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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191205  (Read 129131 times)

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #520 on: September 28, 2019, 05:42:43 am »
A thing I noticed since quite some time, when I don't have my weapons and I go at one of the options in the menu but press Y and exit it pops me back to the ring menu and I have to press Y again to exit it for good. Or when I have weapons on and you do that, you attack with your weapon. Surprised no one mentioned it or maybe I missed it.

Butchered explanation, you're welcome.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #521 on: September 28, 2019, 06:16:58 am »
@Queue

Wow.  I like what you did with my suggestion/codes.  I especially liked what you did with my Spell Balance Overhaul (all those IFs and IF_NOTs).  Of course, I may still change the contents in the future, but so far, I am absolutely satisfied with what you did.  You even improved my initial codes.  Thank you.

Indeed, it may have been wise not to apply my suggested Spell Recoil, yet.  There's been a lot of changes in the spells, and maybe more may come.  I see that you're tired of working on spell modification, so I'll do some of the work, and I hope you can help me to correct some parts of it.  I'm currently working on Fire Bouquet <--> Speed Up.  I'll post the code that I have so far later (I switched the spell animation and effects, but I couldn't change the spell colors nor target's colors).

Question:
Quote
Possibly fixed Lunar_Magic_-_Celestial_Cascade Mimic Box transformation not hiding target's weapon

What?  Mimic Box has weapons?  I heard that monsters have their own "weapons" that are not graphically shown.  Is that what you were talking about?



September 28, 2019, 06:33:04 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Okay, here's what I have so far (pwr, cost, effect, etc are easy enough, so I won't list them):

Code: [Select]
' {04: Grave Flare (Fire Bouquet modified) -- originally Speed Up spot}
@OFF $D02BA0 E0 85 53 05 53 05 53 05
@OFF $D02BA8 89 00 BE 6A 00 00 2D 8F
@OFF $D02BB0 89 00 BE 6A 00 00 2D 8F
@OFF $D02BB8 89 00 D4 6A 00 00 2D 8F
@OFF $D02BC0 89 00 D4 6A 00 00 2D 8F
@OFF $D02BC8 89 0E D4 6A 00 00 55 8F
@OFF $D02BD0 89 0E D4 6A 00 00 55 8F

' {10: Speed Up -- originally Fire Bouquet spot}
@OFF $D02EA0 32 86 D5 0B D5 0B D5 0B
@OFF $D02EA8 C9 00 06 68 00 00 02 8B
@OFF $D02EB0 C9 00 06 68 00 00 02 8B
@OFF $D02EB8 C9 00 06 68 00 00 02 8B
@OFF $D02EC0 C9 00 06 68 00 00 02 8B
@OFF $D02EC8 C9 00 1E 68 00 00 13 8B
@OFF $D02ED0 C9 00 1E 68 00 00 13 8B

@OFF $D8FD86
RAW A0 A7
@OFF $D8FD9E
RAW 08 A1

I succeeded in changing the spell animation and menu icon to what I wanted, but not the colors (spell animation, victim color, and menu icon) nor the names of these spells.  I tried to see other spells to see some sort of common grounds, but I just don't see it.  Specifically, I don't know which address affects which, and I also don't know the values for different colors for different addresses.

I'm eventually going to make different effects, depending on if Mud Saber and/or Mire is abled or disabled (using IF and IF_NOts).  But that's for later.

Also, are you planning on making your Inferno Barrier into Fire Wall + Inferno Barrier? (Fire Wall when enemy's on screen, and Inferno Barrier when enemy's not on screen)  Or would you keep the Inferno Barrier the way it is?  I want Salamander to have at least one attack spell...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 07:36:42 am by hmsong »

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #522 on: September 28, 2019, 06:38:08 am »
Quote
Mr. X:  Surprised no one mentioned it or maybe I missed it.  Butchered explanation, you're welcome.

I believe that's a side-effect of someone asking for this:  [Run_After_Area_Change}.  That Quality_Of_Life patch seems to force an extra button press in order to maintain running after transitioning, but it also forces one in other scenarios.  I've seen it myself, but didn't consider it a huge issue, since I can just turn the option off.   :huh:

Maybe you could test my suspicion by deselecting the Option on another patched ROM?  Hope that helps, slightly...  :)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 08:03:19 am by zoolgremlin »
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Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #523 on: September 28, 2019, 07:20:30 am »
I believe that's a side-effect of someone asking for this:  [Run_After_Area_Change}.  That Quality_Of_Life patch seems to force an extra button press in order to maintain running after transitioning, but it also forces one in other scenarios.  I've seen it myself, but didn't consider it a huge issue, since I can just turn the option off.   :huh:

Maybe you could test my suspicion by deselecting the Option on another patched ROM?  Hope that helps...  :)

Ok thanks, I will test it later :)

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #524 on: September 28, 2019, 07:51:46 am »
UPDATE:  New Version of Monster Treasure Drops Data Table now available.  Link to Folder:  Secret of Mana Information (Vanilla)

@hmsong  Okay!  That took a bit, however it would've taken a hell of a lot longer, if I hadn't thought to download SOMDropEdit myself and look at it.  That was necessary to understand more of your points made in previous Posts.  Soooo... I wasn't quite 'there' yet, in understanding, after all.  But that was no fault of yours.   :)

The download's .7z archive did not, unbelievably, contain an EXEcutable file to run the program, as shown on its ROMhacking page.  That didn't help (>:(), but this did:

     -     dropNotes.txt, in the archive's /res/data Folder.

This was just the document I needed to correct my own Google Drive one, which was very wrong about the exact use of byte 0x02.  Pity about that, if it had worked the way I thought, I would've called that pretty clever mathematics on Square's part.  (I should've known better.   >:()

EDIT:  Many thanks to deflaktor for the documentation I now have sitting on the pile, it helped a lot.  (Not sure whose fault it is that the .7z archive for SOMDropEdit had no .exe file, but no matter, I didn't need it.)

The updated information is now there, and the document's Version Date/Time has been moved up to today, just a few minutes ago.  As of now, I believe this to accord with everything that "dropNotes.txt", your prior Posts and my own observations/readings have shown me, and is therefore 100% correct.  U-unfortunately, being correct does not mean that it is all good news.   :(

If you were intending to alter Monster Drop Table values to make Rare Drops more likely than 11% (precise value is 10.9375%), I regret to inform you this is not possible just by altering the Drop Table.  You would have to alter something completely different as well, which I would have to look for and analyze, in a completely different Bank of the Vanilla ROM.

I will probably not get to that anytime soon, but it's on the cards to, at a minimum, detail the Vanilla algorithm that determines Common vs. Rare drops, in the Monster Drop Table document.  Regardless of whether I intend to change it or not.  Apologies for the confusion caused, I did not fully understand what you meant by the 11% thing, but I do now.  Hope that helps, happy hacking! (Weeeell, sorta.)   :D
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 07:37:54 am by zoolgremlin »
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hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #525 on: September 28, 2019, 08:07:32 am »
@zoolgremlin

Aww, damn.  I read your new document.  Now, I see how that works.  Sigh.  I so wanted to raise the rare drop frequency.  Too bad.

Still, thanks anyway.

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #526 on: September 28, 2019, 09:18:49 am »
@hmsong  Ah, I almost forgot.  The alternative brute-force solution, is to take a leaf out of Timbo's book, and alter bytes 0x03 & 0x04 to contain the same Drop, eliminating the random "Rare Drop" factor by making it completely invisible.  That would allow a more simplified list of possible Drops in the game, which would at least work in the short-term...  :laugh:
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 10:08:02 am by zoolgremlin »
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kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #527 on: September 29, 2019, 12:17:59 am »
So has anyone considered a "Mana Saber" or "Tree Saber" for Dryad that inflicts sleep status? Seems like it would be a good addition to compliment Queue's work creating Shadow Saber. My thinking is it could replace Primm's version of Mana Magic and be unlocked by default, so Primm would have 3 Dryad spells and Popoi would have 2 until the Mana Beast fight. Perhaps we could even still require both characters to cast onto Randi during the final battle—Mana Saber from Primm and Mana Magic from Popoi. What does everyone think of this?

Okay, with that out of the way...

Was getting Firenado imported into Turbo and came across some issues (or whatever some of these count as):

Thanks for the analysis and refactoring. Most of your edits make sense to me, except...

- Firenado copies the entirety of Evil Gate's spell function; there are a few options to change the weakness check logic to make Evil Gate's spell function use the spell data's element for the test so that all Evil Gate variations use the same spell function:

I don't think reusing the Evil Gate spell definition is the right way to go.

It works fine if you replace Evil Gate with Shadow Saber, because the Evil Gate spell definition is effectively dummied out by Shadow Saber, so we can do what we like with it no problem.

But if you leave the original Evil Gate spell in place when applying Firenado (decline to use Shadow Saber), then this change has the side effect of making the original Evil Gate spell work on bosses not immune to Shade.

I don't really see a way to avoid copying the spell definition in that scenario so that we can have two Evil Gate spell definitions. One that works on bosses (Firenado, at higher cost) and one that doesn't (the original Evil Gate).

Also, I recommend disabling "More Useful Evil Gate" by default in the Turbo patcher now that we've replaced it with something better.

And while we're discussing defaults, why not enable "SFX Channel Limit" by default? Are there drawbacks to it to justify it being off by default?

Also, I changed things for Shape Shifter possibilities:
Code: [Select]
' Mimic Box --> (same)
' @OFF $D09CF3
' RAW 2D

' Rabite --> Mushgloom
@OFF $D09CFB
RAW 2A

' Eggplant Man --> Needlion
@OFF $D09D03
RAW 3C

' Captain Duck --> (same)
' @OFF $D09D0B
' RAW 41

' Beast Zombie --> Gremlin
@OFF $D09D10
RAW 46

I just didn't want players to have early access to Imp's Ring, so I got rid of Eggplant Man (Needlion's Needle Helm is alright, since you have access to Basilisk and National Scar, who have better helmet anyways).  And more importantly, all these guys are sort of signature/recurring monsters of Mana series (again, different types, different elements).  I didn't include Silktail, because Silktail is too weak at this point of game.

I recommend revising this list to:

1. Mimic Box (unchanged)
2. Mushgloom (replaces Rabite)
3. Eggplant Man (unchanged)
4. Ghoul (replaces Captain Duck)
5. Gremlin (replaces Beast Zombie)

This is basically the same as your list except restores Eggplant Man and drops Captain Duck for Ghoul.

Regarding Eggplant Man, I get your complaint about the Imp's Ring, but I don't think modifying Shape Shifter is the way to deal with the game's horrible unbalanced drop table. See my "Drop Table Balance" or "Equipment Progression Balance" hacks for comprehensive balance there. (They are mutually exclusive; applying two different philosophies of balance, but are both better than vanilla.)

Even if you're not interested in a comprehensive balance overhaul though, I don't see much harm in Eggplant Man having a chance to drop a vanilla Imp's Ring given how dangerous he is to fight, especially when first visiting Joch's cave. Seems kinda a like a worthy prize for putting up with him if a Shape Shifter spawns one.

Also IIRC if you drop Eggplant Man from Shape Shifter, he would become a missable monster.

Regarding Ghoul, he is missable, while Captain Duck is not, thus the replacement.

I like your addition of Mushgloom and Gremlin to the list because it's another way to make a missable monster not missable.

I also really liked one of the suggestions you PMd me to rename Firenado. I originally chose that name because it felt adequately milquetoast to match the original game's safe, bland names for things.

But your suggestion to rename it to "Hellfire" really grabbed me because—as you said—it would be a fitting homage to the original spell, Evil Gate.

I'm thinking a few versions of the hack are called for:

1. One that renames it to "Hellfire."
2. Another that renames it to "Heckfire" because, you know, "Heck Hounds" are a thing and the overzealous censorship in this game is hysterical.
3. Another that preserves the original name "Firenado" for those who enjoy the censorship but simply can't stomach the absolute silliness of "Heckfire."

In my next version of the hack, I'll offer all three of those options, with "Hellfire" being the default (with that variant renaming "Heck Hound" to "Hell Hound" in the process, because hey, why not).

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #528 on: September 29, 2019, 01:40:04 am »
Hellfire sounds pretty dope tbh I agree. I would definitely change it to that.

As for Tree saber I don't see it necessary. I see the Mana magic as Dryads version of saber magic, but to activate the swords full power.

Also, am I the only one that wants to get rid of Moon Energy/herbal boost?

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #529 on: September 29, 2019, 05:54:01 am »
@kethinov

Quote
I recommend revising this list to:

1. Mimic Box (unchanged)
2. Mushgloom (replaces Rabite)
3. Eggplant Man (unchanged)
4. Ghoul (replaces Captain Duck)
5. Gremlin (replaces Beast Zombie)

I get why you would want Eggplant Man.  You make some fair and valid points.  In addition to your "it dropping Watcher's Ring is too rare, and equipment balance is already pretty screwed up", it is just as iconic as Molebear species and it releases Needlion, which is basically stronger Molebear.  I will have to rethink this, but I'm trying to fulfill certain conditions:
  1. Different type + different element (Eggplant Man and Captain Duck have the same type and element)
  2. At least Cave of Courage level monster -- I want Shape Shifter's monsters to be a threat.
  3. Recurring monster in various other Mana games (at least in SD3 and/or Sword of Mana).

I kinda like Captain Duck, not just because it is iconic, but also because it is going use Firenado (Hellfire) with impunity, which is a real threat even at the end of the game (Thank you for that).  Yes, missable monsters is a big deal.  But you mitigated the whole missable monsters with your patch.  It's a good patch, which I'm sure people have used if missing out monsters was a big deal to them (I used them too for the cool unique equipments, before I discovered that Turbo patch opened up Pure Land and Sunk Continent).  And since your patch covers the whole missable monster thing, I just don't see the point in including missable monsters for Shape Shifter.  Besides, Shape Shifter can only cover for 4 monsters (one must be Mimic Box), which is nowhere near enough -- I want either All or None.

As for your Tree Saber being available early... I hesitate, because Dryad specifically said that his Mana Magic was sealed, and I don't want Primm to have 3 spells while Popoi only has 2 spells.  Besides, the two casters empowering Randi through mutual spells seems really cool.  And I mean, REALLY cool (impractical, but cool).

Thank you for applying (in the future) my idea about Hellfire.  I really like seeing my ideas come to life.  Esp when awesome programmers like you and Queue apply them.  It really makes me feel like I'm a part of the team (however little that may be).

As for my other idea... about Speed Up <--> Fire Bouquet... indeed, there may be problems with Turbo patches, since he is getting rid of Fire Wall, which is the other fire offense spell for Primm.  That's why I suggested the idea to him about Fire Wall when enemy is around, and Inferno Barrier when they're not.

I don't think Speed Up switching places with Fire Bouquet (Grave Flare) will be bad for the enemies (I stated numerous reasons above).  In addition, I think many people who don't know the existence of Turbo patch would love those spells switching -- In addition to giving Primm an attack spell early in the game, her having two fire attack spells is just too boring (which is why I suggested you to make a separate patch for Romhacking, assuming Grave Flare is a [damage + Atk down] spell).

I think Heck Hound is already named Hellhound in Relocalization, but you already knew that.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 09:07:28 am by hmsong »

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #530 on: September 29, 2019, 06:18:57 am »
@kethinov  About the Leaf/Tree/Mana/dunno Saber idea, I'm really of two minds about it.  Without giving 3 extra slots to Shade and Lumina, which as Queue informed me is as far away from simple as it's possible to get, and/or increasing the number of spells per Elemental to 4, which is also not simple, there is basically no way to add Leaf Saber without losing something else.  I personally consider keeping Mana Magic active (with the power of "friendship"), part of both the story and the challenge, when fighting the Mana Beast.  On the other hand, Timbo's World of Balance project is going to replace the Sprite's Mana Magic version, with a special attack spell that bypasses Wall.  That sounds interesting... so what else could we all stand to lose?  Good question!   :-\

Following on from the idea of multi-swapping spells around, I'd be thinking about giving Wall to some other Elemental, and putting Leaf Saber in its place.  In that hypothetical case, I daresay recolouring Wall might have to happen.  Where would Wall go?  <shrug>

What about the spell to lose altogether, if it comes to that?  Moon Energy/Herbal Boost (why, though)?  One of the Fire spells (five fire-damage spells never made sense, really)?  That rather depends on who you ask, as we don't all play or envision this game the same way.

I wasn't going to go into any detail about what I would do regarding spells just yet.  Not because of the earlier concern that Queue wouldn't like that (turns out, he's all in favor of any talk about SoM in here), but a new concern.  If it were up to me alone to swap/add spells, it basically wouldn't happen, as I have zero talent in graphic art.  Whether it be for the SNES or some other system.  Best I can do is imagine other possible spells to fill in extra slots, and/or think about rearranging stuff like Energy Absorb.  The latter would be aiming to make what's already there, more sensible than Vanilla's way of doing things.  (No, I wasn't thinking about giving Energy Absorb to Salamando, of all Spirits... not sure how hmsong got confused about that.   :huh:)

I also still don't know how the game points to spell animations, so swapping them around is not something I can do yet.  I'd be looking for that, but I'm still recovering from the other day.  Another 24 hours max should see me back up to full energy.  <whew>

Naturally, the addition of Leaf Saber would be just one more option amongst a multitude, though.  So if you had to lose another spell to have it on, at least the other spell wouldn't be gone forever.  You could just patch another ROM differently, and have a slightly different spell repertoire for another playthrough.   :)

Not sure if any of that helps.  Replacing/adding content is way more complicated than tweaking stuff that's already there.  Soooo... <shrug>

EDIT:  Renaming Heck Hound to Hellhound, and Firenado to Hellfire really floats my boat, however.   :laugh:
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 10:02:17 am by zoolgremlin »
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Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #531 on: September 29, 2019, 09:23:22 am »
Changing Moon Energy to a different spell helps the game balance. It falls in line to maximizing your damage also. For example in the final battle mana magic+herbal boost allows you to deal 999 damage per hit.

Without that you would cast spells that would maximize tour damage. Lunar boost (which raises atk), def down spell. It falls in line of making spells more useful which from what I can tell we all want that.

This is all just for the far future tho, as of now I wouldn't even bother that much about balance, until Queue has more or less finished what he was after.


I checked Timbo's world of balance thread the other day and I liked how he adressed that issue. Turn Moon energy into a stat reducing spell for enemies (def) while giving poison to Acid Storm seemed like a solid idea for example.

But anyway.

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #532 on: September 29, 2019, 10:48:00 am »
Just to be clear, the Mana Saber concept would not replace Mana Magic. It would be an enhancement on top of it's existing behavior.

Existing behavior:

1. Popoi has two spells on Dryad.
2. Primm has two spells on Dryad.
3. During the Mana Beast fight, each get a basically identical Mana Magic spell unlocked.
4. Both need to be cast on Randi for him to do damage.

What I'm suggesting:

1. Popoi has two spells on Dryad.
2. Primm has three spells on Dryad, including the new Mana Saber.
3. During the Mana Beast fight, Popoi gets Mana Magic unlocked.
4. Both Mana Saber and Mana Magic need to be cast on Randi for him to do damage.

This would change absolutely nothing about the story dialog or the friendship concept.

That said, I am a fan of Timbo's "Mana Burn" concept as well, which would replace Popoi's Mana Magic with a Dryad damage spell. If my idea of a Mana Saber were implemented and Timbo's idea of a "Mana Burn" were also implemented, I think if the two ideas were combined, we would have to drop the friendship idea so the Mana Beast could take damage from Mana Burn or anyone with Mana Saber cast on them, but only in that specific scenario when those two hypothetical patches are combined.

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #533 on: September 29, 2019, 11:52:22 am »
Just to be clear, the Mana Saber concept would not replace Mana Magic. It would be an enhancement on top of it's existing behavior.

Existing behavior:

1. Popoi has two spells on Dryad.
2. Primm has two spells on Dryad.
3. During the Mana Beast fight, each get a basically identical Mana Magic spell unlocked.
4. Both need to be cast on Randi for him to do damage.

What I'm suggesting:

1. Popoi has two spells on Dryad.
2. Primm has three spells on Dryad, including the new Mana Saber.
3. During the Mana Beast fight, Popoi gets Mana Magic unlocked.
4. Both Mana Saber and Mana Magic need to be cast on Randi for him to do damage.

This would change absolutely nothing about the story dialog or the friendship concept.

That said, I am a fan of Timbo's "Mana Burn" concept as well, which would replace Popoi's Mana Magic with a Dryad damage spell. If my idea of a Mana Saber were implemented and Timbo's idea of a "Mana Burn" were also implemented, I think if the two ideas were combined, we would have to drop the friendship idea so the Mana Beast could take damage from Mana Burn or anyone with Mana Saber cast on them, but only in that specific scenario when those two hypothetical patches are combined.

Ah I see. I dig that.
In that case what about making the Mana Saber and Mana Burn unlockable at half power after visiting the mana tree, while they get upgraded to full power after you beat the Dark Lich?

It gives those hidden spells more purpose prior to the Mana Beast fight vs Vampire Lord, Dread Slime and Dark Lich, instead of just one battle. I wont mind either way, just proposing an idea.



hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #534 on: September 29, 2019, 07:10:02 pm »
@kethinov

Hmm.  Your idea is cool, but I can't help but think it may be complicated to program.  In addition to Tree Saber (one that sleeps) needs to do both Sleep SE and Mana magic 1, the target needs to change in the middle of a game (vanilla has Mana Magic 1 target Randi only).  What's more, Tree Saber (if it's like any other sabers) lasts # of hits, whereas Mana Magic lasts # of seconds.

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #535 on: September 29, 2019, 09:43:08 pm »
Quote
kethinov:  Just to be clear, the Mana Saber concept would not replace Mana Magic. It would be an enhancement on top of it's existing behavior.

Whoops.  Should've read your original Post a bit more carefully, somehow that part slipped right on through.   On the plus side, though, my fatigue is gone, and my mouth-pain has greatly diminished.  :-[

Okay!  I'll put my hand up and vote for Leaf/Mana Saber.   (If there is a vote... sounds like a pretty long-term thing to plan.  :D)

I suspect that a branching condition, to make Primm's proposed spell work both in and out of the final battle as described, would be necessary.  That would at least mean moving Mana Magic (Primm)'s spell function somewhere else to fit in the new code, probably.  Can't think offhand, what else would be required to make it all work.

As for the "Mana Burn" idea from Timbo, an interesting thought just occurred to me.  Perhaps if Burst were changed to be a spell that can bypass Wall, an extra damage-spell that can do so against the Mana Beast would not be necessary.  That would help the monsters too, potentially, because some of them can also cast Burst.  So there would at least be one spell that a player can't protect him/herself against, using Wall.  Making it also more useful than Lucent Beam, if Mana Beast were given it.  (Most of these ideas aren't trivial to make, but they're nice to think about, I suppose...  :laugh:)

Any thoughts about that, everyone?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 09:15:19 am by zoolgremlin »
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kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #536 on: September 29, 2019, 11:29:29 pm »
Been playtesting a build. Found some bugs:

1. Functional Fashion doesn't work when stamina is regenerating.

2. Functional Fashion doesn't work when poisoned.

3. With No Default Equipment off and Functional Fashion on, the Functional Fashion color on Randi doesn't apply immediately in the intro cutscene (ditto for Primm's intro cutscene).

4. There is a strange new bug related to pausing to the menu rings: Pause to menu rings, go to levels, then unpause. As you unpause, your character will swing their weapon, apparently a hangover effect from when the attack button was pressed to open levels.

5. I observed a very difficult to reproduce bug with how gather party members and/or the new running hacks combine: In Elinee's castle, I did a continuous run downstairs to the jail to talk to the guard who opens the bridge. One of my characters got stuck up the stairs and didn't teleport to me in time before I talked to the guard. Talking to the guard is supposed to gather party members, but with one of my allies offscreen, my game softlocked (party never gathered, dialog never started). I have a savestate where I'm stuck in this state I can share, but reproducing it reliably is tough.

6. Related to #5, when you run up and down stairs, your allies tend to get left behind.

7. In addition to my comments above about Firenado, it appears the Firenado code isn't taking the Salamando element into effect. Enemies strong against Shade appear to be immune to Firenado. However, all this would be moot if we ultimately agree to restore my approach of creating a fully forked spell definition instead of trying to share Evil Gate's.

8. Later Midge Mallet is broken in Turbo. This is my fault. The 1.1 version of the patch used the wrong code. I fixed it: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4382/

Also I published a new hack called "Upbeat Elinee's Castle" https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4693/

This hack changes the music in Elinee's Castle to "Did You See The Ocean" throughout the entire castle.

In the original game "Did You See The Ocean" is played at the very end of the castle only for a single room. With this hack the track is played throughout the entirety of the castle to spice things up a bit since the original song played throughout most of the castle "Into The Thick of It" is a bit overused and the "Did You See The Ocean" variant of the song is a bit underused.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 02:10:58 am by kethinov »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #537 on: September 30, 2019, 04:46:28 am »
@kethinov

#5 happens sometimes in the whip tiles too.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:06:25 am by hmsong »

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #538 on: September 30, 2019, 06:26:10 am »
Yeah it's weird seeing enemies imune to shade be immune to firenado also. Enemies immune to salamando should be immune to it.

Is it possible to make undead enemies immune to Firenado but not weak to Undine?

So we would have:

- Undead being immune to Firenado but not weak to Undine

- Salamando immune enemies that are weak to undine being immune to firenado.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190927
« Reply #539 on: September 30, 2019, 07:06:37 am »
@kethinov

I tried the new Later Midge Mallet patch.  It seems I can't get the Midge Mallet at all now (at least, not right after getting the Wind Drum).  I even dripped off King Matango, and checked again, but nope.  Can you check?



@Queue

Your Firenado seems to do the regular Evil Gate (works on all except bosses), rather than kethinov's intended effect (works on all except Salamando enemies).

Also, the new spells (Shadow Saber, Mud Saber, Inferno Barrier) are all in CAPS, even in Relocalized.  Was that intended?

Also, could you change my [Mimic_Box_Dragon_Type] to [Enemy_Type/Element_Change]?  I may add more changes to the monsters (probably gonna add more Fire element monsters, since there's so few Fire monsters in the game).  And for my [Alternate_Transform_List] and [Alternate_Shape_Shifter_List], could you put in the description, "Intended to be used with [Enemy_Type/Element_Change]"?

Thank you.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 10:00:59 am by hmsong »