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Author Topic: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects  (Read 151318 times)

CoolCatBomberMan

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #380 on: July 14, 2021, 10:58:01 pm »
Chicken Kinfe and team:

I'm a looong-time lurker here (I joined this community just before Demi released the FF2j translation), and just wanted to pop out and say kudos to the masterful job you've done with the Dragon Quest 1 patch I'm playing through, and I'm looking forward to tackling 2 and 3 next. I had a question about DQ1:

The NA release of Dragon Warrior had a bug where the Fighter's Ring/Warrior Ring did nothing at all. Do you know a) if this bug was in the original Japanese release, b) is this bug present in the Delocalized DQ1, c) if so, do you have any thoughts/opinions on fixing it?

Thanks for all of the time/energy you've spent on this project!

I thought the ring was only meant to serve as a joke? In Rimuldar, an NPC berates you for not wearing a ring, like a real man. Talk to him again with the ring equipped, and he berates you for wearing a ring, like some kind of sissy. I just recently beat the switch version, and the ring does absolutely nothing.

lilpuddy31

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #381 on: July 14, 2021, 11:08:57 pm »
From what I've researched about the ring, deep diving through the code of all the various versions on DW1/DQ1 have revealed the ring does absolutely nothing

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #382 on: July 15, 2021, 07:34:50 am »
From what I can gather, Holy Water in DQIV not only damages enemies vulnerable to the Expel spell, but rather, any enemy, really.
Fairy Water in DWIV only damages enemies vulnerable to the Expel spell.

Haven't heard that about Torneko's wife selling Holy Water before (although that might be because I haven't ever finished Torneko's chapter whenever I got to it.)
Seems like the Torneko's wife bit was just some random and inaccurate nonsense I read online the other day. As far as the effect of damaging all enemies, looks like it was possibly a bug in the Japanese version. I'd be curious to see how this was handled in the remakes as to get a sense of the intent. The US version of Dragon Warrior IV did have a few other obvious bugs fixed.

I thought the ring was only meant to serve as a joke? In Rimuldar, an NPC berates you for not wearing a ring, like a real man. Talk to him again with the ring equipped, and he berates you for wearing a ring, like some kind of sissy. I just recently beat the switch version, and the ring does absolutely nothing.
I agree with this, and the comment about there being nothing in the code or future versions indicating an intended benefit.


Maidentree

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #383 on: July 15, 2021, 05:38:11 pm »
Seems like the Torneko's wife bit was just some random and inaccurate nonsense I read online the other day. As far as the effect of damaging all enemies, looks like it was possibly a bug in the Japanese version. I'd be curious to see how this was handled in the remakes as to get a sense of the intent. The US version of Dragon Warrior IV did have a few other obvious bugs fixed.

From playing a bit of the remake, and using Holy Water in battle, I can verify that it does do a bit of damage to enemies (haven't tried all enemies, but I have thrown it at a handful)

eternalsage

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #384 on: July 16, 2021, 12:23:55 am »
I really like the majority of what you got going on here with 1, 2, and 3. Haven't played them in-depth (time is short atm) just a few hours of each. My only complaints are minor, in that I like the US names for the places and the modern spells. But hey, that's ok, because I really appreciate the effort, and its something I can't do, so don't consider this a complaint, so much as a thanks from someone with slightly different tastes. If there could be an optional patch to change those things back, that would be cool, but I get it if that is not feasible or wanted, given the stated purpose of the hacks otherwise.

Also, I think it would be neat to have the Japanese title screens. But again. no worries if that is beyond the scope of the project or just generally not desired, that is totally understandable. Thank you for all of your hard work!

nejimakipiyo

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #385 on: July 16, 2021, 08:05:34 am »
eternalsage, thank you for your feedback!

the US names for the places and the modern spells

We don't really agree with the translation direction the official guys took with naming things.

As far as location names go, the official translations kept some as their original (Japanese) name, and seemed to arbitrarily change others. Perhaps to fit the medieval theme they were going with.
For spell names, the modern ones have a similar initial approach to the Japanese spells (word + prefixes and suffixes) but theirs results in what we consider a silly sound.

Delocalized wouldn't really be Delocalized if we used official naming schemes, since those are a large part of what we're delocalizing.  :D Of course, we don't mind using official names in instances where we feel the team really nailed it.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #386 on: July 16, 2021, 09:47:39 am »
eternalsage, thank you for your feedback!

We don't really agree with the translation direction the official guys took with naming things.

As far as location names go, the official translations kept some as their original (Japanese) name, and seemed to arbitrarily change others. Perhaps to fit the medieval theme they were going with.
For spell names, the modern ones have a similar initial approach to the Japanese spells (word + prefixes and suffixes) but theirs results in what we consider a silly sound.

Delocalized wouldn't really be Delocalized if we used official naming schemes, since those are a large part of what we're delocalizing.  :D Of course, we don't mind using official names in instances where we feel the team really nailed it.
Yeah, totally made up translation elements just don't jibe with us unfortunately. Not that everything we do is always a 100% direct translation (that would produce all kinds of awkward results in English), but every choice we've been making reflects an attempt to be faithful to the Japanese. There have been some more conservative translations of the Japanese scripts in the past, but this is the only project we are aware of that has dispensed with all the made-up choices from the official localizations. That is kind of our main thing, and we wouldn't be true to our objectives by making compromises there.

Philosophically, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with a more adaptive approach to translations. People who love the adaptive approach already have some great options with the DQ series. We'd just rather cater to people who want a purely conservative approach, and we think it ultimately works pretty well for the material.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 11:00:55 am by Chicken Knife »

eternalsage

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #387 on: July 16, 2021, 12:57:30 pm »
That's cool. I can understand. I just feel like the newer spell names fit the more whimsical nature of the series a little better. But as you mentioned, I already have a lot of options to give me that, I just really like your text otherwise LOL. Regardless, you are doing a great job, and thank you for giving my favorite JRPG series the love it deserves! Final Fantasy is given too much attention, and DQ too little, great to even that out a little LOL.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #388 on: July 17, 2021, 10:10:46 am »
That's cool. I can understand. I just feel like the newer spell names fit the more whimsical nature of the series a little better.
I think the official spell names fit the contemporary localizations overall very well, because everything has that whimsical, silly, goofy kind of style. When you increase the pun usage from the japanese by 2000%, use all these over the top accents, have really fluffed up writing even when there isn't accents, I think the light hearted and silly style of those spell names fits perfectly.

I don't really agree they fit with our text, which has some fun or silly elements now and then per the Japanese, but is overall a lot more serious in nature.

The original Japanese spell names rarely sound silly to that audience. They sound exotic, mysterious, cool, powerful. That's what our native Japanese partner has conveyed to us. While we were impressed that the contemporary spell names structurally achieved some equivalency with the Japanese system with expanding prefixes and suffixes, the feeling was just far too different. Furthermore, the meaning in the official English names is generally a little more apparent than how the Japanese names worked. People complain sometimes that they look at ours and don't immediately know what they do, but that was an intended equivalency to the Japanese system. The player was supposed to get a new spell and say: hmmm what does this do? All that was intended was a hint.

PS: we decided to remove the spell name in game pics from the publish pages of these patches. Not that we aren't proud of them and want to bury them (far from the case), but we notice that people tend to look at those, get confronted by all these very different new names all at once, many of which not being immediately clear on their meaning or function, and they tend to make snap judgments. The right way to experience these spell names is in the games, one by one as you receive them or the enemies use them. Will be making those image edits soon.

Regardless, you are doing a great job, and thank you for giving my favorite JRPG series the love it deserves! Final Fantasy is given too much attention, and DQ too little, great to even that out a little LOL.
Strong agree. Even though I use a Final Fantasy handle and have done a couple Final Fantasy related hacks (mostly for the sake of my own OCD), we've focused on DQ because, yes, the franchise needed more love in comparison.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 10:36:23 am by Chicken Knife »

eternalsage

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #389 on: July 17, 2021, 12:26:02 pm »
Very cool. And your reasoning makes total sense. I definitively hate all the weird accents in the US games (although the puns are fun, lol) and any game in which you fight little slimes wearing knight helmets has got to be a little whimsical, the spell names do not need to be that place. The new place names are just harder for me to remember, not sounding like real places very much. I think the US place names managed to hit that "real place" sounds very well, which is a problem with many JRPGs.

Thanks for taking the time to talk with me about it! Are you planning on tackling PS1 DQ 4 or any of the later games in the series? I would love to have a single consistent style from beginning to end LOL. In the end, I really think that is closer to my REAL issue here. But again, even if its just the NES stuff, nothing but love and support for you guys. I appreciate your hard work and dedication no matter what your plans are for the future.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #390 on: July 17, 2021, 05:33:46 pm »
Thanks for taking the time to talk with me about it! Are you planning on tackling PS1 DQ 4 or any of the later games in the series? I would love to have a single consistent style from beginning to end LOL. In the end, I really think that is closer to my REAL issue here. But again, even if its just the NES stuff, nothing but love and support for you guys. I appreciate your hard work and dedication no matter what your plans are for the future.
There's been talk of DQ4 PS1, but the people working on the technical end of that seem to have slowed down. I've privately played around with DQ5 SNES a little, nejimakipiyo has dabbled with Dragon Quest Monsters II, and we recently initiated groundwork for DQI&II SNES based on the bug fixes.

I agree that the new naming systems become a lot more appealing when there are a number of games available where you can use them. We will be moving forward slowly through the series, where we will tend to prioritize things that require less extensive technical expertise, or where we have partners handling that end of things, as we can move faster that way and spend more time doing what we love--working on translation.

And with the Japanese style names being a little less memorable, perhaps that's true for DQ1 & DQ2, where towns tended to have some exotic names in Japanese. The localizations bring about clear ideas in comparison like Hauksness vs Domdora or Lianport/Rippleport vs Rupugana. But again, the Japanese names were intended to sound strange / exotic to the audience. We are reproducing that intention.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 08:11:52 pm by Chicken Knife »

Cavery210

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #391 on: July 18, 2021, 06:03:04 pm »
This might help you. It has transcripts for every single line in Dragon Quest IV and VI. https://nayukaaaaa.nomaki.jp/wp/
Here's a Dragon Quest 5 transcript: http://light37.web.fc2.com/dragon/dq5/dq5story.htm

Willo567

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #392 on: August 08, 2021, 05:45:36 pm »
This is a great project you're working on! Out of curiosity, would it be possible to replace the U.S. title screens with their Japanese equivalent, or is that technically infeasible?

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest Delocalized Projects
« Reply #393 on: August 09, 2021, 01:35:15 pm »
This might help you. It has transcripts for every single line in Dragon Quest IV and VI. https://nayukaaaaa.nomaki.jp/wp/
Here's a Dragon Quest 5 transcript: http://light37.web.fc2.com/dragon/dq5/dq5story.htm
Thank you! These may be useful.

This is a great project you're working on! Out of curiosity, would it be possible to replace the U.S. title screens with their Japanese equivalent, or is that technically infeasible?
I think I elaborated somewhere above that I'd like to include options for this at some point. Doing these should be feasible, but like most other things with hacking, would be a lot of work. If anyone created stand-alone hacks to restore the original Japanese title screens, I'd be sure to include them as options with credit.

@all

Someone brought a question to my attention with DQ3 Delocalized having to do with a disappearing clone of a female greeter in Baharata. When you first visit, there are two purple haired / pink dressed females saying "Welcome to the town of Baharata.", but after you rescue Tania and Gupta from the kidnappers, there will be only one girl saying that. A few questions come to mind. Is this normal behavior for the original game, or did we somehow introduce this issue? If it was original, would this have been intentional, or should it be treated as a bug, fixed by removing one of the greeters? I'm curious if anyone can attest to whether this was in the original game. Otherwise, I'll have to test it at some point soon.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 02:07:37 pm by Chicken Knife »