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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191115  (Read 99895 times)

teahouser

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #720 on: October 17, 2019, 05:43:06 am »
teahouser and lexluthermiester, hm, want to get unkillable enemies figured out as soon as possible, but I'm failing to reproduce the problem. Can one or both of you post your SoM Turbo.ini file? Maybe to pastebin.com, or here within spoiler tags? I'm wondering if there's some combination of features that's causing it that aren't something I generally test. SoM Turbo.ini's just a simple text file, you can open it with Notepad.

I'm playing on a SNES Classic, so I think the save file is in a different format then normal emulators. Regardless, if my SNES Classic save file will work I'll happily send it to you. As far as what features I have applied, its very close to what you have it set from the start.

It just happened again with a Fiend Head, so I made a save state and tried to figure out what is triggering the unkillable enemies. I attack the Fiend Head and it takes damage as normal, Popoi then poisons it with Griffin Claws equipped, Fiend Head takes more damage while being poisoned, Fiend Head casts Hellfire Lv7, then immediately after the Hellfire animation is done and I can move my character again the Fiend Head has become invincible.

One thing in common is I have been using a lot of weapons at levels that grant them status ailments, Griffin Claws for poison, Hammer Whip for slow, Coral spear for sleep, Wing Bow for confuse and Imp's Fork for stun. Considering how Fiend Head was poisoned before casting Hellfire, then immediately after is unkillable, leads me to believe it has something to do with the enemy being poisoned/stunned/confused/put asleep, then the act of the enemy casting magic while having a status ailment makes it unkillable? That's my best guess atm, I'll try to make more save states with other enemies that become unkillable and see if I can figure out a pattern.

*Update*
Encountered an unkillable Tsunami, tried to figure out the trigger. Again, like Fiend Head, it happened after the Tsunami was poisoned. Once poisoned I think it did that clap thing to clone itself, making it become unkillable (the clone of itself it made is still killable). So far I'm still thinking it has something to do with the enemy having a status effect present, then it casts a spell or summons allies and a glitch sometimes takes place making them invincible?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 06:13:54 am by teahouser »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #721 on: October 17, 2019, 05:56:45 am »
It's not your save file that I'm after when I say "SoM Turbo.ini" but the ZPS Patcher config file, so I know exactly which features you have On and Off. When you use the ZPS Patcher to patch the ROM, in addition to the ROM .SMC file that's output, there's a SoM Turbo.ini file created. If you have file extensions hidden, it may just look like a text file with a gear on it, with the file type listed as "Configuration settings" (or something like that).

That said, lots of good info there for me to experiment on. And I think you have great taste in weapons.

teahouser

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #722 on: October 17, 2019, 06:23:13 am »
It's not your save file that I'm after when I say "SoM Turbo.ini" but the ZPS Patcher config file, so I know exactly which features you have On and Off. When you use the ZPS Patcher to patch the ROM, in addition to the ROM .SMC file that's output, there's a SoM Turbo.ini file created. If you have file extensions hidden, it may just look like a text file with a gear on it, with the file type listed as "Configuration settings" (or something like that).

That said, lots of good info there for me to experiment on. And I think you have great taste in weapons.

Oh ok I know what file you mean, here you go.
Spoiler:
[{unknown}]
V191016=1
[Combat]
{Combat}=1
Turbo_Mode=1
Strong_And_Weak_Attacks=1
Faster_Charging=1
Double_Stamina_Regen=1
Full_Percentage_Damage=1
Manual_Block=1
No_Automatic_Blocking=0
No_Damage_While_Recovering=1
Quick_Recovery=0
Quick_Numbers=1
Faster_Enemies=1
Quicker_Enemies=0
Faster_CPU_Allies=1
Better_CPU_Allies=0
[Magic]
{Magic}=1
Early_Luna=1
Magic_Recharging=1
Default_Spirit_Levels=0
Spell_System_Extensions=1
_Comprehensive_Dispel=1
_Stone_Saber_-_NPC_Version=1
_Blaze_Wall_-_NPC_Version=1
_Evil_Gate_-_NPC_Version=1
_Mud_Saber_-_Replaces_Stone_Saber=1
_Inferno_Barrier_-_Replaces_Blaze_Wall=1
_Shadow_Saber_-_Replaces_Evil_Gate=1
_Speed_Down_-_Hit_And_Evade_Down=1
_Speed_Up_-_Detangle=1
_Lunar_Magic_-_Celestial_Cascade=1
_Burst_-_Health_Cost=1
_Revivifier_-_Turn_Undead=1
_Dispel_Magic_-_Target_Allies=1
_Dust_Flare_-_Replaces_Fire_Bouquet=0
Spell_Power_Tweaks=1
Extend_Buff_Time=1
Acid_Storm_-_Magic_Def_Down=1
Speed_Up_-_Faster_Recharge=1
Lava_Wave_-_Engulf=1
Thunder_Saber_-_Silence=1
Light_Saber_-_Balloon=1
Lunar_Magic_-_Mana_Cost_Reduction=1
Moon_Energy_-_Mana_Cost_Reduction=0
Revivifier_-_Mana_Cost_Reduction=1
Herbal_Boost_-_Replaces_Moon_Energy=1
Hellfire_-_Replaces_Exploder=1
Evil_Gate_-_More_Useful=1
MP_Absorb_-_Reversible=1
HP_Absorb_-_Reversible=1
Moon_Saber_-_Reversible=1
Sleep_Flower_-_Poison=1
Spell_Balance_Overhaul=0
[Items]
{Items}=1
Unique_Equipment=1
Seven_Items_Max=0
Item_Limit_Increase=1
No_Default_Equipment=1
Farmable_Sword_Orb=1
No_Missing_Orb=1
Weapons_Progression_Balance=1
_No_Free_Lunch=0
Circular_Forging=1
Mana_Fortress_Rarity_Swap=1
Add_Ruby_Armet=1
Earlier_Midge_Mallet=0
Later_Midge_Mallet=0
Magical_Herb=1
Faerie_Coconut=1
Equipment_Tweaks=0
[Balance]
{Balance}=1
Less_Fragile_Pygmy=1
Defensive_Petrify=1
Dangerous_Poison_And_Engulf=1
Weapon_Status_Chance=1
Double_Saber_Status_Chance=1
Weapon_Affinity_Damage=1
Saber_Elemental_Damage=1
Reduce_Moon_Saber_Healing=1
Level_9_Weapon_Perk=1
No_Heal_At_Level_Up=0
Hittable_Vampires=0
Enemy_Type_And_Element_Changes=0
No_Item_Damage_Canceling=1
Spells_Cancel_Charging=0
Luna_And_Dryad_Weaknesses=1
Easier_or_Harder_Monsters=0
Run_When_Tired=1
[Quality_of_Life]
{Quality_of_Life}=1
Run_Freely=1
_Gradual_Turns_Only=1
_Run_Requires_D-Pad=0
Run_On_Trigger_Tiles=1
Run_After_Area_Change=1
Equip_2nd_Weapon=1
All_Weapons_Destroy_Obstacles=0
QuickSpell_Hotkeys=1
MP_Shown_Below_Status_Area=1
CPUs_Dont_Block_Screen=1
Walk_To_Edges_Of_Screen=1
Scroll_Hack=1
Centered_Camera=0
Faster_Chest_Opening=1
Dont_Despawn_Chests_When_Full=1
ACT_Defaults=1
Faster_Weapon_Grinding=1
Faster_Spell_Grinding=1
Watts_In_Haunted_Forest=1
Neko_In_Underground_City=1
Neko_And_Watts_In_Fortress=1
Gaias_Navel_Girl=0
Sand_Ship_Guard_Pause=1
Remove_Barrels_On_Run=1
_Barrels_Disable_Attack_Button=1
Boy_Dislikes_Nuts=1
Inverted_Ring_Menu_Rotation=1
Inverted_Shop_Menu_Rotation=1
Damage_Feedback=1
[Text]
{Text}=1
VWF_Edition=1
Proper-caser=1
Relocalized=1
Mixed_Case_Naming=1
_Disable_Auto_Casing=1
Skill_Screen_Spaces=1
Weapon_Skil_TextFix=1
Cave_In_TextFix=1
Tangled_Up_TextFix=1
[Graphics]
{Graphics}=1
Turbo_HUD=1
Trim_Portraits=1
Functional_Fashion=1
Retouched_Characters=1
Polished_Weapons=1
Restore_Warp_Tiles=1
Modify_Menu_Icons=1
Japanese_Button_Colors=0
Better_Default_Text_Boxes=1
Alternate_Text_Boxes=1
_Candy_Cane=0
Faerie_Coconut_Replacement=1
Alternate_Karon=1
Decode_Menu_Icons=1
Encode_Menu_Icons=0
Decode_Combat_Art=1
Encode_Combat_Art=0
[Audio]
{Audio}=1
Enable_MSU-1=0
_ZSNES_MSU-1=0
_Random_MSU_or_SPC=0
_Async_Music_Crossfade=0
Faster_Music_Crossfade=0
Restartable_Attack_Sounds=1
Restore_Unused_Fanfares=1
Different_Fortress_Boss_Music=1
Upbeat_Elinees_Castle=1
SFX_Channel_Limit=0
No_Music=0
[Miscellaneous]
{Miscellaneous}=1
New_Game_Plus=1
Day_Night_Cycle=1
_No_Morning_Or_Evening=0
Restore_Kettle_Kin=1
Restore_Aegagropilon=1
Sheex_-_Master_Ninja=1
Revisit_Goblin_Village=1
Revisit_Sunken_Continent=1
Revisit_Pure_Land=1
Accessible_Ramparts=1
Flooded_Staircase=1
Remove_Empire_Castle_Gate=1
Steal_From_Matango_Innkeeper=1
Steal_From_Pecard=1
Mandala_Temple_Treasure=1
Gaias_Navel_Treasure=0
_Navel_Immodesty=0
Northtown_Woods_Treasure=1
Centered_Inn_Bed=1
Diverse_Chest_Traps=1
Multiplicative_Change_Form=0
Alternate_Transform_List=0
Alternate_Shape_Shifter_List=0
Mimic_Box_Rewards=0
Wiggly_Balloons=1
Enable_Paralyze_Status=1
[Title_Screen]
{Title_Screen}=1
Turbo_Logo=1
Turbo_Song=1
Restore_Title_Screen=1
Deblock_Filter=1
Animate_Palette=1
Music_Fade_Fallback=1
Clean_Aesthetic=1
Japanese_Legalese=1
Override_White_Palette=1
[Bug_Fixes]
{Bug_Fixes}=1
Final_Saber_Hit=1
Lucid_Barrier_Defense=1
Boss_Loader_Buffer_Overflow=1
Text_Box_Palette_Loader=1
Flakey_Snowflakes=1
Stereo_Panning_Fix=1
Initial_Distance=1
Equipment_Trashing_Fix=1
No_Blats_To_Sell=1
Dialog_Debuffs=1
Boss_Block_Fix=1
Missable_Spear_Fix=1
Barrel_Scramble_Fix=1
Tsunami_Scramble_Fix=1
Hit_Chance_Fix=1
Orb_Overflow_Event=1
Auto_Talk_Fix=1
Whip_Post_Fix=1
Mana_Magic_Unequip_Fix=1
Boss_Rendering_Fix=1
Tidy_Map_Pieces=1
Temple_Fountain=1
Permadeath_Fix=1
Offscreen_Ring_Menu=1
Overcharge_Fix=1
Super_Change_Form=1
Armor_Wisdom_Stat=1
Mode_7_Rendering_Fix=1
Gather_Party_Fix=1
Weapon_Upgrade_BugFix=1
No_Exp_When_Killing_Allies=1
Ghosts_Dont_Block_Projectiles=1
King_Goes_To_Bed=1
Elman_Stops_Stammering=1
Ice_Castle_No_Drum=1
Pandora_Barracks_No_Rope=1
Northtown_Ruins_Better_Rope=1
Wind_Temple_Entrance_Trap=1
Pure_Land_Cave_Trap=1
Ice_Country_Neko_Landing=1
[Technical]
{Technical}=1
Safe_Save_State=1
_Pause_Gameplay_Only=1
Disable_Soft_Reset=0
Validate_Items=1
Checksum_Bypass=0
Exception_Handler=1
Overwrite_Unused_Data=1
VC_without_PCM=1
SNESCE_Mempatch=0
Enable_FastROM=0
Fake_50Hz=0
(Helper_Script)=1
[Advanced Options]
Allied_CPU_Reaction_Time=01
Weapon_Status_Chance=21
Default_ACT_Setting=0
Weapon_Experience_Value=A
Spell_Experience_Value=C
Default_Text_Box_Style=0
Long_Magic_Recharge_Time=00D0
Medium_Magic_Recharge_Time=00C0
Short_Magic_Recharge_Time=00B0
Undine_Default_Level=0
Gnome_Default_Level=0
Sylphid_Default_Level=1
Salamando_Default_Level=1
Shade_Default_Level=2
Lumina_Default_Level=2
Luna_Default_Level=2
Dryad_Default_Level=3
Enemy_HP_Scalar=2
Enemy_XP_Scalar=2
Enemy_GP_Scalar=2
Boss_HP_Scalar=2
Boss_XP_Scalar=2
Boss_GP_Scalar=2

Also I updated my last post, I think the Tsunami I encountered turned invincible after being poisoned, then claps his hands to clone himself, and viola, he's unkillable (but all the clone Tsunami's he spawns can be killed like normal)

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #723 on: October 17, 2019, 08:13:24 am »
I noticed one additional thing.  I'm not sure if it only applies to enemies, or to PCs too.  When Wolf Lord (in Mana Fortress) casts Moon Saber on himself, his defense goes up.  I was using the final spear on him with Randi, and I was at Lv99.  It normally did ~120 damage, but after he casted Moon Saber, it did ~40 damage.

I'm guessing there are others that affect their defense (poison SE, maybe?), since teahouser mentioned unkillable enemies.

Found another one.  At the end of the game, when you cast Mana Magics on Randi, he moves a bit (sometimes, just moves in a direction indefinitely).
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 10:27:52 am by hmsong »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #724 on: October 17, 2019, 03:53:22 pm »
Okay, was able to reproduce it, now to figure out the issue. The unkillable enemies are at 0 hp with the "dead" status effect set, but never played their death + despawn animation.

My hypothesis is that direct damage (like from poison) can kill an enemy during an action that blocks their death animation from playing; if so, this is a vanilla bug that's just made far more likely to occur due to beefed up poison damage (the odds of 1 damage per tick vanilla poison killing something during the necessary time window is far less likely than Turbo's magnified poison damage).

But, that's just a guess at the moment. Time to work through what's going wrong.

teahouser

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #725 on: October 17, 2019, 04:44:49 pm »
I'm glad you were able to reproduce the problem! Your hypothesis makes sense why it's hard to recreate, the poison has to drop the enemies hp to zero at the exact moment it's casting a spell/summoning animation that makes it immune to receiving damage normally.

Sounds like you're on the right trail, keep us posted on your findings!

Also I thought it was really cool and kinda eerie the way you described the unkillable enemies. That they had no life left, but were unable to despawn (move on to the afterlife) because they didn't have a proper death, so their spirits remain ingame, which we are unable to interact with. They're the video game equivalent to ghosts lol.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #726 on: October 17, 2019, 05:59:58 pm »
Oh, so that's what it is.  Poison Sleep Flower seems to kill enemies w/o any problem though.

I don't know how likely, but perhaps you can make it so that Poison and Engulf cannot kill an enemy (stops ticking at 1HP).  That will solve the issue.  Of course, making them NOT kill an enemy may be tough, in programming sense.

I just confirmed that in vanilla, Moon Saber (at least for Wolf Lord) did not raise DEF.  But in the current hack version, it does.  I'm not sure if the previous versions did that.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 08:10:49 pm by hmsong »

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #727 on: October 18, 2019, 01:42:27 am »
Got a range of new hacks.

First are 3 hacks that alter Undine spells (Cure Water, Remedy, and Energy Absorb) that all work best if combined together, but are totally usable independently.

New hack: "Cure Water Both Heals and Cures"

This hack alters Cure Water so that it actually does what it advertises: it cures your status ailments in addition to healing you. Basically now when casting Cure Water, the effects of Remedy / Medical Herb will also be applied. Beware though, enemies that cast Cure Water on themselves will also get this benefit.

Download for use on a vanilla ROM: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4740/

Download for use on a Turbo ROM with spell extensions enabled: http://kethinov.com/images/linked/som/curewater/SecretofManaCureWaterBothHealsandCures1.0Turbo.zip



New hack: "Energy Absorb for the Girl"

This hack replaces the girl's somewhat useless Remedy spell with a copy of the sprite's Energy Absorb spell. This gives her another damage-dealing spell to bolster the vanishingly small number she has in her original roster. Also since Energy Absorb is both battle magic and restorative, it fits the theme of her spell list pretty well because she is supposed to have mostly restorative rather than battle magic.

Download for use on a vanilla ROM: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4741/

Download for use on a Turbo ROM with spell extensions enabled: http://kethinov.com/images/linked/som/energyabsorb/SecretofManaEnergyAbsorbfortheGirl1.1Turbo.zip



New hack: "Freezing Rain"

This hack replaces the sprite's Energy Absorb spell with a new damage-dealing spell called Freezing Rain. What distinguishes Freezing Rain from other damage-dealing spells is that it is the only damage-dealing spell that costs 1MP, but is fairly weak at 16 spell power. Nevertheless, this should come in handy in a range of situations, such as if you only have 1MP left and want to drain all your MP before restoring it with a Faerie Walnut or something.

Note: To combine this with Proper-caser, apply Proper-caser and this hack first, then apply the companion Proper-caser compatibility hack last.

Download for use on a vanilla ROM: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4742/

Download for use on a Turbo ROM with spell extensions enabled: http://kethinov.com/images/linked/som/freezingrain/SecretofManaFreezingRain1.1Turbo.zip



New hack: "Matango Caves Treasure"

A new 50gp chest hidden in a previously useless dead end in Matango Caves.

Download: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4516/ (bundled as part of "Overworld Hidden Treasure" on RHDN in version 1.6)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 03:13:59 am by kethinov »

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #728 on: October 18, 2019, 03:43:21 am »
Okay, was able to reproduce it, now to figure out the issue. The unkillable enemies are at 0 hp with the "dead" status effect set, but never played their death + despawn animation.

My hypothesis is that direct damage (like from poison) can kill an enemy during an action that blocks their death animation from playing; if so, this is a vanilla bug that's just made far more likely to occur due to beefed up poison damage (the odds of 1 damage per tick vanilla poison killing something during the necessary time window is far less likely than Turbo's magnified poison damage).

But, that's just a guess at the moment. Time to work through what's going wrong.
Was about to post mine, but I looked and it's about the same as teahouser's so it would be redundant. It seems you have the problem identified. If you need help testing, let me know.

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #729 on: October 18, 2019, 04:04:18 am »
kethinov I would probably nerf cure water a bit if it cures status as well as restores hp at the same time, while raising it's mp cost to 3 or 4 perhaps.

October 18, 2019, 04:05:09 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Also I suppose bosses like vampire do still cast energy absorb?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 04:48:57 am by Mr X »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #730 on: October 18, 2019, 04:50:09 am »
@kethinov

I think Eye Spy (and probably Wizard Eye) casts Remedy on his allies if they are inflicted with SE.  Now, with the new Primm's Energy Absorb, Eye Spy will kill their own allies when they're inflicted with SE (feels like kicking a guy when he's down, from their own allies, no less).  Or kill itself if they're demon/undead.

If you want to talk about a useless corner, then there's one in Gold Isle.  There's a useless area in the SW corner (I think), but you can't see the way in easily, because the roof is in the way.

October 18, 2019, 10:04:28 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

@Queue

I thought about kethinov's No Missable Monsters patch, and I think he's right that some people would indeed like having access to all the lost monsters by the end of the game.  So I made a mod, by using your [Day_Night_Cycle].  This can be a sub-patch under [Day_Night_Cycle]:

Description:
Quote
[_Un_Extinct_Monsters]

In vanilla, some monsters go extinct after certain plot points.  The default [Day_Night_Cycle] patch made some of those monsters available at night outdoors.  This patch adds more:

  Haunted Forest:
  - Evil Sword
  - Polter Chair
  - Werewolf (default)

  Upper Land:
  - Chess Knight
  - Goblin (+Ma Goblin)
  - Tomato Man (+Zombie)

  Ice Country:
  - Specter (default)

  Kakkara Desert:
  - Robin Foot
  - Sand Stinger

  Northtown:
  - Red Drop

  Lofty Mountains
  - Dark Funk
  - Wizard Eye (+Weepy Eye)

With the following Turbo patches, ALL monster become available by the end of the game:
- Remove_Empire_Castle_Gate:  Dark Ninja, Emberman, Mystic Book
- Revisit_Sunken_Continent:  Fierce Head (+Grave Bat), Ghoul, Gremlin, Steelpion
- Revisit_Pure_Land:  Ghost, Griffin Hand, Ice Thug, Mushgloom

Note:  Some monsters were already available in vanilla through spawning:
- Heck Hound can spawn Howler and Beast Zombie.
- Mad Mallard can spawn Pumpkin Bomb.
- National Scar can spawn Imp.
- Shape Shifter can spawn Mimic Box, Eggplant Man (+Needlion), and other common monsters.

For the code, I'm just going to add what I modified in your default [Day_Night_Cycle] patch.  I don't know how to make this compatible with your default patch:

Code: [Select]
' nighttime alternates
@OFF $D01C16 '[00: Rabite]
RAW 0A ' Blat
'@OFF $D01C33 '[01: Buzz Bee]
@OFF $D01C50 '[02: Mushboom]
RAW 06 ' Kid Goblin
@OFF $D01C6D '[03: Chobin Hood]
RAW 1F ' Werewolf
'@OFF $D01C8A '[04: Lullabud]
'@OFF $D01CA7 '[05: Iffish]
'@OFF $D01CC4 '[06: Kid Goblin]
@OFF $D01CE1 '[07: Eye Spy] <-------------- Replace to this
RAW 21 ' Evil Sword <-------------- Replace to this
'@OFF $D01CFE '[08: Green Drop]
'@OFF $D01D1B '[09: Specter]
@OFF $D01D38 '[0A: Blat] <-------------- Replace to this
RAW 0D ' Polter Chair <-------------- Replace to this
'@OFF $D01D55 '[0B: Goblin]
@OFF $D01D72 '[0C: Water Thug] <------ Replace to this
RAW 0B ' Goblin <-------------- Replace to this
'@OFF $D01D8F '[0D: Polter Chair]
'@OFF $D01DAC '[0E: Ma Goblin]
'@OFF $D01DC9 '[0F: Dark Funk]
'@OFF $D01DE6 '[10: Crawler]
'@OFF $D01E03 '[11: Ice Thug]
'@OFF $D01E20 '[12: Zombie]
'@OFF $D01E3D '[13: Kimono Bird]
@OFF $D01E5A '[14: Silktail]
RAW 19 ' Chess Knight <-------------- Replace to this
@OFF $D01E77 '[15: Nemesis Owl] <------ Replace to this
RAW 22 ' Tomato Man <-------------- Replace to this
'@OFF $D01E94 '[16: Pebbler]
'@OFF $D01EB1 '[17: Pumpkin Bomb]
'RAW 27 ' Red Drop, too early
'@OFF $D01ECE '[18: Steamed Crab]
'@OFF $D01EEB '[19: Chess Knight]
'@OFF $D01F08 '[1A: Wizard Eye]
'@OFF $D01F25 '[1B: Howler]
'RAW 35 ' Beast Zombie, too strong
@OFF $D01F42 '[1C: Robin Foot]
RAW 23 ' Mystic Book
'@OFF $D01F5F '[1D: LA Funk]
'RAW 0F ' Dark Funk, too out of place
'@OFF $D01F7C '[1E: Grave Bat]
'@OFF $D01F99 '[1F: Werewolf]
'@OFF $D01FB6 '[20: Shadow X1]
'@OFF $D01FD3 '[21: Evil Sword]
'@OFF $D01FF0 '[22: Tomato Man]
'@OFF $D0200D '[23: Mystic Book]
'@OFF $D0202A '[24: Sand Stinger]
@OFF $D02047 '[25: Mad Mallard]
RAW 1C ' Robin Foot <-------------- Replace to this
'@OFF $D02064 '[26: Emberman]
'@OFF $D02081 '[27: Red Drop]
'@OFF $D0209E '[28: Eggatrice]
@OFF $D020BB '[29: Bomb Bee]
RAW 0F ' Dark Funk <-------------- Replace to this
@OFF $D020D8 '[2A: Mushgloom]
RAW 3B ' Griffin Hand
@OFF $D020F5 '[2B: Trap Flower] <------ Replace to this
RAW 1A ' Wizard Eye <-------------- Replace to this
'@OFF $D02112 '[2C: Dinofish]
'@OFF $D0212F '[2D: Mimic Box]
'@OFF $D0214C '[2E: Shadow X2]
'@OFF $D02169 '[2F: Kimono Wizard]
'@OFF $D02186 '[30: Ghost]
'@OFF $D021A3 '[31: Metal Crawler]
@OFF $D021C0 '[32: Spider Legs] <------ Replace to this
RAW 24 ' Sand Stinger <-------------- Replace to this
'@OFF $D021DD '[33: Weepy Eye]
@OFF $D021FA '[34: Shellblast]
RAW 09 ' Specter
'@OFF $D02217 '[35: Beast Zombie]
'@OFF $D02234 '[36: Ghoul]
'@OFF $D02251 '[37: Imp]
'@OFF $D0226E '[38: Blue Drop]
'@OFF $D0228B '[39: Marmablue]
'@OFF $D022A8 '[3A: Fierce Head]
@OFF $D022C5 '[3B: Griffin Hand]
RAW 2A ' Mushgloom
@OFF $D022E2 '[3C: Needlion]
RAW 45 ' Basilisk
'@OFF $D022FF '[3D: Metal Crab]
@OFF $D0231C '[3E: Armored Man] <------ Replace to this
RAW 27 ' Red Drop <-------------- Replace to this
'@OFF $D02339 '[3F: Shadow X3]
'@OFF $D02356 '[40: Eggplant Man]
'RAW 3D ' Metal Crab, has weapon orb
'@OFF $D02373 '[41: Captain Duck]
'@OFF $D02390 '[42: Nitro Pumpkin]
'@OFF $D023AD '[43: Turtlance]
'@OFF $D023CA '[44: Tsunami]
'@OFF $D023E7 '[45: Basilisk]
'@OFF $D02404 '[46: Gremlin]
'@OFF $D02421 '[47: Steelpion]
'@OFF $D0243E '[48: Dark Ninja]
'@OFF $D0245B '[49: Whimper]
'@OFF $D02478 '[4A: Heck Hound]
'@OFF $D02495 '[4B: Fiend Head]
'@OFF $D024B2 '[4C: National Scar]
'@OFF $D024CF '[4D: Dark Stalker]
'@OFF $D024EC '[4E: Dark Knight]
'@OFF $D02509 '[4F: Shape Shifter]
'@OFF $D02526 '[50: Wolf Lord]
'@OFF $D02543 '[51: Doom Sword]
'@OFF $D02560 '[52: Terminator]
'@OFF $D0257D '[53: Master Ninja]

If you can think of a better title, feel free to use that instead.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 10:10:07 am by hmsong »

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #731 on: October 18, 2019, 10:09:19 am »
I thought about kethinov's No Missable Monsters patch, and I think he's right that some people would indeed like having access to all the lost monsters by the end of the game.  So I made a mod, by using your [Day_Night_Cycle].  This can be a sub-patch under [Day_Night_Cycle]:

Bear in mind I'm going to be updating No Missable Monsters based on our previous discussion about it. One of the many things on my todo list.

kethinov I would probably nerf cure water a bit if it cures status as well as restores hp at the same time, while raising it's mp cost to 3 or 4 perhaps.

Both of the spell balance hacks do that (hmsong's and mine).

Also I suppose bosses like vampire do still cast energy absorb?

I think Eye Spy (and probably Wizard Eye) casts Remedy on his allies if they are inflicted with SE.  Now, with the new Primm's Energy Absorb, Eye Spy will kill their own allies when they're inflicted with SE (feels like kicking a guy when he's down, from their own allies, no less).  Or kill itself if they're demon/undead.

I had forgotten there were enemies that cast those spells. I did some brief checking when I made the hacks and didn't find anything. I'll need to make a complete list of them to fix what they cast. Anyone have those lists handy?

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #732 on: October 18, 2019, 10:42:42 am »
Bear in mind I'm going to be updating No Missable Monsters based on our previous discussion about it. One of the many things on my todo list.

Yes.  And I look forward to it.  Btw, this is something that I found while playing around with the patch, and I think you should add it to your No Missable Monster -- Sand Scorpion no longer becomes available after beating the Fire Palace.  Please add it to your future patch.

I think Queue has yet to include your No Missable Monster patch in Turbo package, because some of it becomes incompatible with Night Cycle or some other complications (and some of it becomes redundant since he made Pure Land and Sunken Continent accessible).  He did say he'll probably add all your patches at some point though (with your permission).

If you want me to take down my recent unextinct monster patch (since my patch basically does the same thing as yours), then I'll do so, since you're the one who came up with the idea in the first place.

Quote
I had forgotten there were enemies that cast those spells. I did some brief checking when I made the hacks and didn't find anything. I'll need to make a complete list of them to fix what they cast. Anyone have those lists handy?

There are lots of monsters with HP Absorb, but since they're all attack spells (same as Freeze Rain), I don't think you need to change anything.  Well, maybe for Vampire and Buffy (since they're "sucking" HP from the victims).

As for Remedy, I only know Eye Spy, but I suspect it's true for Wizard Eye too.  I do not know any other monsters with that spell.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 11:13:54 am by hmsong »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #733 on: October 18, 2019, 05:46:22 pm »
Version 2019-10-18:
https://ufile.io/rnh6l4m4

Changes:
- Implemented Bug_Fixes\Deathless_Foe_Fix; should solve the unkillable enemy issue
- Added compatibility fixups to Quality_of_Life\QuickSpell_Hotkeys for Dust_Flare and Hellfire
- Modified Dust_Flare to be compatible with Speed_Up_-_Detangle and to exchange spell descriptions

Technical Changes:
- Added global constants related to spell descriptions and modified some spell features to use them
- Adjusted spell data and extended spell name constants to allow for use with the COPY directive



So the unkillable enemy issue was a vanilla bug. If an enemy died from certain forms of direct damage (like poison) while they were "stunned" (status effects 0x0001 and 0x0002), the game set the "dead" status effect (0x8000) without actually running any of the code that plays their death animation (which is what despawns them), and because the "dead" status was set, other code that could otherwise set up the death animation assumes it's already taken care of.

No recent Turbo changes had any effect on the likelihood of this happening, just coincidence that teahouser noticed it occurring more after the previous update. Hopefully the fix doesn't have any side effects but it's pretty straightforward and extremely simple.

Yeesh was this surprisingly hard to track down. There are at least 3 different places where the game can decide an enemy is dead and set the "dead" status on them.



Didn't get to any other stuff posted since then.

hmsong, regarding the unmissable enemies, I was trying to keep the nighttime enemy changes fairly mild (except the haunted forest werewolves I guess), and to keep enemy locations where they made sense. Like I specifically didn't put any of the haunted object enemies (chairs, chess pieces, floating swords) out in forests because where would they all come from? I wasn't pleased with my own choice to put the Mystic Book in place of Robin Foots, but justified it to myself as they're just barely outside a palace front door. Also pretty sure flower > eye isn't a good fit because the eye would be pushable.

That said, I have no qualms with adding in your suggestions as a separate feature, just relaying my thought process. I really like the looks of a few of them and may instead incorporate them directly into Day_Night_Cycle (spider leg > sand stinger, water thug > goblin, mad mallard > robin foot, for example, as I feels those should fit well, maybe others, need more time to fully review your choices).

The Moon Saber issue is weird. Going to have to track down what's causing that.

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191016
« Reply #734 on: October 18, 2019, 06:58:43 pm »
Sand Scorpion no longer becomes available after beating the Fire Palace.  Please add it to your future patch.

Good find. Added to the to do list.

I think Queue has yet to include your No Missable Monster patch in Turbo package, because some of it becomes incompatible with Night Cycle or some other complications

I've been through a few runs with No Missable Monsters applied to a Turbo ROM and there are no compatibility issues. That said, Queue should probably wait to import it until I issue the next update, which I'm actively working on. Still working to address issues you raised before regarding Luka's pet Ice Thug, moving most of the Pure Land monsters out of the Mana Fortress, and other smaller issues. I have solutions for all these things, but it hasn't been high on my to do list to implement. I'll get to it though.

If you want me to take down my recent unextinct monster patch (since my patch basically does the same thing as yours), then I'll do so, since you're the one who came up with the idea in the first place.

No, that's not necessary. More hacks is a good thing. That said, I personally don't favor the approach. In my view, an ideal "No Missable Monsters" hack would not create a dependency on the Day/Night cycle hack, since the day/night cycle is not everyone's cup of tea (though personally I love it and I quite agree with Queue that anyone who disables morning and evening has terrible taste :P). Also like Queue said just now, I think the night monsters should focus on doing one thing well: bringing out scary things that only come out at night rather than trying to solve two problems at once. If it turns out doing that brings out some missable/rare monsters as a side effect, great, but we shouldn't try too hard to wedge them in if we can't find reasonable places for them all. That's what got me into trouble in the Mana Fortress in my first version, as you rightly pointed out at the time. ;)

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #735 on: October 18, 2019, 07:14:36 pm »
@Queue

I think you and kethinov are right.  There's no need to have a separate hack or anything, just for the whole "no missable monster" thing (kethinov's already doing that).  Indeed, lots of my "monster locations" don't make sense (mostly because they have to be outside).  So instead, feel free to use some of my ideas and incorporate them directly to the Day Night Cycle.  It would make more sense.

Quote
Also pretty sure flower > eye isn't a good fit because the eye would be pushable.

I'm pretty certain Wizard Eye isn't pushable.  Weepy Eye that it spawns is pushable though.

Also, I'm curious -- Why did you switch around Mushgloom and Griffin Hand?  They're both from the same location.  Was it to simply mix up the locations to give the night Pure Land a new feeling without incorporating new monsters? (other than Basilisk)

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #736 on: October 18, 2019, 07:50:50 pm »
I think what Queue means is the technical method he uses to replace monsters at night would result in the Eye being pushable because the monster it is replacing is pushable.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #737 on: October 18, 2019, 10:41:58 pm »
I think what Queue means is the technical method he uses to replace monsters at night would result in the Eye being pushable because the monster it is replacing is pushable.

Wuw!  I did not know that.  So there is another code somewhere that makes certain enemies in certain position locked in place?  That's interesting.  Does that mean that locked-in-place monsters cannot move either?

I thought Spider Legs were locked in place, so Sand Scorpions that replace them would be locked in place too, but they seem to move just fine (and I can push them around too).  Hmm.  What are the unpushable monsters, other than Eye Spy and Wizard Eye?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 10:48:02 pm by hmsong »

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #738 on: October 18, 2019, 11:03:50 pm »
Updated "Energy Absorb for the Girl"

A side effect of this hack is that since the Remedy spell no longer exists in the game, enemies which cast it will now cast Cure Water instead to prevent them from Energy Absorbing themselves. This affects Eye Spy, Wizard Eye, Tomato Man, and Eggplant Man.

Download for use on a vanilla ROM: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4741/

Download for use on a Turbo ROM with spell extensions enabled: http://kethinov.com/images/linked/som/energyabsorb/SecretofManaEnergyAbsorbfortheGirl1.1Turbo.zip

Updated "Freezing Rain"

A side effect of this hack is that since the Energy Absorb spell has been overwritten, some enemies which cast it will now cast a range of other spells instead to keep them from being made into easier fights since Freezing Rain does less damage than Energy Absorb did.

Complete list of enemies that will no longer cast Energy Absorb:

- Silktail will now cast Freezing Rain.
- Specter will now cast MP Absorb.
- Mystic Book will now cast MP Absorb.
- Trap Flower will now cast Sleep Flower more often than before.
- Kimono Wizard will now cast Acid Storm.
- Ghost will now cast MP Absorb.
- Tsunami will now cast Freezing Rain.
- Bosses that cast Energy Absorb will now cast MP Absorb (e.g. the Vampire family of bosses).

Download for use on a vanilla ROM: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4742/

Download for use on a Turbo ROM with spell extensions enabled: http://kethinov.com/images/linked/som/freezingrain/SecretofManaFreezingRain1.1Turbo.zip

Wuw!  I did not know that.  So there is another code somewhere that makes certain enemies in certain position locked in place?  That's interesting.  Does that mean that locked-in-place monsters cannot move either?

I thought Spider Legs were locked in place, so Sand Scorpions that replace them would be locked in place too, but they seem to move just fine (and I can push them around too).  Hmm.  What are the unpushable monsters, other than Eye Spy and Wizard Eye?

Pretty sure the way it works is when nightfall comes, a replaced enemy e.g. Silktail is still a Silktail to some degree in the game's memory. I believe what Queue's code does is say if it's nightfall, replace this Silktail spawn with a Grave Bat. But much of the other memory associated with the Silktail remains in place, including the setting in the monster spawn table that declares whether the monster can be pushed. Thus, Queue can only replace pushable monsters with other pushable monsters and non-pushable monsters with other non-pushable monsters. Otherwise it will be buggy. Also, the pushable flag is separate from whether or not a monster can move, which is defined by the AI script.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 03:17:35 am by kethinov »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #739 on: October 18, 2019, 11:18:00 pm »
@kethinov

Quote
Pretty sure the way it works is when nightfall comes, a replaced enemy e.g. Silktail is still a Silktail to some degree in the game's memory. I believe what Queue's code does is say if it's nightfall, replace this Silktail spawn with a Grave Bat. But much of the other memory associated with the Silktail remains in place, including the setting in the monster spawn table that declares whether the monster can be pushed. Thus, Queue can only replace pushable monsters with other pushable monsters and non-pushable monsters with other non-pushable monsters. Otherwise it will be buggy. Also, the pushable flag is separate from whether or not a monster can move, which is defined by the AI script.

"Buggy"?  While it would be weird for non-pushable monsters to be pushable, but it wouldn't be a bug of any kind, right?  Or does that glitch up something somewhere?  And didn't you put Wizard Eye in Mana Fortress in Missable Monsters patch?  Did you make it unmovable?

Also, what are the normal unmovable monsters, other than Eye Spy and Wizard Eye?