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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210116  (Read 414104 times)

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201117
« Reply #1660 on: November 22, 2020, 06:13:24 pm »

tcianci

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Re: Workaround for frequent music cutouts, missing sounds thanks to MSU-1
« Reply #1661 on: November 23, 2020, 01:48:47 pm »
Finally got a chance to try this; nicely done. I didn't notice any flaws in the loops and it definitely is worthwhile to remove the remaining music load pauses (let alone avoiding instrument tracks cutting out).

For anyone concerned, I can attest to all the executables being the same as emuandco's, and beyond that, them being safe to use. Additionally, they don't write junk to the registry, %APPDATA%, etc.

I'm considering including the MSU-1 converter utilities in an "extras" folder (name not settled on yet) in the Turbo ZIP. Would you be alright with me including your selection of loop points (etc.)? If I go through with this, I'd likely be merging emuandco's convert.cmd with yours where the letter code entered selects which batch of music to convert; does that sound okay? I'll need to do a little leg work to check redistribution (etc.) permissions for all those executables, so this may not happen for a few releases, if at all.

Hi y'all
I'm sorry, I know it isn't the purpose of this topic, but I've been searching for a way to play SoM with the original soundtrack without those interruptions from sound effects

I found this post and PabloGaldino's mega link, but it's currently down. I tried to learn how to create PCMs by myself but found it impossible

If anyone can reupload this man's work, I'd be very grateful

Cheers

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201117
« Reply #1662 on: November 24, 2020, 02:51:10 pm »
The problem with your request as-is is that uploading the converted music tracks is copyright infringement. It may have been done before, but that didn't make it legal.

The first post has a link to the utilities and script that automate converting the 2018 Remake's music into MSU-1 compatible PCM, including with correct loop points. The 2018 Remake includes remixes of the music as well as "originals" which are effectively the same as the SNES audio.

Quote
Script and utilities to convert the 2018 Remake's soundtrack to MSU-1 compatible PCM files (thanks to emuandco and PabloGaldini):
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_HD_to_MSU-1.200122.zip

Obviously this requires that you own the 2018 Remake, but that's sort've the point.

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201117
« Reply #1663 on: November 24, 2020, 04:36:05 pm »
Hi, long time lurker here. My first experience of SoM was in 1997 and it has been a dear favourite of mine ever since.
I have been following the various enhancement hacks for this game and tried to keep up with the details of all the projects as best as I could. It great to see most of the stuff bundled together in this project. Due to the constant improvements of the patches I have been holding off trying them out so far though, to get a version that is as complete as possible  ;)

When going through the checklist in the patching program for Turbo, the amount of content is nothing short of amazing! Bugfixes for old games is always very satisfying to see and quality of life stuff is just fantastic along with the various other features. Still I must state that I'm very fond of the original stamina-system though..  ;)

I wanna thank every one involved in this project and all those who still play this magical game.
Looking forward to see where thing may lead in the future with this project and with the new SAP out!

lightninghunter

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201117
« Reply #1664 on: November 25, 2020, 01:10:33 pm »
Hi, long time lurker here. My first experience of SoM was in 1997 and it has been a dear favourite of mine ever since.
I have been following the various enhancement hacks for this game and tried to keep up with the details of all the projects as best as I could. It great to see most of the stuff bundled together in this project. Due to the constant improvements of the patches I have been holding off trying them out so far though, to get a version that is as complete as possible  ;)

When going through the checklist in the patching program for Turbo, the amount of content is nothing short of amazing! Bugfixes for old games is always very satisfying to see and quality of life stuff is just fantastic along with the various other features. Still I must state that I'm very fond of the original stamina-system though..  ;)

I wanna thank every one involved in this project and all those who still play this magical game.
Looking forward to see where thing may lead in the future with this project and with the new SAP out!

Hey there, I was pretty much in the same boat as you (SOM fan since it came out), and I also had been watching this hack and waiting for it to become a bit more stable before playing it. However, I realized this patch is more of a compilation of works rather than just a single hack, and in that regard, it may never be "completed" per say. There are always hacks and patches being made for SOM, and any one of them could be added to this collection down the road. I would recommend playing this now, because there is more than enough (stable) content to make SOM feel like a completely fresh experience. Anything else added down the road will just be icing on the cake. It is actually better that you familiarize yourself with all the content now, so that later when new stuff is added, you can decide if you want to use it or not.

There might be a few small bugs depending on how many patches you apply, but if you report them to Queue, he is very quick at fixing them! :)

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201117
« Reply #1665 on: November 26, 2020, 05:18:55 pm »
Hey there, I was pretty much in the same boat as you (SOM fan since it came out), and I also had been watching this hack and waiting for it to become a bit more stable before playing it. However, I realized this patch is more of a compilation of works rather than just a single hack, and in that regard, it may never be "completed" per say. There are always hacks and patches being made for SOM, and any one of them could be added to this collection down the road. I would recommend playing this now, because there is more than enough (stable) content to make SOM feel like a completely fresh experience. Anything else added down the road will just be icing on the cake. It is actually better that you familiarize yourself with all the content now, so that later when new stuff is added, you can decide if you want to use it or not.

There might be a few small bugs depending on how many patches you apply, but if you report them to Queue, he is very quick at fixing them! :)

Yeah and what a collection it is! Being able to select exactly which parts of the different hacks to install is great, and with this vast amount of features available I'm mainly holding out for the inclusion of an improved translation at this point. While I'll probably avoid a playthrough until such a breakthrough is had, i agree it's a good idea to try out the new features to see how it plays.

Thanks for your input!

darthvaderx

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201117
« Reply #1666 on: November 26, 2020, 06:41:19 pm »
Your next updates will include SoM Script Augmentation Project/SoM translation by The SAP Team?
See my hacks channel including some of my works:

https://www.youtube.com/user/MyWashington2/videos

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201126
« Reply #1667 on: November 26, 2020, 07:15:17 pm »
Version 2020-11-26:
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_Turbo.201126.zip

Changes:
- Added some VWF Edition and Relocalized spelling fixes to Text\Event_Fixes (quiting, I'm was)
- Added a bow graphical variant to Graphics\Polished_Weapons
- Rewrote projectile graphics loader hook for Combat\Strong_And_Weak_Attacks; should be more efficient, hopefully no side effects
- Compatibility improvement for Quality_of_Life\Faster_Chest_Opening's animations, shouldn't affect most people (it was conflicting with a hidden DEBUG_MODE)



Your next updates will include SoM Script Augmentation Project/SoM translation by The SAP Team?
"Soon."
I've been slowly adding the foundation to integrate it, but it requires an enormous amount of compatibility fixups and verification. There are still a few showstoppers to deal with before it's ready.

[...]it may never be "completed"[...]
Most likely I'll get bored with this someday and then probably drop it cold turkey. I assumed that was going to happen like a year and a half ago, but here I am, still plodding along, still enjoying it.

Due to the constant improvements of the patches I have been holding off trying them out so far though, to get a version that is as complete as possible
I do genuinely understand. I almost never touch modding a game until it's totally done because the type of stuff I like to do is often fragile by nature no matter how robust I try to make it and I don't like remaking the same thing because the game updated and broke what I'd made. Even more frustrating is when driver or OS changes affect things and I have to add compatibility fixups to cover for what is often pure incompetence (I'm looking at you WDDM 2.1).

I've gone out of my way to make sure SoM save data stays compatible regardless of enabled / disabled patch features, and Safe_Save_State even allows a means for save states to be compatible when changing patch settings / updating, as long as the save state is taken while paused (via the Safe_Save_State start-button pause). So, still up to you, but changes are actually pretty slow and minor these days, and if a change is released while you're playing, it's not impossible to just update your patched ROM and continue playing (note that you should always feed a vanilla unmodified ROM to the ZPS Patcher; what I just wrote could be read as suggesting you feed a patched ROM back through the patcher, but that would be a bad idea).
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 12:50:07 am by Queue »

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201126
« Reply #1668 on: November 26, 2020, 07:52:21 pm »
Apologies as I'm sure you've talked about this before...but when will Turbo no longer be considered Beta?

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201126
« Reply #1669 on: November 26, 2020, 09:54:27 pm »
Possibly never: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_beta

But the definition of beta I subscribe to doesn't necessarily mean buggy or incomplete (and something that's "final" isn't necessarily bug-free, see vanilla Secret of Mana for an example), more like, maybe still in development.

For my hobby software, I have an alpha phase which isn't public, and then I start labeling it beta if I do a public release (if it's worth version labeling at all). Then usually it stays beta as long as I'm working on it. Then maybe 50 / 50 chance I release a "final" version when I stop working on it (the other 50% I just stop). For certain types of software I don't use the word beta (e.g. when the reliability of the software will be meaningfully misjudged if it has that label), but modifying video games does not need that sort of accommodation.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 09:59:50 pm by Queue »

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201126
« Reply #1670 on: November 27, 2020, 12:21:55 pm »
Being able to keep save files compatible with updated patches is just awesome.
I'll try it out and experiement a bit the different tweaks soon, actually one of the mods I look forward to the most is
the one that keep the AI from getting stuck :thumbsup:

I really hope everything works out with the SAP, wish I could help out in some way but it's way beyond my skills.
Once again, thanks for putting everything together! Both to Queue and the authors of the included hacks!

Feels unreal that our beloved SoM with all it's flaws is finally shaping up to be the game it deserved to be all along! :)

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201130
« Reply #1671 on: November 30, 2020, 03:25:31 pm »
Version 2020-11-30:
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_Turbo.201130.zip

Changes:
- Added compatibility between No_Eyeless_Girl and Consistent_Shadows
- Created new art for the controller indicator for Graphics\Turbo_HUD
- Fixed a 1 pixel mistake in the weapon charge level 4 max numeral for Graphics\Turbo_HUD
- Code enhancement for Graphics\Polished_Weapons in preparation for future work



I'm considering seeking pixel art assistance to make alternate weapon graphics to add variety to weapon appearance (beyond the vanilla palette swaps, boomerangs, and what I already managed with flails and, to a lesser extent, bows). I'm currently evaluating the best way to present the game's graphics data for editing. I suppose even if someone just wanted to edit the graphics on something like:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/secretofmana/sheet/141078/
I could probably work with that. The crucial parts are that the color limit is adhered to (generally transparent + 4 colors + 1 color for flashing action lines; though bows use the flashing color for their bow string and arrow highlights, shurikens use it for highlights, but boomerangs don't use it at all), you can't choose your palette, and that I don't currently plan to make new animation frames so weapon tile dimensions have to be adhered to. Looking at the art, the spear and sword appear to be the easiest to work with and, given its role in the story, how neat would it be if every sword had a distinct appearance?

I'm not committed to this idea yet though, so if anyone does take me up on it, work on it with the understanding that I might not use what you make.

fracto

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201130
« Reply #1672 on: December 03, 2020, 08:46:34 am »
Should I use turbo for a first playthrough or WVF+ scroll hack or Vanilla

2tack

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201130
« Reply #1673 on: December 03, 2020, 11:08:09 am »
Should I use turbo for a first playthrough or WVF+ scroll hack or Vanilla

I would go with VWF+ scroll hack. I haven't tried the new retranslation yet, but that and the scroll hack may be a good combo as well.


Queue,
I've seen in FF4 T-Edition the hacker was able to get the FF Record Keeper sprites and import them.

Out of curiosity, after all your work with this, do you think the mobile port sprites would be possible? That is assuming a full rip of the sprite sheets could be obtained.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 05:48:19 pm by 2tack »

fracto

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201130
« Reply #1674 on: December 03, 2020, 11:26:45 am »
No WAY dude, its you again? I saw you on Reddit. Unless, its not you

2tack

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201130
« Reply #1675 on: December 04, 2020, 01:04:17 pm »
No WAY dude, its you again? I saw you on Reddit. Unless, its not you

Yes it's me. I am everywhere.

boff

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201130
« Reply #1676 on: December 05, 2020, 01:11:04 am »
Yes it's me. I am everywhere.
Smith

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201204
« Reply #1677 on: December 05, 2020, 05:53:32 am »
Version 2020-12-04:
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_Turbo.201204.zip

Changes:
- Graphics\Manicured_Monsters
-- Rotated the enemy mini trident (fork) palette so it behaves better with spell and player palettes
-- Fixed compatibility code between Manicured_Monsters and Decode_Combat_Art
- Graphics\Polished_Weapons
-- Added new weapon aesthetic variants for axes and spears
-- Fixed glitchy graphics edge case for boomerang charge level 3
-- Implemented better (than vanilla) boomerang and shuriken rotation code

Here's an image from new weapon art development:

  • The spear just used some vanilla broadhead spear art as a base with a blob added to the end of the handle (to match some vanilla spear icon art).
  • The axe blade was from scratch, attached to a mostly vanilla handle, and I'm mostly happy with how it turned out.
  • The chakram is still in the prototyping phase and isn't in-game in this release. I can't figure out how to make it look... not bad.



fracto, it's tough to say. The vanilla game has a LOT of bugs, like, the game crashing and save ruining types of bugs. If you use an emulator that can rewind, or keep copious save states, that's a lot less of an issue.

In spite of what 2tack said, I'd recommend not using Scroll Hack as it introduces lots of visual bugs; mostly just aesthetic: seeing out of bounds, but it also makes many bosses go invisible if you walk to the left edge of their combat arenas. Within Turbo is Bug_Fixes\Boss_Rendering_Fix and Bug_Fixes\Tidy_Map_Pieces which deal with most of the visual issues of Scroll Hack, so if you do use Turbo in some capacity you can use Scroll Hack with fewer issues.

Otherwise, it's mainly what you want out of the vanilla game. You can usually tell within the first half hour if you like the gameplay (combat, etc.). If you like reading, consider a text hack, and if you don't want to read, leave the text vanilla.



I've seen in FF4 T-Edition the hacker was able to get the FF Record Keeper sprites and import them.

Out of curiosity, after all your work with this, do you think the mobile port sprites would be possible? That is assuming a full rip of the sprite sheets could be obtained.
I sorta doubt it would be realistically possible.
  • The art is higher resolution so would need to be downscaled for SNES constraints.
  • The palettes are pretty tightly tied to the vanilla art, so would likely be a huge challenge to adapt that remake's art to.
  • It's highly unlikely that sprites are tile-based in that remake so fitting the graphics to SNES tiles would be quite the feat.
  • Considering there can be as many as 256 frames of animation per weapon type per playable character, that's a nightmarish amount of work just for the 3 heroes (thankfully all 256 aren't used each, but many are). Wait, the animations have to be set up for 3 directions (up, down, left/right) so I guess it's even worse.
  • Tilesets can be as many as 192 16x16 tiles which are themselves composed of an arbitrary number and combination of 8x8 tiles, which have a really obnoxious encoding in SoM's data, so even if you adapted the art from that remake to SNES constraints, inserting it would totally suck.
Ripping the art from the cell phone remake isn't the hard part; extracting art is generally trivial. Fitting it to the constraints of the target game usually ranges from hard to impossible (redrawing it usually produces the most usable results, but takes time and talent). Inserting it into the target game usually ranges from easy to impossible.



Edit: Scrapping the chakram for now.

Instead, the next version will have unique art for the enigmatic Cobra Shuttle:
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 07:13:17 pm by Queue »

Dulcineax28

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201204
« Reply #1678 on: December 09, 2020, 11:34:14 am »
Hey Queue, found your project earlier last week and haven't been able to pull my hands off it since! I have quite a few questions to pick your brain on so I'll try to break them down cleanly and you can feel free to reply whenever you have time!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bugfixes:
Do you have a specific place for us to send bugs we find or is the forum here fine?

The biggest one I've found so far is some errors in enemy attack patterns with Turbo attacking on. Those being:

Kid Goblin will (almost) never swing his axe, he'll walk near you and occasionally throw boomerang, but typically that's it.
Iffish I can't seem to get an attack pattern off at all, just sometimes spellcasting?
Zombies will occasionally cast a spell on you but I believe they also aren't melee attacking whatsoever.

That being said the Turbo mode is absolutely amazing and completely reinvents the game, endlessly thankful for your work on a childhood title!

------------------------------------------------------------
Future plans:

Any chance you'll make Randomizer Rom files compatible in the future, or add some of the features from it to your project yourself? Notable standouts include:

Randomizing weapons and weapon orbs (Insane variability and replayability over the base game)

A difficulty slider (Which as far as I can tell mostly allows you to multiply or divide the attack power of every monster/boss in the game)

Enemy/Boss rearrangement or randomization (Even more replayability)

******* These last two are pipedreams of mine ********

I'd love to see all 3 players capable of casting magic and the ability to select who gets which spells in the in the launcher.

Bonus selectable stat points on level up, 2 or 3 points you can put in any stat of your choosing (I could see this one being incredibly difficult to code, consider it a huge curiosity of mine)
-------------------------------------------------

Any replies to this are hugely appreciated, and I can't wait to see what else you have coming! Cheers again mate :beer:

lightninghunter

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 201204
« Reply #1679 on: December 09, 2020, 02:42:27 pm »
Can't wait to check out those new graphics, Queue. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten to play SOM for weeks now, as work and life have been busy. I will eventually get back into my playthrough though!