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Author Topic: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized  (Read 98289 times)

nejimakipiyo

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #260 on: September 18, 2020, 12:53:20 pm »
One last question in this confusing post. I've heard that sometimes Japanese text needs to be read out loud to get the fuller context. How would that compare or be expressed in the English localizations?

I'm going to let Chicken Knife answer the rest, but as for this particular question, I think this would mainly apply to wordplay in Japanese. With most of the dialogue, you can just read in Japanese in your head as you would in English. (This is how I usually play the games lately.)

The early DQ games were more serious in tone, and of course had their share of humour but mainly in the form of puff puff and other circumstantial jokes than direct wordplay or puns. So we haven't done much with wordplay yet, aside from a few monster names. In these few cases, we've always tried to come up with an equivalent and relevant wordplay that sounds snappy in English. The intent is not to make a 1:1 literal translation, but to deliver the intent and essence of the meaning to the players.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #261 on: September 18, 2020, 01:07:50 pm »
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I heard that DQ4 NES Japan was playful but most of it got lost in the translation.
I can't speak with any real confidence on this until we begin working on it, so as of now, my main frame of reference is the Legends of Localization article I linked.

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I also read a bit about the DQ7 translation and it surprised me some bit. Loved that game for each mini-story, and that it's so impossibly filled with never-ending text. Never tried any of the modern remakes though.
This is certainly an interesting article. I took an initial look at it, as did nejimakipiyo, and it would seem that the contemporary localization fares rather well here. I look forward to studying it in greater depth.

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Are the MSX versions of DQ1+2 worth dissecting? And I know that the SNES series was translated (DQ1+2 remix, DQ3 remix, DQ5, most of DQ6, Torneko) but any chance of a revisit? Hearsay told me that #3 could use a better rewrite.
My impression of the MSX versions is that the main difference is jerky scrolling, along with some questionable new content involving the young Princess of Moonbrooke in DQ2. Working with these games isn't a priority for me, and I don't consider them definitive in any way, but they are an interesting curiosity.

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I really should replay the NES (and maybe GBC) vanilla versions once more so I can submit a fair on-site review with judgment in your favor.
That's very kind of you. Reviews are much appreciated. To make it easier for you to do direct comparisons, I'm willing to send extracted copies of the original scripts along with copies of our finished insert scripts, allowing you to make a very direct & comprehensive comparison. You'd have to filter through a bit of technical gobble-de-gook in the documents, but it should be mostly workable. Let me know if you want me to pm you some links.

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Okay. One extra question. I'm assuming nothing got cut out from your work so far (1,2) in terms of space or visual limitations and it's basically done and dusted, ready to archive for posterity? Otherwise I'd like to hold off on finishing DQ2; don't want to miss anything extra.
I'd say that, as of the recent big text revision published a couple updates back, I don't believe that there is anything left that is missing from the Japanese version. The same holds true for DQ3, which will be published shortly. The initial release of DQ3 will reflect the same volume of editing and overall refinement that it took us a couple years of revisions and updates to achieve with DQ1 & DQ2. In fact, of the two, the one I need to update again now is DQ1, where we determined that Elven Flute is a much better translation than Fairy Flute. But I also want a new bug fix to an issue in the existing game to be included in that update.


« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 02:15:41 pm by Chicken Knife »

ZichzMaster

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #262 on: September 19, 2020, 04:56:15 pm »
Does this mean you are considering doing the super famicom version of VI? I would love to have a fully functional English version of that

CoolCatBomberMan

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #263 on: September 20, 2020, 06:23:56 pm »
Does this mean you are considering doing the super famicom version of VI? I would love to have a fully functional English version of that

From what I've read on other threads, it's definitely on the table, and if people with the right know-how join in, that opens the possibility for PSX-onwards translations.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #264 on: September 20, 2020, 06:47:00 pm »
Yep. The support we receive will have a big impact on how far we get with our intended translation work. For instance, I've been spending months now mostly just dealing with the hacking related to fixing bugs and decensoring backgrounds with DQ3. I've learned some cool stuff along the way, but the hacking side of this doesn't come fast to me. It will never be my forte. Aside from the occasional big breakthrough, I'm slow as molasses. This is in stark contrast to the aggressive and consistent pace we achieve with our translation work. I'd honestly love the opportunity to just concentrate on the writing and making sure that it all gets inserted perfectly. Something like that arrangement may be on the table for DQ4 PSX. We shall see.

ZichzMaster

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #265 on: September 23, 2020, 06:28:06 pm »
So after dq3 gets released how long do you think dq 4 will take?

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #266 on: September 24, 2020, 11:55:25 am »
It's hard for me to predict these things. I was projecting that DQ3 would have been already done months ago. Also, with DQ4, there's a possibility we will work on the PSX version before the Famicom version, with more people involved on the hacking end of it. If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably start chipping away at doing a direct translation of the Japanese Famicom game (unlike working with the localized versions as a base like we did in the past). I could provide realistic time-frames if we were just talking about the translation work, but not when new hacking endeavors are involved.

ZichzMaster

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #267 on: September 27, 2020, 05:31:09 pm »
Ok I understand I’d rather have a well made product than a ok rushed one. Also if you need a tester I own an everdrive for the nes and famicom and a psx capable of playing burnt game’s if you need a real hardware tester

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #268 on: September 29, 2020, 09:04:42 am »
I'l keep that in mind, thank you.

zarkon

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #269 on: September 29, 2020, 12:17:11 pm »
I'd be super excited by a translation of the PSX version of DQIV.  The DQ DS version localisations all have weird accents that could be called at best stereotypical, and at worst....you know.

I'd imagine translating it would take quite a while, as DQIV PSX has party chat iirc.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #270 on: September 29, 2020, 12:37:42 pm »
Yep. Looking forward to doing away with those. The main speech variations that appear in the Japanese games are things like:

Formal speech for people like kings and courtiers

Rural speech for farming village types

Tough guy speech for prisoners, berserkers

Exuberant child speech

Old timer speech

That will all be preserved accordingly.

Working out the initial translation draft certainly takes time, but my 5 or so subsequent rounds of revision are the biggest culprit. Finishing the 5th and hopefully final round on DQ3 now.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 01:07:08 pm by Chicken Knife »

Vector 67

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #271 on: October 02, 2020, 01:05:10 pm »
These made up spell names ruin these re-translations. Keep DW spell names or just bring Japanese names (Gira, Begirama, Begiragon etc). Or make optional patches for everything.

CoolCatBomberMan

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #272 on: October 02, 2020, 04:51:23 pm »
These made up spell names ruin these re-translations. Keep DW spell names or just bring Japanese names (Gira, Begirama, Begiragon etc). Or make optional patches for everything.

Nothing's ruined, jerk. The Japanese names are only partially made-up, being derived from actual Japanese words. These retranslations use their own names in order to translate that same concept into English. That's the point of the retranslations at their core: attempting to recreate a Japanese player's experience for English speakers.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #273 on: October 02, 2020, 10:14:25 pm »
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That's the point of the retranslations at their core: attempting to recreate a Japanese player's experience for English speakers.
We appreciate you getting it.

caikelm

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #274 on: October 06, 2020, 12:44:57 pm »
Just found out about these translations.
Guys, I have absolutely no words to describe how amazed I am, really. The new method of translating the spell names was absolutely genius and it's hard to go back to the original names, at least for me.
I've seen you guys are planning to re-translate a lot of games in the future.
But I just have to ask.

Is there any chance of you guys re-translating (or actually just translating) Dragon Quest III for the SNES some time in the future?
I know it already has a nice translation patch out there, but it has some weird things and bugs and it's certainly not getting an update any time soon because it's very old.

It would be unbelievably amazing to have that version of DQ3 without those bugs and with a fresh translation and the new spell names you guys came up with. It would be the definitive version of that game to me.

I know it's probably not in your plans, but please please at least consider it after you've tackled the other games.

Anyway, thanks for these amazing translations and keep up the good work!

zarkon

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #275 on: October 07, 2020, 06:04:17 am »
The DQIII SFC translation certainly wasn't perfect.  I remember a Japanese fluent person posting an example of the translation some years ago which they were particularly unhappy with, of an NPC conversation where in the Japanese version it had a Yes/No dialogue choice that was slightly lewd.

In the English patch, the Yes/No option was removed and the only dialogue you got was super tasteless (in kind of the same way as the infamous Arche/Tales tiger thing).

I also remember reading that the III patch can crash and corrupt the save if the hero in not in the lead when you save the game, though I never changed the lead so didn't experience the crash/corruption personally.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #276 on: October 07, 2020, 07:00:17 am »
Thank you for the super positive feedback. And yes, I have similar thoughts on DQ3 SFC translation. I've suffered through it a couple times, but the hacking feels like it was abandoned at the beta stage based on the bugs and unfinished details I've encountered. As far as the translation, there were times when we wanted to check out additional interpretations of lines for our DQ3 NES retranslation and used it for direct comparison. What we found is that the Japanese comprehension of those translators wasn't the best, and that the censored, original localization of the NES version was a good deal more accurate. So yes, we'd love to fix it up.

For better or worse, I've had some life adjustments lately including a new, much higher responsibility job, among other things. I struggle to find the brainpower and energy to work through the more complex aspects of the hacking, but I'm still chipping away at it slowly. I don't know what that all means for all the future stuff I want to do, but I have no plans of giving up.

zarkon

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #277 on: October 07, 2020, 10:13:04 am »
Take it easy.  Burn-out succcccccccccccccccccks.

Vector 67

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #278 on: October 07, 2020, 03:08:14 pm »
That's the point of the retranslations at their core: attempting to recreate a Japanese player's experience for English speakers.
You just make no sense with these arbitrary changes to spells.

"This hack's goal is to revert everything back to original japanese versions, BUT spell names gonna be completely fanfic-tier nonsense that will alienate everyone who played DQ games before and misinform people who never played them before."

For whom you make those rom hacks? Definitely not for the old or new fans of the series.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #279 on: October 08, 2020, 08:38:48 pm »
You just make no sense with these arbitrary changes to spells.

"This hack's goal is to revert everything back to original japanese versions, BUT spell names gonna be completely fanfic-tier nonsense that will alienate everyone who played DQ games before and misinform people who never played them before."

For whom you make those rom hacks? Definitely not for the old or new fans of the series.
You can check out the readme for an explanation of the spell name methodology. There was nothing arbitrary about it. But I get the sense that complaining rather than understanding is your priority. If you are aggressively loyal to the conventions of the original or contemporary localizations, these projects are not for you. Keep on scrolling.