.com/a/ZasKVRW

It can be fixed with a Magic Rope.

January 29, 2021, 09:41:41 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Quote
Lol.  Japanese are terrible at English.  Still, I would think that "fixing" mistakes was one of the goals of SAP, not just blindly follow it.  Maybe.

It actually is grammatically correct.  Just comes off a bit archaic and florid.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 10:42:35 pm by ManaRedux »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1758 on: January 29, 2021, 10:03:13 pm »
Whoa. Yeah, should definitely be a vanilla issue, but don't think I've ever witnessed it firsthand, or even seen a screenshot of it. Also somewhat wild that the Magic Rope works there. Boss fight rooms often teleport you somewhere afterward, partially as a safety against that sort of issue, but not that boss type.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210128
« Reply #1759 on: January 30, 2021, 01:12:56 pm »
I'm playing around with SoMEdit for the first time in years.  A lot of folks I've spoken to have tried to make their own maps which just crash the game; I imagine the editor doesn't do a good job of parsing the maximum number of whatever on each map.

Some random things I found:

1)What the heck is going on with map #335?  I assume all of this is the Scorpion Village?  Looks like there's an unused armor shop, one of the houses has map pieces all over it, and they reused the Cannon man's house in Kippo...but that's not in the actual game.

2)The cafe in the Sergo/Phanna prerelease shot seems to have been repurposed for Mandala.  Look at map #342 in the bottom left corner.  The stairs and rear door were removed, but the rest is mostly the same.  Of course, this house was excised from the final anyway.  There's only two doors that lead to this map with three houses.  There's an inaccessible house in Mandala with no front door, perhaps that's why there was a rear door?

3)Wowsers, map #350 has a slew of unused doors.  Is this the Moon Palace?

4)Map #391, is there any reason why Sheex would've been coded differently here?

5)Is it possible that any of the garbled exterior maps (i.e. #1, #4), correspond to the prerelease areas we've found?

6)Karon's Ferry #32 has unused doors, not surprisingly.

7)Why are all the paths in the Ice Country blocked off with rocks? (i.e. #83)

8)Unused doors on map #128?

9)A host of unused doors in #161 (first floor of Pandora Ruins)

10)Map #195 is beyond intricate.  That must've taken forever.

11)#198 tiled Mana Tree lol