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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191118  (Read 101737 times)

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #440 on: September 22, 2019, 07:11:25 pm »
Quote
@Queue  "I assume you're mistaking ZPS's virtual files for something more complex than they are, like classes and objects, etc."

Yes, I think I must be.  I only thought to ask the question, since I was having a little more trouble putting new assembly code into the ZPS, than I was expecting.  I thought I understood your previous explanation, but that is clearly... not correct.  If you say it's simpler than object language, I'm thinking you would know better than I.

Also, I thought that I had written the correct names for the Virtual Folder/s and File/s.  But no, that is not true either.  If it was, I wouldn't have gotten an error message.  Nor perhaps would I have gotten it, if the contents of the File were incorrect (eg. wrong syntax for 65 assembly).  I'll try again and see...  ::)

Thanks very much for your answer.  As soon as I can add new files to the ZPS and have them consistently work, I'll come back to tell everyone.  If we don't see you again today/tonight, hope you have a good one.   :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 12:14:54 pm by zoolgremlin »
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hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #441 on: September 22, 2019, 07:11:53 pm »
@zoolgremlin

You're very welcome.  I'm glad I can contribute.  Also, wow.  All those codes just to tweak the target color of spell?  Yikes.  Switching the spells around is going to take forever, esp with my limited knowledge. 

Thanks for another great update on your documents.  My mind is reaching its limits, but I shall continue to try.


@Queue

Oh, I see about the snowman.  Well, I was merely mentioning some options.  I still like your snowman enemy (esp since it has a unique weakness).

I may have come off wrong in terms of suggestion about Fear status.  My apologies.  Mire status is great.  And I would absolutely love it if you can somehow make Moogle status work on the enemy (even if not graphic, but in terms of effects).  I still would like it if Mire made the effected enemies brown (or something), and "moogled" monsters white (or something).  Thanks, and once again, my apologies.

Oohh.  Burst does 12.5%?  Great.  That sounds fantastic, actually (800 * 1/8 = 100).  I would love to try that out.  Really looking forward to it.  I've been wanting to try that for a while, but kinda gave up hope when you said it'd be complicated.  If you can figure out how to make a spell ignore M.Def, or maybe even Wall (similar to how Dispel ignores Wall), that would be even better (it is a self-explosion ability).  That would make that spell more useful too (I know many people would hate the idea of getting damaged... but I just want it so much).  You are truly great.

About the drop table, maybe you're right.  I noticed that vanilla used some of those things.  I just have no idea what they do.

Also, if I make a code that doubles the chances of chest drop rate (04 --> 08, which is the same drop rate of Rabite), would you be willing to upload that for your package?  I shouldn't have any problem with that.

Speaking of treasure chest, you think it's possible for you to make Lunar Magic make the monster drop Treasure Chest into 100%? (temporarily, of course)  Or, at least increase the likelihood of treasure drop rate of that particular victim?  Seems like a neat idea to make Lunar Magic into something unique... and VERY desirable.  You can make it drop only the non-running chest (or only running chest).
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 08:14:47 pm by hmsong »

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #442 on: September 22, 2019, 07:40:27 pm »
@hmsong  I guess it would seem like a large amount of data, just to change a color.  But yeah, video games closer to the current year can be (EDIT) 10's of Gigabytes in size.  The SoM Vanilla ROM is 2 MegaBytes, 100's of times less.  EDIT:  Whoops, I don't see any instance of a video game being 100's or 1000's of GigaBytes in size.  Didn't think that through, did I?  Fixed...  :crazy:

With higher resolution textures and backgrounds, more code to calculate collision-detection and create the illusion of depth and perspective in 3D-modelled worlds, between 3D-modelled objects, etc., that's what most of those gigabytes are being used for.  At least, in the last few years.

Everything else like sound, and tables for stats (Strength, Intelligence, etc.), and calculating AttackPower when using a big stick... all added up together it's not as much as that.  Not to my knowledge... (True HD is 1920x1080 pixels on your screen, meaning it takes 2,073,600 little "dots" to draw an image on a True HD monitor or digital TV.  The 3rd Dimension multiplies the data needed to define virtual space, and calculate relative positions, in a similiar fashion.  Or the same one?  Hmmmm...   :-\)

(EDIT:  See Queue's response to this, for a more substantial rundown.  He's more knowledgable about programming and data storage, than I am.  I'll... readily admit that.   :laugh:

But the pointer value that directs the SNES hardware/emulator to that address would be, according to the others I've seen, 2 Bytes.  The difference in proportion is, err... quite significant <whew>.

Don't worry if it's taking time to absorb all of this, I see it as a hobby with a bit of volunteer work thrown in.  Take it at your own pace, it's all good...

Cheers!   :beer:
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 05:38:03 am by zoolgremlin »
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kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #443 on: September 23, 2019, 01:16:42 am »
Btw, I editted my Change Form possible monsters.  All different type (except one), and all different elements.  And all pre-Empire.  And changed some types.  And increased Mimic drop to 100%.

Here is another list worth considering. Everything on the list (except the Rabite) spawns other monsters, some of them rare/missable:

1. Rabite (gotta keep the Rabite on the list! It matches the spell picture!  ;))
2. Goblin (spawns Ma Goblins; these stop spawning by the end of the game without my "No Missable Monsters" hack)
3. Green Drop (spawns Green Drops)
4. Blue Drop (spawns Blue Drops)
5. Red Drop (spawns Red Drops; these stop spawning by the end of the game without my "No Missable Monsters" hack)
6. Emberman (spawns Emberman; these stop spawning by the end of the game without my "No Missable Monsters" hack)
7. Basilisk (spawns Eggatrice; you can find exactly one Basilisk in the Mana Fortress, so they're not missable, but pretty rare so having another way to spawn them could be fun)
8. Mad Mallard (spawns Pumpkin Bombs; Pumpkin Bombs already exist as a "Change Form" monster, so spawning the monster that spawns them seems like a clever enhancement)

The main benefit of this arrangement is it allows "Change Form" to be used as a grinding spell. You can go somewhere and easily make monsters that can make more monsters. This is useful for spell grinding, weapon grinding, and even a bit of level grinding if you acquire Luna early and spawn a bunch of Emberman or Basilisks (to make Eggatrices). This should make the spell more useful without making it too OP.

I tried some wackier stuff like the Shadow Xs, Tomato Man, and a few other things, but it appears "Change Form" can't be used to make those monsters, so this was the most balanced list I could come up with given the priorities being 1. only picking monsters that can spawn other monsters plus 2. leaving the Rabite entry in place because modifying that would be sacrilege.

Also, as you noted, it is not possible (at least not without altering the "Change Form" spell definition in a fairly work-intensive way) to make "Change Form" inherit the chest spawn rate of the new enemy while preserving the chest items of the original enemy. That is a neat idea though. I'm kinda sad it would be a hassle to implement.

Download "Multiplicative Change Form" here: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4679/
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 09:41:17 pm by kethinov »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #444 on: September 23, 2019, 02:28:14 am »
@kethinov

Ahh, I see.  I disliked the spawning monsters, because they're so annoying (prevents other nearby monsters from spawning), but you make a fair point, esp for magic grinding.  Basilisk seems a bit tough, since that guy is one of the high-level monsters (Change Form inherits everything, except HP/MP, so it'll do a lot of damage against you, and you won't be able to hurt it much).  Also, I feel like National Scar (spawns Imp) should replace one of the monsters (Green Drop?).  But National Scar is also pretty tough (maybe even tougher than Basilisk).

As I was playing around with Change Form, I found out which monsters you CANNOT transform to:
- All Eye Spys
- All Werewolfs
- All Magic Swords
- All Tomato Mans
- All Kimono Birds
- All Ghosts (not Gases)
- All Ninjas
- All Fierce Heads
- Polter Chair, Chess Knight, Spider Legs
- Armored Man, Terminator (Dark Knight works)
- Shape Shifter (other slimes work), Gremlin (Imp works), Heck Hound (other dogs work)

Here's my current list of monster (all different types and elements):
0x0E   Goblin Guard   Human      Earth <- Notice that I purposely avoided Goblin Lord to avoid spawning.
0x0F   Dark Funk   Gas/Ghost   Fire
0x10   Crawler      Insect/Metal   Dryad
0x12   Zombie      Undead/Demon   Dark
0x15   Nemesis Owl   Animal/Bird   Air
0x2D   Mimic Box   Plant/Fish   Luna <- Changed this to Dragon, since there's no normal Dragon type monsters.
0x33   Weepy Eye   Plant/Fish   Light
0x34   Shellblast   Slime/Lizard   Water

Here's another list of possible monsters (non-elemental, not even Luna/Dryad):
0x00   Rabite (or Silktail)
0x03   Chobin Hood (or Robin Foot)
0x08   Green Drop
0x0A   Blat
0x18   Steamed Crab
0x1B   Howler
0x23   Mystic Book
0x25   Mad Mallard

And here's my most unique one (1/8 chance that you get a tough enemy):
0x00   Rabite
0x00   Rabite
0x00   Rabite
0x00   Rabite
0x00   Rabite
0x00   Rabite
0x00   Rabite
0x3C   Needlion (this guy can be replaced with someone else though)

I thank you for your list.  I'm gonna ponder more, since it's a good list too (I'm replacing Rabite with Nation Scar though).

Indeed, I bet it's crazy complicated to inherit the changed monster's drop rate, while preserving the original drop items.  If you can somehow manage this, you'd pretty much be SoM Hack god.

Btw, have you checked your Later Midge Mallet patch?  I think I mentioned that it applies Early Midge Mallet.  At least, as a result (I don't know if the codes are different).  Can you check?

Heh.  I tried to have Shadow X1~3 drop the missing Glove/Axe orb... I thought they were treated like the normal enemies... I was wrong.  Damn.  How the hell am I gonna get the missing Orbs in Ancient City/Grand Palace? (Queue made a patch to farm the final Sword orb).  The only thing I can do is wait and hope (I know you mentioned that you may create a patch for the missing orbs).
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 04:38:30 am by hmsong »

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #445 on: September 23, 2019, 05:22:00 am »
I find the idea more unique Mimic box to be included in change form, with a 100% chest drop, it makes the spell more useful if you want to get certain equipment from monsters.

Of course that is if you manage to change your enemy into a mimic box, hence that's the downside of it.

While the enemies version of change form possibly turning your characters small or moogle.



As for making Lunar Magic more useful, going of the idea proposed by hmsong have two versions of it one for the enemies, other for the Sprite

Sprite's version - inflicts randomly one of the following statuses: transform (wont work on bosses), or all stat down on enemies, or all stat up on allies, or small amount of heal

NPC version - inflict one of the following: moogle+small on all your characters, or all stat up on own self, or all stat down on all your characters, or heals 999 hp to self.

I think this should be more or less fair enough.

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #446 on: September 23, 2019, 11:25:45 am »
@Queue  Finally.  FINALLY got new script to work without issues, in the ZPS.  Thank you so much for your patience, I will just put new entries in at the bottom, as you have described.  Because it just... works.  That's all I wanted for myself, in the short term anyway.

EDIT:  Had to Delete a lot of lines that I'm no longer sure were true...  :-\

Will come back later, when I have something of greater significance to say.  Cheers...  :beer:
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:57:49 am by zoolgremlin »
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kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #447 on: September 23, 2019, 08:02:55 pm »
I put up a new hack that makes "Lunar Magic" useful and deconflicts my "More Useful Evil Gate" hack with Queue's shadow saber. Now you can have both the shadow saber and a devastating gravity attack to use on bosses.

In short, I've moved the boss-afflicting gravity attack from "Evil Gate" to "Lunar Magic" while preserving Lunar Magic's original behavior when it is cast on something other than a boss.

This should make my "Lunar Magic" enhancement broadly compatible with the other enhancements others in this thread have been discussing because my code injection which forks the "Lunar Magic" code if the monster is a boss occurs before the random "Lunar Magic" effects are selected, so it should be possible to combine this "Lunar Magic" enhancement with the others proposed here.

Download "Lunar Magic Boss Gravity Attack" here: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4680/
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 09:42:23 pm by kethinov »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #448 on: September 23, 2019, 09:24:05 pm »
@Queue

These are some things I noticed while playing.

1. Nothing is weak to Luna nor Dryad spells.  Some enemies resist those spells (ex: Mega Crawler resists Burst spell), but they are not effective against the "opposite element" enemies (ex: Burst is not particularly strong against Marmablue, which is Luna element -- tested by making Gem Missile's PWR to 100, and it did the same damage).

2. Sabers don't seem to do any extra damage on non-strong/weak element enemies.  On [Saber_Elemental_Damage] patch description, it specifically says:
Quote
Note: Damage is always increased a little with a magic saber.
Could you please check?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 09:41:11 pm by hmsong »

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #449 on: September 23, 2019, 09:27:03 pm »
I put up a new hack that makes "Lunar Magic" useful and deconflicts my "More Useful Evil Gate" hack with Queue's shadow saber. Now you can have both the shadow saber and a devastating gravity attack to use on bosses.

In short, I've moved the boss-afflicting gravity attack from "Evil Gate" to "Lunar Magic" while preserving Lunar Magic's original behavior when it is cast on something other than a boss.

This should make my "Lunar Magic" enhancement broadly compatible with the other enhancements others in this thread have been discussing because my code injection which forks the "Lunar Magic" code if the monster is a boss occurs before the random "Lunar Magic" effects are selected, so it should be possible to combine this "Lunar Magic" enhancement with the others proposed here.
This sounds fun! I'm going to give it a try. Will this be worked into the SOMTurbo Utility?

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #450 on: September 23, 2019, 09:27:57 pm »
Until it is, you can just apply it to a ROM generated by Turbo and it should work fine.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #451 on: September 23, 2019, 09:37:07 pm »
@kethinov

Awesome.  I was really unsatisfied with Luna Magic (I made the spell lower all of target's stats, but even that was so... boring).  Making it do weird things against the normal enemies, while doing gravity damage on the bosses is brilliant.  Maybe you can make it do the Evil Gate animation/sound too, only on the bosses (although I suspect that'll probably be impossible).
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 09:43:49 pm by hmsong »

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #452 on: September 23, 2019, 09:46:51 pm »
I'm not quite sure how to do that. I suppose we'd have to add some kind of check in the code that selects the animation (which is in a totally different place from the spell definition code which applies the effects) to check if the target is a boss and apply a different animation if so, exclusively for the Lunar Magic spell. My guess is it would be a decent amount of work, but I haven't looked into it, so who knows.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #453 on: September 23, 2019, 10:27:41 pm »
Does anyone know where to what the address is for Shape Shifter's possible monster?  I want to play around with that.

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #454 on: September 23, 2019, 11:00:16 pm »
Yes, I looked into that once. I believe they are located here:

D0/9CF3: 2D ; mimic box
D0/9CFB: 00 ; rabite
D0/9D03: 40 ; eggplant man
D0/9D0B: 41 ; captain duck
D0/9D10: 35 ; beast zombie

I haven't tested altering those values, but I'm pretty sure that's what controls what Shape Shifter spawns.

I looked into it because I was curious if there might be an easy way to make it so he could spawn literally any monster, but I never completed the project in part because I discovered his AI whitelists those 5 monsters similar to how "Change Form" whitelists things, so rewriting the AI to spawn a larger set of possible monsters would take a bit of doing. I'm sure it could be done though, I just haven't gotten around to making the attempt.

But if you want to alter the whitelist of 5 to some other 5, that should be relatively straightforward and those should be the spots you need.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190920
« Reply #455 on: September 23, 2019, 11:29:52 pm »
@kethinov

Thank you.  My god, you, Queue, and zoolgremlin seem to have so much knowledge.  Incredible.

I'm gonna redo the monster list, and NOT include Eggplant Man.  That dude can be farmed for early Needle Helm and Watcher Ring.

September 23, 2019, 11:41:47 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
@zoolgremlin

I took a look at your updated Monster Drop Table.  I think you gave me WAY more credit that I deserve.  While it's true that I discovered what each of those bytes do, I didn't know about such fine detail.  It is you who deserve the most credit.

In any case, awesome.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 11:53:15 pm by hmsong »

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190908
« Reply #456 on: September 24, 2019, 12:00:16 am »
Most likely the chest issue in the Grand Palace you mention is due to the 3 enemy limit. Chests are an NPC, and in combat areas, the NPC limit is 3 (9 in non-combat areas like towns, which is primarily why towns have bad framerate). This is part of why I have Kethinov's Gaia's Navel chest off by default.

Can you explain this further?

Either:

1. You walk over there and the chest is already there, or

2. You walk over there and the chest isn't there. Clearing some monsters and then coming back causes the chest to spawn.

The fact that the chest appears intermittently is not something I consider a bug in that hack, as it is common for chests placed in combat zones to sometimes appear and sometimes not depending on how many monsters are around when you approach the spawn spot due to the 3 monster limit you mentioned.

Is there a bug I'm overlooking?

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #457 on: September 24, 2019, 12:19:40 am »
Version 2019-09-23:
https://ufile.io/icyp4s4u

Changes:
- Minor feature addition to ZPS Patcher, see note below
- Implemented Lunar_Magic_-_Celestial_Cascade; large changes to behavior based on mixture of suggestions, 3 instead of 8 random effects, all useful and offensive instead of the vanilla mess (its code needs to be optimized but wanted to get something out for testing)
- Implemented Burst_-_Health_Cost; removes mana cost and gives it 1/8 max health cost instead
- Implemented Lunar_Magic_-_Mana_Cost_Reduction; halves mana cost from 8 to 4, arguably fair for vanilla or modified Lunar Magic
- Changed Moon_Energy_-_Mana_Cost_Reduction to be Off by default
- Overhauled Turn Undead; can now damage bosses, ignores enemy's resistances, should now be bug free when healing enemies
- Fixed bug in Lunar Magic (standard, not the new variant) reimplementation in SSE
- Fixed bug in Day_Night_Cycle (related to sleeping in an inn)
- Fixed bug in Diverse_Chest_Traps (random traps generally messed up)
- Fixed bug in Audio\Different_Fortress_Boss_Music Relocalized compatibility fixup (this was entirely on my side and had been there for a while, result was likely no special music during Dread Slime fight)

Technical Changes:
- Bumped ZPS Patcher version from V0.18++ to V0.18+++
- Added optional debug output to ZPS Patcher; near the top of the ZPS file, under "[Options]" on line 8, add DEBUG (can be below or above FALSE). Do not change or remove the "FALSE" option. Upon applying a ZPS patch, a ZPS_Debug.log file will be created. Example:
Code: [Select]
[Options]
FALSE
DEBUG
[EndOptions]

The new debug log helped me catch the Day_Night_Cycle and Different_Fortress_Boss_Music bugs.



Can you explain this further?
While a tiny sample size, the only two times that I observed newbies playing where they had the Gaia's Navel chest on, they both died to the altered monsters, and neither ever saw the chest. Well beyond this small sample size for testing the chest, I've observed that taking the eastern route has been far more common than the narrow western path (apparently not everyone notices that it's an accessible route), so the altered monsters has been the primary sticking point. Anyway, two worst case scenarios (the harder monsters being problematic, and the player not even knowing there was a reward, let alone getting the reward for encountering them) in a short timespan meant I bumped it to off by default in the hopes that those changing patcher options will already know the game well enough to cope.



As has become the usual, will get to replies when I have the chance. Goodnight everybody.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 01:09:32 am by Queue »

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #458 on: September 24, 2019, 12:37:50 am »
Quote
@kethinov:  I put up a new hack that makes "Lunar Magic" useful and deconflicts my "More Useful Evil Gate" hack with Queue's shadow saber.

Glad to meet you at last.  Your new hack is quite interesting from a game-mechanic perspective.  I won't go into detail right now, but just to let you know this.  I intend to put reviews for some of your stuff, just been busy with other aspects of analyzing/hacking this game.  I will eventually do that, but I really admire what you've done with your patch series.  Have gotten a loooot of mileage out of the ones I've used.  Great work...  :happy:

Quote
@hmsong:
  • Nothing is weak to Luna nor Dryad spells.  Some enemies resist those spells, but they are not effective against the "opposite element" enemies.
  • Sabers don't seem to do any extra damage on non-strong/weak element enemies.  On [Saber_Elemental_Damage] patch description, it specifically says:  Damage is always increased a little with a magic saber.  Could you please check?
[/size][/font]

1:
Good to see you again.  What you say is correct, in pure Vanilla SoM.  Couple of points to note here...
 
There are not a whole lot of monsters with the Luna Element, Moon/Star (or the Lumina one, but that's another story).  The Dryad Element (Wood/Mana/Life/dunno!) is more frequently used (even on weak stuff like Lullabud) than Luna.  But in Vanilla, some blithering idiot put code in, that forcibly REMOVES weakness to Luna (which Dryad monsters should have) AND Dryad (which Luna monsters should have).  Good GODS, Square!  Could you at least PRETEND to think this stuff out, before you squirt-fart it all over the world?!  I rather doubt it...

Just to hammer the point home, for a full understanding this code ONLY removes the weaknesses, NOT the resistances.  What does this mean?  Well, basically quite a few monsters will take 1/2 damage from Burst in Vanilla, since quite a few monsters have the Dryad Element.  But Luna in Vanilla has NO damage spells, apart from Magic Absorb!  So that means, with only a few Luna monsters, only a few will take 1/2 MP-damage from Magic Absorb.

See the problem there?  Because I didn't, not until just recently anyway.

Activate the [Luna_And_Dryad_Weaknesses] option in Turbo to re-enable these weaknesses and keep the resistances, making the Elemental Wheel System 100% balanced.  It's a tremendously good patch, my word it is...  :laugh:[/size]



2:
This one I can easily answer.  The algorithm for weapon damage, and ONLY weapon damage, is coded to add a bonus to AttackPower, IF and ONLY IF, a Saber is present.  Mana Magic does not count, but the new Shadow Saber would.  The exact formula for SaberBonus doesn't matter right now, but I already know the way to make it bigger, if anyone wants that, and will explain it later on.  In a new document on Google Drive, I will put the code that's needed to alter that.

That's what "Damage is always increased a little with a magic saber" means.  Hope that helps you out...  :thumbsup:[/font]



Quote
hmsong:  I took a look at your updated Monster Drop Table.  I think you gave me WAY more credit that I deserve.

Ahaaah, not so!  It was your list that allowed me to reach an extraordinary insight, into the nature of the algorithm that determines Common VS Rare item drops.  I wouldn't have got there otherwise.  Full explanation coming soon, but I don't see why you shouldn't get the credit I have given you.  This is another time where somebody, not just yourself, got to this understanding before I did, so the credit is NOT mine, except for the one extra piece I added.  Which I'm not 100% sure about...

But I already get praised on this forum, it doesn't matter to me if anyone knows about my small additions, if any.  Whether that be inside or outside of the ROMhacking fora.

  • (Regrs has an account on here like zhaDe and deflaktor, but he stopped coming on to post after zhaDe's New Gameplay Improvement module was finalized, not sure where deflaktor has been all this time.  If it bothers any of them that I credit you partially with the Drop Table info, they can let me know exactly why it does.  Not worrying about it until it comes up.  IF it comes up...)

So, uhhh, you don't have to sell yourself short now.  We're making PROGRESS!  That's all I need to know...  way cool.  8)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 10:20:28 am by zoolgremlin »
If you try to fail, and succeed, what've you done?!

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190908
« Reply #459 on: September 24, 2019, 12:57:57 am »
Can you explain this further?

Either:

1. You walk over there and the chest is already there, or

2. You walk over there and the chest isn't there. Clearing some monsters and then coming back causes the chest to spawn.

The fact that the chest appears intermittently is not something I consider a bug in that hack, as it is common for chests placed in combat zones to sometimes appear and sometimes not depending on how many monsters are around when you approach the spawn spot due to the 3 monster limit you mentioned.

Is there a bug I'm overlooking?

I think this is vanilla bug.  In the Grand Palace where Sword Orb chest is, there are monsters.  It's usually Case 1, but sometimes Case 2 happens.  And sometimes (case 1 or 2), the chest is on the water part of the map near the bridge, meaning, you can't reach it.  So in those cases, you'd have to re-enter the room, and hope that it'll appear on the bridge (it usually works).

I've also seen it being spawned from Heck Hound (probably just randomly spawned where Heck Hound was).
See 6:37 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBYFElqDDaA

So, maybe you can just move it somewhere (or simply remove the enemies nearby).